Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (
More info?)
Hand-of-Omega wrote:
> As much as I enjoyed last weeks' day-by-day look at the workings of
> the new Kindred, I'm a little less thrilled that this week will simply
> be brief looks at what are apparently signature characters (sans
> stats, even); and this is coming from a big sig fan!
If we're really seeing the signature characters, that means we'll get to
learn what the five clans are this week. That's enough spoiler info for
me. So far, we've got the Ventrue, the Mekhet, and the Daeva. Time
will tell if the remaining two are the Nosferatu and the Gangrel, or if
those words are used for different things this time around. (We know
they're reappearing in some capacity.)
I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Nosferatu and the Gangrel are
the last two. When speculating on archetypes in the new WoD forum, I
suggested the five would be:
Aristocrats (combining aspects of the Ventrue, Tzimisce /voivodes/,
Lasombra, Giovanni family loyalists, and Tremere clan loyalists)
Seducers (the Daeva were the only clan known at this time, but I
speculated a combination of the Toreador social manipulation and the
Setite role as pushers)
Monsters (this is the Nosferatu, the inhuman-appearance Tzimisce, the
animal-feature Gangrel, and the rotting Samedi)
Nomads/Underclass (Brujah, wandering elements of the Gangrel, Ravnos,
and to a limited degree the Assamite "scary foreigner" stereotype)
and a fifth, possibly Scholar (Tremere, Assamite sorcerers, Setite
sorcerers and egyptologists, Giovanni necromancers, Tzimisce kolduns,
Kiasyd, etc.)
I expected them to merge the nomads and the underclass together for a
Brujah/Gangrel(except the animal features, which go to the
Monsters)/Ravnos fusion, but if they've separated them out, then the
archetypes could very well go like this:
Aristocrats - Ventrue
Seducers - Daeva
Monsters - Nosferatu
Underclass - Mekhet
Nomads - Gangrel
Ages ago, Justin said that if he were re-doing Vampire, he'd only have
five clans -- the Brujah, Gangrel, Nosferatu, Toreador, and Ventrue,
with the Tremere as a sixth hated and blasphemous non-playable clan of
villains. If we assume that VII is the Tremere-analog, then the above
lines up with what he said quite well.
(Interestingly, Justin says "Mekhet" is an Egyptian word for amulet.
This together with the mention in Loki's description of his occult
leanings suggests they've actually put together the scholar archetype
with the underclass archetype, unless Loki is not a typical example of
his clan, which would be unusual for a signature character.)
> Well, I guess I'd imagined that we'd be hearing about the new Werewolf
> or Mage this week instead of more Vampire...
I wouldn't expect to see much about them yet. The Werewolf previews
will probably appear in September or October, and I doubt we'll see any
big Mage previews this year.
> What do you all think of the revelations so far? Gotta say, so far
> V:tR seems to be hewing a LOT closer to V:tM than I thought it
> would...It almost feels like a more extreme Revision than a truly new
> start. But we've only seen the tip of the iceberg, so far...The true
> telling will be in the history of the new Kindred, and their
> relationship to Caine, Antediluvians, etc (if any). Can't wait to see
> more!
We know what that is.
There's no more Generation, just Blood Potency. Without Generation, and
with every vampire starting at Blood Potency 1, there's no way to figure
out how many vampire generations we are away from the progenitor, except
to ask the old ones.
Except wait! There's the Fog of Eternity. Vampires who fall into
torpor dream and hallucinate while asleep, and when they wake up they
have a difficult time telling the difference between their torporous
dreams and their actual memories. Vampires who go into torpor numerous
times won't remember much of their early life at all, while vampires who
go into torpor not very often will have thick, potent blood and be
borderline-insane cannibalistic monsters.
So there's no way to tell what the progenitor is. Likewise, old
vampires are potentially weaker than neonates, or at least about the
same strength, so there's no terribly oppressive social structure and no
necessity of Antediluvians. (Though I'm sure there will be myths of
terrible elders waiting in the dark corners of the world for young
vampires to fall prey to.)
> BTW, do we know what "Covenants" are yet?
Mini-Camarillas and Min-Sabbats, capable of existing side-by-side in a
given city and cooperating within the power structure, although possibly
not all of them.
We know already of the Circle of the Crone, a pagan Covenant that
believes vampires are a natural part of the world and justified in their
existence. Not always neo-pagans, either -- the signature Crone Circle
character is Loki, who's basically a leg-breaker.
We also know about the Invictus, since they're mentioned in Persephone's
writeup. Given that she "enjoys the comforts the First Estate gives
her," but chafes because she believes that "feudalism is an unnatural
concept," I suspect the Invictus is the new feudal Camarilla-analog,
less concerned with hiding themselves and more concerned with being
tyrants who hold the power over Kindred society. It should be noted
that Loki and Persephone both exist in Chicago, and while Prince Maxwell
is evidently a member of the Invictus (since his childe Persephone is as
well), Loki is a member of the Circle of the Crone and still manages to
exist within the ranks of the city's power. So Covenants are not
anathema to each other.
The third Covenant, which we don't know for sure yet but suspect, is the
Lancea Sanctum. We know that originally, there was going to be a
Covenant called the Sabbat in the new WoD, but Justin decided they were
so much unlike the old Sabbat he might as well change the name along
with everything else. But he doesn't say what he changed it to.
However, we also know that October was going to see publication of a
hardcover Amazon.com is still calling "Vampire Sabbat Heralds of Cain."
The new Quarterly doesn't say anything about such a book, but it does
say that October will see a book called Lancea Sanctum: The Spear of
Destiny. And they're both in the same price range.
Now, I suspect that the Invictus and the Lancea Sanctum might not get
along well together. On the other hand, if the Invictus is the First
Estate, that could line up with the medieval idea of the First Estate
being the nobility, the Second Estate being the clergy, and the Third
Estate being the peasantry. If that's the case, then perhaps the Lancea
Sanctum is the prominent Vampire religion, existing as the Second Estate
to the Invictus's First. If so, their clashes would be more
church/state than Camarilla/Sabbat.
Speculation is fun.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram