News Xbox Series S Specs: 4 Teraflop GPU, AMD Zen 2 CPU at 3.6 GHz

Shadowclash10

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Ouch... 4 teraflops ain't great, especially compared to the Series X. It seems like the Series X is a much better value - $200 for another 500GBs, 12 more Tflops, 32 more CUs IIRC, and a Blue-ray drive, a higher clocked CPU and GPU, and 6GB more RAM. Yep, Series X is a much better value. Though, OFC, people will probably buy the Series S more, because $300.

OFC, we shouldn't go by Tflops alone - cards can easily punch above their weight when talking about Tflops, but when comparing these two, it applies.
 

nofanneeded

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lol MS what are you doing ?!!??

6 GB less VRAM , 512GB less SSD , no Blueray , 1/3 Tflops of the real console ?

for $200 less ? well people will just keep their old Xbox one X and wont bother about this dwarf...

and how on earth are you advertising 1440P gaming with only 10GB total system RAM with RT ?? if the game itself takes 8GB for the game data, the GPU is left with only 2GB of VRAM ...

Guys , this console is a disaster for the new Xbox series X do you know why?

Because the Total Memory of 10GB only will make third parties not use the full Potential of the Xbox series X 16GB total memory , you wont find games that takes full capabilities of the bigger console to the edge ..

No modern game works fine without 8GB of System ram and 8GB of VRAM .. new games are requiring 16 GB of System RAM AND 8 GB of VRAM ...

MS crippled the capability of the bigger console software wise ... yes you CAN lower details to use less VRAM but System RAM that is needed cont be lowered much. so for games to work on both consoles they will never take full potential of the bigger console memory wise.
 
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Shadowclash10

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lol MS what are you doing ?!!??

6 GB less VRAM , 512GB less SSD , no Blueray , 1/3 Tflops of the real console ?

for $200 less ? well people will just keep their old Xbox one X and wont bother about this dwarf...

and how on earth are theu advertising 1440P gaming with only 10GB VRAM with RT ?? if the game itself takes 8GB of the game the GPU is left with only 2GB of VRAM ...
Nah, plenty of people with Xbox One Xs will buy this - next-gen games, new look, bragging rights, next-gen features. The weird thing is that this is so much worse compared to the Series X, which on paper, actually does sound good.
 

nofanneeded

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Nah, plenty of people with Xbox One Xs will buy this - next-gen games, new look, bragging rights, next-gen features. The weird thing is that this is so much worse compared to the Series X, which on paper, actually does sound good.
you dont get it , the Total RAM is what concerns me more ... games need VRAM and System RAM .. and given most modern games need 8GB to run , you will be left with only 2GB for GPU , this is not even enough for 720P with max detail.

and lets say they make the game work on 4GB system and 6GB VRAM , for FHD gaming , this will cripple the game when it works on Xbox series X , this console will cripple the software houses from using the full potential of the "X" because they will have to make the software work on both. this is a disaster for the bigger "X" no game will take full potential of its hardware and work on both consoles , 6 GB difference is ALOT.
 
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lol MS what are you doing ?!!??

6 GB less VRAM , 512GB less SSD , no Blueray , 1/3 Tflops of the real console ?

for $200 less ? well people will just keep their old Xbox one X and wont bother about this dwarf...

and how on earth are theu advertising 1440P gaming with only 10GB VRAM with RT ?? if the game itself takes 8GB of the game the GPU is left with only 2GB of VRAM ...
Again, it's a $300 console, that should be able to run all the latest games, albeit upscaled from probably around 1080p or so in most titles. As I said in the other thread, most people won't be pixel-hunting, and many likely won't care much that the Series X renders at a higher resolution. There are still plenty of people with 1080p TVs after all, and at typical viewing distances, the upscaled output will likely look reasonably fine even on a 4K television.

As for the RAM, consoles can use it more efficiently since they don't need to shuffle data between VRAM and system memory, so it's probably not as much of a concern as you are assuming. Having guaranteed SSD storage also means data can be loaded quickly off the drive, so less needs to remain in RAM at any given time. Today's existing console and PC games need to assume that they will be loaded off a slow hard drive, so they must keep more data loaded into memory at any given time whether they are running off an SSD or not.

