X4 760K no L3 cache....gaming?!?!

[fatboyslimerr]

The X4 760K AMD chip interests me as its a cheap little CPU with an unlocked multiplier allowing for some overclocking fun. I was potentially going to buy an i5 gaming build but I don't want to spend a fortune on the K processors from intel (and related Z87 mobo). Also FX series don't have good mATX motherboards.

I mainly watch HD movies and play games at 1080p on high/very high settings (current laptop - i7 940XM and 7970M) so if I were to build a little mATX build using X4 760K and a decent cooler like Cosair H90, paired with something like a R9 280 or GTX 760 would I still be able to enjoy that same detail level? People have been easily able to reach 4.7Ghz OC on 760K but suggest the lack of L3 cache is still bottlenecking their GPUs. What would be a good GPU to pair with this CPU so as not to bottleneck? Perhaps Palit GTX 750 Ti Dual StormX? Can I run 1866 Mhz CL9 RAM to reduce bottlenecking?

Thanks in advance.

 

[expl0itfinder]

I've run the APU equivalent of that CPU, the A10-5800K. It has the same CPU cores. It bottlenecked a stock HD 7850 in almost every multiplayer game that I played. Whether it was due to lack of L3 cache, or just the weak CPU cores, you would be much better off with an FX 4300 or 6300. They overclock much more efficiently anyway.

 

[Guest]

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/221/AMD_Athlon_X4_760K_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-2500K.html

 

[Wisecracker]

You can pair any GPU with the 760K you wish ... it generally performs 5% or so below that of an FX- processor, MAYBE 10% in CPU-intensive games (generally qualified with a 1080p resolution -- higher resolutions would be less)

Your graphics card budget becomes more of a limiting factor than the 760K.

Be sure to purchase a Bolton D4 FM2+ motherboard.

 

[expl0itfinder]

You can pair any GPU with the 760K you wish ... it generally performs 5% or so below that of an FX- processor, MAYBE 10% in CPU-intensive games (generally qualified with a 1080p resolution -- higher resolutions would be less)

Your graphics card budget becomes more of a limiting factor than the 760K.

Be sure to purchase a Bolton D4 FM2+ motherboard.

I disagree. Speaking from experience, I was never able to max out my GPU, unless I looked away from battle. Then, my framerates would soar. In BF3, whenever I would look in the general direction of battle in a mulitplayer server, my framerates would drop to around 30-40FPS on a blend of medium and high settings. In the campaign, I could hit 60FPS consistently at high/ultra settings.

 

[Wisecracker]

Your anecdotes don't mean crap.

 

[expl0itfinder]

Your anecdotes don't mean crap.

Sarcasm isn't necessary. Many benchmarks only reflect single player performance, which this CPU will do fine with. But I guarantee, as soon as you start playing multiplayer, you get an unpleasant, choppy gameplay experience.

 

[logainofhades]

750k/760k are not a very good gaming chips. They are slower, clock for clock, than a Phenom II X4 965. You would be better off not overclocking, and just getting a Haswell i3 than getting a 760k. If you want to overclock, FX 6300 is the way to go. The Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 would be sufficient for up to at least 4.0, since it uses less power than an FX 8320/8350 and it is capable of handling both of those chips.

 

[fatboyslimerr]

Thanks for that clear chart. When I look at 4300 and 6300 chips I'm less excited and would lean towards a non-K i5 and cheap H81 mobo. Might we expect 860Ks based on new Kaveri but without the GCN cores? Really don't know that much about AMD chips.

Might as well wait for Haswell refresh? Or won't it affect pricing by much? I also hear there is a new mobo chipset Z97 or something?

 

[logainofhades]

New chipset will be for Broadwell. I would buy now.

 

[Wisecracker]

That chart is meaningless junk --- link to the article to see why.

The discrepancies generally come from two games, and in those two games the AMD processors are pushing 70-80 FPS.

 

[logainofhades]

What about the games that AMD sucks at? I really don't know what you are complaining about. I told the OP that an i3 would be a better choice unless they truly want to overclock. That is a true statement for all except a few games that just flat out hate AMD, like Starcraft II. Also for a low budget rig, where someone wants to play around with overclocking, AMD is your only option. I am starting to lean more towards the non overclocking way of thinking as of late. My 3570k may be my last overclocking chip.

 

[expl0itfinder]

That chart is meaningless junk --- link to the article to see why.

The discrepancies generally come from two games, and in those two games the AMD processors are pushing 70-80 FPS.

The 760K just is not a good CPU for anything aside for low-end gaming. There really isn't a valid reason to get this over something like an FX 6300. The price difference is not big enough to justify the performance difference. And the 6300 is a FAR better overclocker when paired with a comparable motherboard. I've used both, as stated before, I used to run the APU equivalent with a 7850, and then I did a build with the 6300, which was a pleasant surprise for the price. I would never recommend running it at stock clocks, however. It overclocks so well even without changing the voltage. Then, I upgraded my own system with the FX 8320 and a new 990FX motherboard. The difference truly is significant enough to make some games unplayable when using the 760K.

