Question Wraith Spire or AIO?

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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Specifically a Rosewill 240mm vs the Wraith Spire that came with the Ryzen 7 2700 I'll be using.

I've got parts to upgrade my current PC and since I only need a new case and fans (will be upgrading the GPU from a 1050ti to a Quadro P2000 in the near future) I figured I'd take advantage of ther Mystic Light in the B450 Gaming Carbon Pro and do a full build for the first time.

I'll be using the matching fans and was thinking a Phanteks 350 case.

Reviews said the Spire cooler works well, but I figured if it's beneficial I may as well add an AIO while I'm putting it together. Thoughts or opinions?

Second question- I was figuring on two fans in the front of the case, one exhaust. Does the AIO replace those fans or is it in addition to the two front fans. I know I want to have a positive pressure setup.

I was hoping I could mount the AIO vertically to the right of the motherboard, but the case specs say radiator location is right behind/against/in place of the front fans.

Thanks,
Tim
 
Aug 23, 2019
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If no overcloking the wraith air cooler will do fine. If u look at reviews wster cooler xs air cooler noctua single fan beats an expensive corsair watercooler.
 
Specifically a Rosewill 240mm vs the Wraith Spire that came with the Ryzen 7 2700 I'll be using.

I've got parts to upgrade my current PC and since I only need a new case and fans (will be upgrading the GPU from a 1050ti to a Quadro P2000 in the near future) I figured I'd take advantage of ther Mystic Light in the B450 Gaming Carbon Pro and do a full build for the first time.

I'll be using the matching fans and was thinking a Phanteks 350 case.

Reviews said the Spire cooler works well, but I figured if it's beneficial I may as well add an AIO while I'm putting it together. Thoughts or opinions?

Second question- I was figuring on two fans in the front of the case, one exhaust. Does the AIO replace those fans or is it in addition to the two front fans. I know I want to have a positive pressure setup.

I was hoping I could mount the AIO vertically to the right of the motherboard, but the case specs say radiator location is right behind/against/in place of the front fans.

Thanks,
Tim
What case will this go into? a case designed for an AIO in front wouldn't need front fans as fans that come with the AIO works well for that. But you really should have a case with at least two exhaust fans too, in top/rear, to pull the heated air out and not leave the GPU and VRM to overheat.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Well that's a bonus to going with an AIO from the start of a new build, you take the stock case fans and move them to intake or exhaust, the aio does the other. With an air cooler upgrade, you almost always still need to purchase a couple more case fans to get relatively decent airflow.
 

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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Why not an air cooler?
Air cooler as in the Wraith Spire? That's what I'm tying to figure out. Reviews said (and I saw it on video) the new Spire cooler is significantly louder since it spins 1000rpm faster than the original. Reviews on the AIO is that's it's nearly silent.

My thinking is anything to help keep the CPU temp is a good thing. I figured when I'm streaming, recording, rendering video or doing CAD work the water cooler will keep thermals down and the less fan noise the better while recording video/audio.
 

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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What case will this go into? a case designed for an AIO in front wouldn't need front fans as fans that come with the AIO works well for that. But you really should have a case with at least two exhaust fans too, in top/rear, to pull the heated air out and not leave the GPU and VRM to overheat.
The case is the phanteks 350 I linked to. That's what I was thinking...moving the front fans to top exhaust.
 

Remeca

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Aug 30, 2019
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I wouldn't go for an AIO, but it depends on what you'll be doing with your PC. If you're just gaming, running stock boost speeds, and have adequate airflow, air is fine. It's more reliable, will last longer, and is generally cheaper. AIO are good if you're going to be overclocking, and/or running CPU intensive tasks most of the time, but has more points of failure, and should probably be replaced not long after warranty expires.
 

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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Well that's a bonus to going with an AIO from the start of a new build, you take the stock case fans and move them to intake or exhaust, the aio does the other. With an air cooler upgrade, you almost always still need to purchase a couple more case fans to get relatively decent airflow.
I am getting three additional fans, so it would be 2 intake (AIO) and three exhaust. Fans have low, medium and high which I could control them all together or leave the AIO and three fans separate so I could try positive, neutral and negative pressure and see which works best.