Ultimately, this version of the console is there for those who don't feel they can afford, or are just not willing to spend $500 on a console just to play the handful of games they might be interested in. This costs substantially less than an Xbox One X, and certainly isn't targeted at those who paid extra for that premium version of the last console. Microsoft is undoubtedly selling both versions of their console at a loss, at least at initially, and it probably wouldn't be practical to expect more hardware for $300.
 

nofanneeded

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Again, it's a $300 console, that should be able to run all the latest games, albeit upscaled from probably around 1080p or so in most titles. As I said in the other thread, most people won't be pixel-hunting, and many likely won't care much that the Series X renders at a higher resolution. There are still plenty of people with 1080p TVs after all, and at typical viewing distances, the upscaled output will likely look reasonably fine even on a 4K television.

As for the RAM, consoles can use it more efficiently since they don't need to shuffle data between VRAM and system memory, so it's probably not as much of a concern as you are assuming. Having guaranteed SSD storage also means data can be loaded quickly off the drive, so less needs to remain in RAM at any given time. Today's existing console and PC games need to assume that they will be loaded off a slow hard drive, so they must keep more data loaded into memory at any given time whether they are running off an SSD or not.

Ultimately, this version of the console is there for those who don't feel they can afford, or are just not willing to spend $500 on a console just to play the handful of games they might be interested in. This costs substantially less than an Xbox One X, and certainly isn't targeted at those who paid extra for that premium version of the last console. Microsoft is undoubtedly selling both versions of their console at a loss, at least at initially, and it probably wouldn't be practical to expect more hardware for $300.
Still the 10GB total system RAM is a huge concern. and there is nothing called shuffle data , when your game textures on the screen needs at least 6GB of VRAM for 1440p leaving the system with only 4G of ram to run with ... this is a serious issue.
 

atomicWAR

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you dont get it , the Total RAM is what concerns me more ... games need VRAM and System RAM .. and given most modern games need 8GB to run , you will be left with only 2GB for GPU , this is not even enough for 720P with max detail.

and lets say they make the game work on 4GB system and 6GB VRAM , for FHD gaming , this will cripple the game when it works on Xbox series X , this console will cripple the software houses from using the full potential of the "X" because they will have to make the software work on both. this is a disaster for the bigger "X" no game will take full potential of its hardware and work on both consoles , 6 GB difference is ALOT.
The ram capacity is lighter then I would like to see but it isn't the gulf your making it out to be either. First the OS is supposed to only need 2.5gb to run leaving 7.5GB for games data like textures. Second the SSD will be able to stream textures much faster than the HDDs of old helping fill that ram much faster minimizing the need for more ram on both consoles. Third with ML textures on both the Series X and S this will take a great deal of workload off the systems as well. I truly would have liked to see both consoles come with another 2GB of ram but just because they didn't I don't think it the problem you perceive it to be. But yeah check this out...

 

saunupe1911

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Still the 10GB total system RAM is a huge concern. and there is nothing called shuffle data , when your game textures on the screen needs at least 6GB of VRAM for 1440p leaving the system with only 4G of ram to run with ... this is a serious issue.
There's a reason why top selling multi-platform games such as Madden 21, NBA 2k21, and COD Black Ops Multiplayer (revealed today) have shown their footage running on the PS5 and you just gave the reasons.
 
There's a reason why top selling multi-platform games such as Madden 21, NBA 2k21, and COD Black Ops Multiplayer (revealed today) have shown their footage running on the PS5 and you just gave the reasons.
This makes absolutely no sense PS five is not better than a series X and this was not a story about the series X. Please take your fanboy comments somewhere else
 

nofanneeded

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The ram capacity is lighter then I would like to see but it isn't the gulf your making it out to be either. First the OS is supposed to only need 2.5gb to run leaving 7.5GB for games data like textures. Second the SSD will be able to stream textures much faster than the HDDs of old helping fill that ram much faster minimizing the need for more ram on both consoles. Third with ML textures on both the Series X and S this will take a great deal of workload off the systems as well. I truly would have liked to see both consoles come with another 2GB of ram but just because they didn't I don't think it the problem you perceive it to be. But yeah check this out...