 

[fatboyslimerr]

So a FX 6300, Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 and decent ATX case is coming in at a similar price to an i5 4440, Asus H81M-Plus and CM N200. At which point it stops being budget really? I understand that 760K will seriously bottleneck any decent graphics card but the FX 6300 + a decent 900 series mobo is starting to get a bit pricey. Would you guys rather have the AMD or Intel combo I mention above?

 

[logainofhades]

The i5 combo would be faster than an FX 6300. If the H81 has all the features you want/need, there is no point in spending more on motherboard.

 

[expl0itfinder]

The i5 combo would be faster than an FX 6300. If the H81 has all the features you want/need, there is no point in spending more on motherboard.

I agree with you that it would be faster initially, but the ability to overclock is a valuable option, IMHO. And also, the two extra threads (I refuse to call them "cores") may come in handy as more and more games are optimized for multithreading. Combine that with a solid overclock, you could have some serious performance per dollar. FX 6300 Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 would do more than fine, but the i5 4440 and Asus H81M-Plus would be awesome as well. It honestly comes down to your personal preference, and how much tweaking you feel comfortable with. If you are not comfortable overclocking, then grab the i5.

 

[logainofhades]

An FX 6300 @4.5ghz cannot even match a 3570k at stock.

 

[expl0itfinder]

An FX 6300 @4.5ghz cannot even match a 3570k at stock.

The 3570K is not the CPU in question. And it also depends on game optimization. If more games go down the path of Battlefield 4 in terms of utilizing many threads, then we may see the 6300 getting a bit of a second wind.

 

[logainofhades]

I was stating that as an example of the fact than an FX 6300 is not going to beat an i5.

 

[fatboyslimerr]

I'm still unsure about the AMD or Intel choices. AMD has more cores/threads, is overclockable but has to have full size ATX board.
Intel has faster IPC, faster single core performance, can have mATX board. I'm leaning towards intel now purely for the mATX form factor.
Here is my build so far. Coming in nice and cheap. Thanks again for all comments. Any build comments appreciated.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor (£125.99 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling UCACO-AP11301-BUA01 Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler (£7.83 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus H81M-E Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£37.54 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£60.55 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 270 2GB Video Card (£128.75 @ Ebuyer)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (£32.99 @ Novatech)
Power Supply: Be Quiet 400W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£38.87 @ Aria PC)
Total: £432.52
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-03-15 13:19 GMT+0000)

 

[logainofhades]

Modified your build a bit. Got a better PSU and cooler for your build. The cooler you chose wouldn't really be much, if any, better than stock. It is more or less a stock replacement heatsink.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor (£125.99 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper TX3 54.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.50 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus H81M-E Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£37.54 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£58.96 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 270 2GB Video Card (£128.75 @ Ebuyer)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (£32.99 @ Novatech)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£34.14 @ Scan.co.uk)
Total: £441.87
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-03-17 14:48 GMT+0000)

 

[fatboyslimerr]

Thanks logainofhades. After a bit more research I've learnt more about the importance of high amp 12v rails when running powerful graphics card. I've also spent a lot of time considering all the articles below. I have therefore decided to go the AMD route. I don't really do any other CPU-intensive tasks other than gaming so the extra single core performance will be lost on me. I also don't plan on running games with everything turned up to 11, just very high, 1080p and some nice post processing. Also there has been a price drop in R9 270X. X40 or H90 will be used depending on which is cheaper.

These articles make me think, I'd rather have the overclockability, six-core AMD rather than a locked multiplier quad core from Intel.
Not a sure difference between i7s and quad cores from AMD here.

http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1185&page=12

http://www.techspot.com/review/734-battlefield-4-benchmarks/page6.html

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7189/choosing-a-gaming-cpu-september-2013

My updated build is therefore:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor (£77.99 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X40 98.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (£73.68 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard (£53.95 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£60.55 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 270X 2GB Video Card (£147.92 @ Scan.co.uk)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£69.65 @ Dabs)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (£53.28 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £537.02
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-03-17 15:12 GMT+0000)

 

[logainofhades]

Nothing wrong with an FX 6300, it is just inferior to an i5. You are not going to safely overclock much with that board either.

 

[fatboyslimerr]

Nothing wrong with an FX 6300, it is just inferior to an i5. You are not going to safely overclock much with that board either.

I know its inferior but I'm not bothered about a powerful CPU, based on the fact that most games don't take a huge performance hit between an i5 4440 @ 3.1Ghz and an FX 6300 OC @ 4Ghz. Also it seems games are starting to utilise more cores (BF4), particularly if more games have mantle support (lets see what DX 12 offers).

Would you recommend a 990 Chipset? Any particular board recommendations?

 

[logainofhades]

This would game far better. The problem isn't so much being inferior, as to spending more for inferior. If you were spending less, it would make sense. Not only is this build cheaper, it has a faster gpu and cpu.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor (£125.99 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Asus H81M-E Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£37.54 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£58.96 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card (£229.78 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (£32.99 @ Novatech)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£44.98 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £530.24
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-03-17 15:53 GMT+0000)