I was thinking positive pressure to keep dust out but the case has 3 removable filters sho I'm really not worried as long as I get the heat out. It would be negative pressure with all 5 fans working in sync being they are all the same fan.
 

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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I wouldn't go for an AIO, but it depends on what you'll be doing with your PC. If you're just gaming, running stock boost speeds, and have adequate airflow, air is fine. It's more reliable, will last longer, and is generally cheaper. AIO are good if you're going to be overclocking, and/or running CPU intensive tasks most of the time, but has more points of failure, and should probably be replaced not long after warranty expires.
No gaming but streaming, recording, editing rendering video and CAD work.

I'll probably just get it and try the Spire first then the AIO, and see how it shakes out.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Pressure changes. It's more than just the sum of cfm in/out as to whether a case is positive or negative. A rear exhaust fan will draw from the nearest available source. If the intake fans aren't producing overwhelming cfm, the nearest available source for the exhaust fan is the top fan port or the gaps and grills next to the fan. So at idle, almost all cases are negative, regardless of fan size/amounts. That'll change as fans pick up speeds, cfm, sp and will depend on the ability of the specific fans.

It's very possible to be negative at idle and positive at gaming temps.

Part of the issue with all this is the fans themselves. You very rarely find a fan performance curve for a fan. All you'll get is maximum output stats. So a fan can do 76 cfm and 2.4mm/H²O at 2000rpm. That's nice, but useless when it's an intake fan that rarely sees above 1200 rpm. And it's on a curve, so it's not a linear progression, the fan then would be more likely at @ 30cfm and 0.8mm/H²O at 1200rpm, less than 50% output for just over 50% rpm.

So even the math to figure out positive/negative pressure doesn't work, not enough specifics and too many variables.

The only way to tell, realistically, is over time. You'd have to run a base amount at the same level for several months and see how much dust the pc accumulated and where. Then run at your higher settings for the same alloted time and see what the dust said, and at a lower setting for the same and do a comparison between the 3. Take about a year or close to it.

With constant changes in loads, cfm, dust accumulated will average out the same, so won't be usable.

So change up speeds according to temp needs, forget about positive/negative effects as they are not much more than a price to be paid for you using the pc.
 
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TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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Pressure changes. It's more than just the sum of cfm in/out as to whether a case is positive or negative. A rear exhaust fan will draw from the nearest available source. If the intake fans aren't producing overwhelming cfm, the nearest available source for the exhaust fan is the top fan port or the gaps and grills next to the fan. So at idle, almost all cases are negative, regardless of fan size/amounts. That'll change as fans pick up speeds, cfm, sp and will depend on the ability of the specific fans.

It's very possible to be negative at idle and positive at gaming temps.

Part of the issue with all this is the fans themselves. You very rarely find a fan performance curve for a fan. All you'll get is maximum output stats. So a fan can do 76 cfm and 2.4mm/H²O at 2000rpm. That's nice, but useless when it's an intake fan that rarely sees above 1200 rpm. And it's on a curve, so it's not a linear progression, the fan then would be more likely at @ 30cfm and 0.8mm/H²O at 1200rpm, less than 50% output for just over 50% rpm.

So even the math to figure out positive/negative pressure doesn't work, not enough specifics and too many variables.

The only way to tell, realistically, is over time. You'd have to run a base amount at the same level for several months and see how much dust the pc accumulated and where. Then run at your higher settings for the same alloted time and see what the dust said, and at a lower setting for the same and do a comparison between the 3. Take about a year or close to it.

With constant changes in loads, cfm, dust accumulated will average out the same, so won't be usable.

So change up speeds according to temp needs, forget about positive/negative effects as they are not much more than a price to be paid for you using the pc.
Good info! Yes, that's what I was planning on doing... running the fans based on temps.