You are wrong , The OS meory hasd nothing to do with the Game memory need . Any software needs memory to run and store gaming data and not texture data ... Most games need at least 8GB of RAM to run , if you take out from it 2.5G for the OS , you will still need 5.5GB for the game to RUN , then Above that you will need Memory for the GPU and for the Textures ...

dont mix between OS Memory need and Software need which is Additional !!!

Minimum RAM needed for most modern games is 8GB , PLUS 4 GB VRAM for FHD , 6GB VRAM for 1440P and 8 GB VRAM for 4K gaming.

This will give you Total of 12GB (FHD) ,14 G (1440P) , 16 .GB (4K)Total Console RAM ..

10GB TOTAL CONSOLE RAM is very low for modern games ...
 
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You are wrong , The OS meory hasd nothing to do with the Game memory need . Any software needs memory to run and store gaming data and not texture data ... Most games need at least 8GB of RAM to run , if you take out from it 2.5G for the OS , you will still need 5.5GB for the game to RUN , then Above that you will need Memory for the GPU and for the Textures ...

dont mix between OS Memory need and Software need which is Additional !!!

Minimum RAM needed for most modern games is 8GB , PLUS 4 GB VRAM for FHD , 6GB VRAM for 1440P and 8 GB VRAM for 4K gaming.

This will give you Total of 12GB (FHD) ,14 G (1440P) , 16 .GB (4K)Total Console RAM ..

10GB TOTAL CONSOLE RAM is very low for modern games ...
Can you show your working here please?
6GB VRAM (MINIMUM) for 1440p seems a bit absurd, even with AA you'd expect a quarter of that usage.
 
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you dont get it , the Total RAM is what concerns me more ... games need VRAM and System RAM .. and given most modern games need 8GB to run , you will be left with only 2GB for GPU , this is not even enough for 720P with max detail.

and lets say they make the game work on 4GB system and 6GB VRAM , for FHD gaming , this will cripple the game when it works on Xbox series X , this console will cripple the software houses from using the full potential of the "X" because they will have to make the software work on both. this is a disaster for the bigger "X" no game will take full potential of its hardware and work on both consoles , 6 GB difference is ALOT.
Consoles have unified memory they do everything within 8Gb or however much they have,they can divide that any which way they like, PC don't have unified memory and since devs are crazy lazy they just copy the unified ram to both the GPU and system.
The console will be fine with that amount of ram.
 

nofanneeded

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Consoles have unified memory they do everything within 8Gb or however much they have,they can divide that any which way they like, PC don't have unified memory and since devs are crazy lazy they just copy the unified ram to both the GPU and system.
The console will be fine with that amount of ram.
Divide the way they like ? yea and 10G is low what so ever to divide ... and big no consoles wit 10GB of total ram wont give you ultra texture details settings , you will be stuck at medium settings in most modern games. as I said 1440P needs 6GB of VRAM minimum in modern games.
 

Chung Leong

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Second the SSD will be able to stream textures much faster than the HDDs of old helping fill that ram much faster minimizing the need for more ram on both consoles.
The new Xbox also supports sampler feedback. That allows game engines to avoid loading textures that aren't currently needed. Given that most objects in a scene are far away, the potential saving is massive.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/coming-to-directx-12-sampler-feedback-some-useful-once-hidden-data-unlocked/
 

nofanneeded

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The new Xbox also supports sampler feedback. That allows game engines to avoid loading textures that aren't currently needed. Given that most objects in a scene are far away, the potential saving is massive.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/coming-to-directx-12-sampler-feedback-some-useful-once-hidden-data-unlocked/
This will not work in games with far line of sight ... like shooters in open maps where you can zoom anywhere 10x and still see objects and enemies... all must be loaded ..
 

atomicWAR

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Edited post

Pretty sure PC OSes separate the data between system and GPU memory depending on its use so there's no copying of the entire data blob to both unless you deliberately did this.
And
You are wrong , The OS meory hasd nothing to do with the Game memory need . Any software needs memory to run and store gaming data and not texture data ... Most games need at least 8GB of RAM to run , if you take out from it 2.5G for the OS , you will still need 5.5GB for the game to RUN , then Above that you will need Memory for the GPU and for the Textures ...

dont mix between OS Memory need and Software need which is Additional !!!

Minimum RAM needed for most modern games is 8GB , PLUS 4 GB VRAM for FHD , 6GB VRAM for 1440P and 8 GB VRAM for 4K gaming.

This will give you Total of 12GB (FHD) ,14 G (1440P) , 16 .GB (4K)Total Console RAM ..

10GB TOTAL CONSOLE RAM is very low for modern games ...
Dev's are known to use double the VRAM the game requires do to lazy coding on PC. I wish I could find a really well written article I read on PC development but the short of it is during the development phase they reserve twice the graphics memory they need to run a title because it helps with crashing issues and if I remember correctly allows them to get more accurate crash logs so they can fix the issues as they build their games. The thing is most dev's just leave this allocated VRAM in the final build for PC as well as it can allow for greater stability do to the shear number of hardware combinations they need to target. You'll notice I didn't mention consoles until now. Since all consoles have fixed hardware with an OS coded explicitly for gaming, devs don't need to use this coding trick (cough laziness cough cough) to get their games to run stable. So while you can point out all these PCcentic issues as being a problem for next gen consoles, they are just that...PC issues not console ones (for the most part). I am not saying these consoles aren't without limitations but their fixed hardware helps mitigate so much of what your talking about.

If you really want to breakdown ram being an issue in this generation of consoles, you need to understand it isn't just the consoles but everything on the market right now that uses ram. Historically we are use to ram dropping in price by approximately 33% year on year. This is why we typically see 8 times the amount of ram in a new generation of consoles compared to the last gen. The problem is ram prices have stagnated and are only dropping by around 8% year on year as of late. Where we had a more plentiful gain in ram last gen with an unusual increase of 16x going from 512MB to 8GB. This generation is a drought where we are only looking at double the capacity for the XBSX compared the launch consoles and a meager .25 increase when talking about the XBSS. So yeah you can complain about ram but it is everything on the market that utilizes it that is being short changed. Point being MS and Sony are keenly aware of this issue, as are devs.

At the end of the day VRAM is not the huge problem you make it out to be. No it isn't ideal but it shouldn't hamstring things nearly as bad as you seem to worry about. In a perfect world we would be getting 64GB of ram in these consoles. Unfortunately it just isn't in the cards to have an 8X increase this generation. The XBSS will do just fine next gen and should put some well needed heat on Sony's PlayStation line.
 
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hotaru.hino

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Dev's are known to use double the VRAM the game requires do to lazy coding on PC. I wish I could find a really well written article I read on PC development but the short of it is during the development phase they reserve twice the graphics memory they need to run a title because it helps with crashing issues and if I remember correctly allows them to get more accurate crash logs so they can fix the issues as they build their games. The thing is most dev's just leave this allocated VRAM in the final build for PC as well as it can allow for greater stability do to the shear number of hardware combinations they need to target. You'll notice I didn't mention consoles until now. Since all consoles have fixed hardware with an OS coded explicitly for gaming, devs don't need to use this coding trick (cough laziness cough cough) to get their games to run stable. So while you can point out all these PCcentic issues as being a problem for next gen consoles, they are just that...PC issues not console ones (for the most part). I am not saying these consoles aren't without limitations but their fixed hardware helps mitigate so much of what your talking about.

If you really want to breakdown ram being an issue in this generation of consoles, you need to understand it isn't just the consoles but everything on the market right now that uses ram. Historically we are use to ram dropping in price by approximately 33% year on year. This is why we typically see 8 times the amount of ram in a new generation of consoles compared to the last gen. The problem is ram prices have stagnated and are only dropping by around 8% year on year as of late. Where we had a more plentiful gain in ram last gen with an unusual increase of 16x going from 512MB to 8GB. This generation is a drought where we are only looking at double the capacity for the XBSX compared the launch consoles and a meager .25 increase when talking about the XBSS. So yeah you can complain about ram but it is everything on the market that utilizes it that is being short changed. Point being MS and Sony are keenly aware of this issue, as are devs.