I'm pretty OCD about dust anyway Ann's go in the case at least inve or twice a year and clean everything up, so you're right it really won't matter. This build should be far less maintenance regarding dust considering the case has 3 dust filters, although I know dust comes in from any other openings. I was considering using silicone or weatherstripping to seal areas other than where air is supposed to go through. I'm curious as to whether or not, or how much of a difference it makes when air only flows through intended locations.

The other case I was considering is a Cooler Master MasterBox Q500L. I like the full magnetic filters. It's king's of a weird setup with the PSU at front, top, vertical and no external access to on/off switch, but it's pretty compact, has holes all throughout so fans could basically go anywhere. Specs say 2 intake fans go on the bottom, one exhaust in rear and radiator at bottom or top...

Then the other is the Phanteks Eclipse P350X. I've been debating back and forth all day, but just now realizing no external access to PSU on/off switch basically makes the decision easier.
https://www.newegg.com/black-cooler-master-masterbox-q500l-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811119370?item=N82E16811119370
 

LordVile

Admirable
Air cooler as in the Wraith Spire? That's what I'm tying to figure out. Reviews said (and I saw it on video) the new Spire cooler is significantly louder since it spins 1000rpm faster than the original. Reviews on the AIO is that's it's nearly silent.

My thinking is anything to help keep the CPU temp is a good thing. I figured when I'm streaming, recording, rendering video or doing CAD work the water cooler will keep thermals down and the less fan noise the better while recording video/audio.
I mean like a Noctua or Be quiet tower cooler
 

xravenxdota

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Aug 26, 2017
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First thing i changed after i built my r5 2600 was to get an AIO.I don't overclock but i find amd stock coolers on the lower end parts really horrible(my gaming temp was 82c)Get a good Aircooler tbh i would but no space in case.Specially noctua are really a great cooler
 

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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I mean like a Noctua or Be quiet tower cooler
Now that you mention Be Quiet it got me looking at their cases, etc. The air coolers are all for around 100 TDP and higher, which mine is 65 so it might be overkill? Although the sound issue, especially used with their fans and case, would be ther greatest benefit.
 

LordVile

Admirable
Now that you mention Be Quiet it got me looking at their cases, etc. The air coolers are all for around 100 TDP and higher, which mine is 65 so it might be overkill? Although the sound issue, especially used with their fans and case, would be ther greatest benefit.
When you overclock it’ll be higher and the higher the TDP of the cooler the quieter and cooler you’ll
run. Remember Be quiet cares are for silence so they can get rather warm inside
 
Now that you mention Be Quiet it got me looking at their cases, etc. The air coolers are all for around 100 TDP and higher, which mine is 65 so it might be overkill? Although the sound issue, especially used with their fans and case, would be ther greatest benefit.
TDP rating is as confusing and misleading a spec with AMD as it is with Intel. Just look at it that a cooler with 100W TDP rating can't be overkill if it's helping a processor boost longer before limiting itself based on thermals.
 

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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When you overclock it’ll be higher and the higher the TDP of the cooler the quieter and cooler you’ll
run. Remember Be quiet cares are for silence so they can get rather warm inside
I was considering trying overclocking, so good to note. I have the Be Quiet case in the background and have been considering a few Corsair cases (175R, 220T, SPEC-06), a Raidmax Enigma S14-TB, a DeepCool Matrexx 70, a Phanteks Eclipse P600S or a Cooler Master MasterCase H500M.

I can't decide- for different reasons I like the DeepCool (glass insertion and one button release, 2 vs 4 screw mount, glass and filters) and Raidmax (number of fan options, AIO side mount, top PSU), the P600S with silent/ max airflow option, and the H500M for many reasons like bigger fans (intake and exhaust) and other options. But I tend to like things brand matching and being I already have Corsair PSU, Dominator Platinum RGB RAM, fans and will get the AIO...but function is more important. The Raidmax case also has a bottom cutout for PSU fan, which I'd go to an RGB PSU. :p If I got the H500M I would probably get the Cooler Master AIO and fans. From what I've seen and reviews I've read Corsair seems to be the popular RGB product and fans ate probably more reliable with a 5 year warranty.