At the end of the day VRAM is not the huge problem you make it out to be. No it isn't ideal but it shouldn't hamstring things nearly as bad as you seem to worry about. In a perfect world we would be getting 64GB of ram in these consoles. Unfortunately it just isn't in the cards to have an 8X increase this generation. The XBSS will do just fine next gen and should put some well needed heat on Sony's PlayStation line.
Taking what I quoted at face value, it looked more like that person was suggesting game developers of multiplatform systems just take the entire contents of the unified RAM and shove it in both System and VRAM. i.e., the actual game logic is also in VRAM and the graphics assets are in system RAM (which I understand is a thing, but not a 1:1 copy of it).

But I'm aware of the overcommiting in PC systems. This happens in applications too. On a more basic level, it's cheaper to overcommit than it is to ask for just the right amount, realize you actually need more, and ask for more.
 

atomicWAR

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Taking what I quoted at face value, it looked more like that person was suggesting game developers of multiplatform systems just take the entire contents of the unified RAM and shove it in both System and VRAM. i.e., the actual game logic is also in VRAM and the graphics assets are in system RAM (which I understand is a thing, but not a 1:1 copy of it).

But I'm aware of the overcommiting in PC systems. This happens in applications too. On a more basic level, it's cheaper to overcommit than it is to ask for just the right amount, realize you actually need more, and ask for more.
I am glad we agree on the over committing. And I did mean to add nofanneeded but in the editing phase of my comment I deleted my reference to him since he has been the big complainer about the ram problems. So forgive me for posting in a fashion that seemed to have you alone in the sights of my argument when much of what I was saying was meant for nofanneeded. I will edit my post next.
 

Chung Leong

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This will not work in games with far line of sight ... like shooters in open maps where you can zoom anywhere 10x and still see objects and enemies... all must be loaded ..
That's the whole point of the technology. We can't accurately infer what textures are needed based on the objects' distances from the camera. As you said, the player could be looking through a sniper scope (or a wormhole, for that matter). Conversely, many objects would be obscured. Some of their surfaces would be facing away from the camera.

Sampler feedback fixes all that by telling us what mip-levels the GPU is actually trying to use. We can then fetch the missing ones from the SSD. Yes, the GPU would have to make do with low-res textures for a frame or two, but that's fraction of a second. The Xbox has special hardware that blends the different mip-levels over time so that transitions happen smoothly.
 

nofanneeded

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That's the whole point of the technology. We can't accurately infer what textures are needed based on the objects' distances from the camera. As you said, the player could be looking through a sniper scope (or a wormhole, for that matter). Conversely, many objects would be obscured. Some of their surfaces would be facing away from the camera.

Sampler feedback fixes all that by telling us what mip-levels the GPU is actually trying to use. We can then fetch the missing ones from the SSD. Yes, the GPU would have to make do with low-res textures for a frame or two, but that's fraction of a second. The Xbox has special hardware that blends the different mip-levels over time so that transitions happen smoothly.
wont work, if the player is a sniper he will kill you he moment your game starts loading the textures . in shooters games every millisecond counts.
 
Why is anybody arguing with this guy? He doesn’t know anything yet spouts off like he’s some kind of expert. I wish he would just go bother with PCs and not bother us With all of this silly nonsense
 

Venomusss

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Microsoft is just using the same strategy that PC games use every day...
( PC Game: Minimum System Requirements / Full Features and Effects System Requirements )
You could build a very basic PC Gaming Rig with a Nvidia GTX1070 that would come pretty close to equaling the performance of the XBOX Series S. That Basic PC Gaming Rig would cost you a lot more than the XBOX Series S at $299. The XBOX Series S is quite a deal at $299. For those that would build a Mid to Higher End PC Gaming Rig with a Nvidia RTX2080, That is close to equaling the XBOX Series X. Once again, that Mid to Higher End PC Gaming Rig would cost you a lot more than the XBOX Series X at $499. The XBOX Series X is an insane value at $499.
More people build or buy budget gaming PC's than people that build or buy Mid to High End Gaming PC's.
I think Microsoft's strategy could pay off.
 
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