Today I received 3 Corsair ML120 fans and was thinking either the Corsair H110i or 115i with the additional ML 120/140 fans for push/pull (performance plus RGB inside) to mount on the front (or side in Raidmax) then two ML120 up top (in place of two top fans Raidmax would allow 3 intake in bottom, 2 in front with AIO on side and one intake into PSU shroud...so 4 more ML120's) and one ML120 exhaust.

I see this image in a lot of pictures of cases, with the fans on a regular AIO on the inside. It doesn't look to me like it could be a push/pull configuration (not enough room for front fans), meaning the fans wouldn't be intake...correct? It doesn't seem correct, but maybe I'm wrong?

I'm just not sure what's enough and what is overkill. Another poster who doesn't game but edits videos with the same Ryzen processor and B450 Gaming Carbon Pro said the Spire alone keeps temp below 45 degrees, which seems low to me.
 
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TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
119
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TDP rating is as confusing and misleading a spec with AMD as it is with Intel. Just look at it that a cooler with 100W TDP rating can't be overkill if it's helping a processor boost longer before limiting itself based on thermals.
Thanks! That is basically what I was thinking.
 

LordVile

Admirable
I was considering trying overclocking, so good to note. I have the Be Quiet case in the background and have been considering a few Corsair cases (175R, 220T, SPEC-06), a Raidmax Enigma S14-TB, a DeepCool Matrexx 70, a Phanteks Eclipse P600S or a Cooler Master MasterCase H500M.

I can't decide- for different reasons I like the DeepCool (glass insertion and one button release, 2 vs 4 screw mount, glass and filters) and Raidmax (number of fan options, AIO side mount, top PSU), the P600S with silent/ max airflow option, and the H500M for many reasons like bigger fans (intake and exhaust) and other options. But I tend to like things brand matching and being I already have Corsair PSU, Dominator Platinum RGB RAM, fans and will get the AIO...but function is more important. The Raidmax case also has a bottom cutout for PSU fan, which I'd go to an RGB PSU. :p If I got the H500M I would probably get the Cooler Master AIO and fans. From what I've seen and reviews I've read Corsair seems to be the popular RGB product and fans ate probably more reliable with a 5 year warranty.

Today I received 3 Corsair ML120 fans and was thinking either the Corsair H110i or 115i with the additional ML 120/140 fans for push/pull (performance plus RGB inside) to mount on the front (or side in Raidmax) then two ML120 up top (in place of two top fans Raidmax would allow 3 intake in bottom, 2 in front with AIO on side and one intake into PSU shroud...so 4 more ML120's) and one ML120 exhaust.

I see this image in a lot of pictures of cases, with the fans on a regular AIO on the inside. It doesn't look to me like it could be a push/pull configuration (not enough room for front fans), meaning the fans wouldn't be intake...correct? It doesn't seem correct, but maybe I'm wrong?

I'm just not sure what's enough and what is overkill. Another poster who doesn't game but edits videos with the same Ryzen processor and B450 Gaming Carbon Pro said the Spire alone keeps temp below 45 degrees, which seems low to me.
I personally like NZXT cases because the new H series have good airflow, great cable management and in the larger H500/700 (I have a H200) you can fit just about anything you want in there.
You can make a fan an intake without push pull you just have the fans orientated the right way.

I don’t know how good Corsair fans are I’m a be quiet fan boy I’ll admit but I really don’t see the point going AIO on Ryzen, it’s expensive, a pain to set up, you have to get a 240mm or bigger for it to be practical at all and it’s louder and had a higher fail rate compared to air.

yeah 45 is low I average 60-65 with an OC 2600 with a dark rock slim cooler, though it is on the silent preset.
 

TimH77

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I personally like NZXT cases because the new H series have good airflow, great cable management and in the larger H500/700 (I have a H200) you can fit just about anything you want in there.
You can make a fan an intake without push pull you just have the fans orientated the right way.

I don’t know how good Corsair fans are I’m a be quiet fan boy I’ll admit but I really don’t see the point going AIO on Ryzen, it’s expensive, a pain to set up, you have to get a 240mm or bigger for it to be practical at all and it’s louder and had a higher fail rate compared to air.

yeah 45 is low I average 60-65 with an OC 2600 with a dark rock slim cooler, though it is on the silent preset.
I was considering an NZXT 500 (500, 500i and 500 Elite) series when I first started looking. The aesthetics caught my eye.

I'm wanting top, bottom and front easily removable filters and they don't have one on top. I like the magnetic filters I can just remove and clean instead of dust falling in the top exhaust when the computer is off (I guess I could just cover it like I'm currently doing).

I was also thinking at least two top fans, but if I went all 140mm the H510 and H510 Elite would work.

I don't like on the H500 the tempered glass attaches with 4 screws instead of a channel or hinges.

I do like the Elite and would consider it if the fans are worth keeping, at least to start with? Did your case come with any NZXT fans or have you used them?
 
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LordVile

Admirable
I was considering an NZXT 500 (500, 500i and 500 Elite) series when I first started looking. The aesthetics caught my eye.

I'm wanting top, bottom and front easily removable filters and they don't have one on top. I like the magnetic filters I can just remove abs clean instead of dust falling in the top exhaust when the computer is off (I guess I could just cover it like I'm current doing).

I was also thinking at meat two top fans, but if I went all 140mm the H510 and H510 Elite would work.

I don't like on the H500 the tempered glass attaches with 4 screws instead of a channel or hinges.

I do like the Elite and would consider it if the fans are worth keeping, at least to start with? Did your case come with any NZXT fans or have you used them?
The top fan of a H200i, so I'm guessing it's the same for the other models, is kind of fixed to the fan where you have to unscrew the fan to get it off. Though it's normally an exhaust so there shouldn't be much dust there.

Mine came with 2 fans of which I still have one installed but I'm a bit of a fan snob so I shoved one of my spares in the front, removed the top fan because it interfered with my CPU cooler (ITX problems) and the one in the back is doing fine for now until I get around to swapping it. But as far as included fans go they're decent and won't need swapping unless you're putting in RGB ones or higher performance ones like from Noctua or Be quiet. I'd rate them over fans that came with a H80i AIO I had about 18 months ago.

Honestly the panel is fine. It actually sits on a ledge in the case so it stays in without screws and isn't hard to take on and off.

Also the i models have a built in Fan controller which controls the built in RGB strip at the top of the case if you're interested in that, though you do have to use CAM. Has 3 slots for fans one of which has a daisy chain cable for multiple fans off one header and runs off a USB 2 header on your board.
 

TimH77

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Jul 21, 2017
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The top fan of a H200i, so I'm guessing it's the same for the other models, is kind of fixed to the fan where you have to unscrew the fan to get it off. Though it's normally an exhaust so there shouldn't be much dust there.

Mine came with 2 fans of which I still have one installed but I'm a bit of a fan snob so I shoved one of my spares in the front, removed the top fan because it interfered with my CPU cooler (ITX problems) and the one in the back is doing fine for now until I get around to swapping it. But as far as included fans go they're decent and won't need swapping unless you're putting in RGB ones or higher performance ones like from Noctua or Be quiet. I'd rate them over fans that came with a H80i AIO I had about 18 months ago.

Honestly the panel is fine. It actually sits on a ledge in the case so it stays in without screws and isn't hard to take on and off.

Also the i models have a built in Fan controller which controls the built in RGB strip at the top of the case if you're interested in that, though you do have to use CAM. Has 3 slots for fans one of which has a daisy chain cable for multiple fans off one header and runs off a USB 2 header on your board.
Weird, I swear earlier I saw 4 screws holding the tempered glass panel for at least one model. Lol

Thre H510 Elite, which comes with RGB fans, is the one I would get...but they don't work with MSI Mystic Light to sync my other RGB components. I'm still confused on cases. Haha

Other than that,I just posted asking for advice putting everything together. Specifically, can I do or test anything before installing components (check for DoA,etc).

If you have a couple minutes I'd value your thoughts or opinion. Here is the post- https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/upgrade-pre-install-advice-testing-for-doa-parts.3526417/
 
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