Xenon processor help

[salraf]

Hi there,

I am looking to upgrade my 8 yr old dell server. I know a decent amount about intel desktop/laptop processors but little about xenon processors (which most servers seem to be configured with).

Office is about 4-5 staff at any one time accessing the server. I see that there are 5000/6000/7000 series processors and also more expensive e3/e5's etc.

Any quick help on the differences?

 

[hunter315]

What purpose does your server serve? Is it automating tasks and handling large quantities of data or is it a storage server? If it is just a storage server you might want to look into a NAS instead of a full server.

 

[salraf]

Hi and thanks for replying.

Server is used for housing a medical practice software that's shared with several workstations. Patient data is stored and accumulated there. There is also other data (patient encounters, etc) that is stored there as well.

We are currently using Windows SBS 2003.

 

[rahulgarg]

will u continue using windows sbs 2003??
how many concurrent sessions are logged in at a time ??
wat are the specs of the current dell system u are using??

 

[sirstinky]

My IT company manages a dental practice that uses a server to manage their domain, Dentrix and Dentoptics practice management software, appointment, patient records, prescription, X-Ray imaging system, and printers, with up to 5 machines accessing it at any one time because each of the 5 opratories has a machine that uses the Dentrix software, and every machine in the practice has the software installed. The front office machines are also concurrently accessing the server.

Hardware-wise it uses a single quad core Xeon to do all this with no problems. It's a Dell Power Edge 2900 with 4 GB RAM and 3 SATA 160GB HDD's in RAID 5. It does run MS Server 2003 SE. Our other domain and P2P clients use similar setups to manage their domains, company shares, POS, and accounting software.

For a small business with light concurrent queries, I think a single quad Xeon would be just fine. Go for the newer Xeons. The Sandy Bridge E3 series are great and don't cost a lot.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Hi there,

I am looking to upgrade my 8 yr old dell server. I know a decent amount about intel desktop/laptop processors but little about xenon processors (which most servers seem to be configured with).

Office is about 4-5 staff at any one time accessing the server. I see that there are 5000/6000/7000 series processors and also more expensive e3/e5's etc.

Any quick help on the differences?

Current Xeons have the "E3/E5/E7" prefix. The 5xxx/6xxx/7xxx units with no E3/E5/E7 prefix are at least a generation old if not more like two or three generations old. There are roughly four different model lines of modern Xeons:

1. Xeon E3- these are single-CPU-only dual and quad core units which are essentially Xeon rebranded versions of Core i3 and i5 units. The E3-1xxx v2 units are the newest ones, the non-v2 models are a little older. There really isn't much that much real difference between the v1 and v2 parts. These have a pretty high clock speed and dual-channel memory.

2. Xeon E5-14xx/E5-24xx. These are the "entry mainstream" server CPUs and can be had in single-socket E5-14xx and dual-socket E5-24xx guise. These have three-channel memory, work in Socket 1356, and can be had in 4, 6, and 8-core versions. These are a generation behind the E3-1xxx v2 parts as they use the older 32 nm Sandy Bridge core rather than the 22 nm Ivy Bridge core.

3. Xeon E5-16xx/E5-26xx/E5-46xx. These are the "premium mainstream" server CPUs and can be had in single-socket E5-16xx, dual-socket E5-26xx, and four-socket E5-26xx forms. These are essentially the same chips as the E5-14xx/24xx units but have four memory channels instead of three and work in Socket 2011.

4. Xeon E7. These are the "big iron" Xeons with up to 10 cores and can work in up to 8-32 socket arrangements. They are currently available in Socket 1567 and are one generation behind the E5 parts and two generations behind the E3 v2 parts.

I would guess that unless you are really hammering your server hard, a single-processor E3-1xxx will be plenty for a 4-5 person office.

 

[loocifur]

Current Xeons have the "E3/E5/E7" prefix. The 5xxx/6xxx/7xxx units with no E3/E5/E7 prefix are at least a generation old if not more like two or three generations old. There are roughly four different model lines of modern Xeons:

1. Xeon E3- these are single-CPU-only dual and quad core units which are essentially Xeon rebranded versions of Core i3 and i5 units. The E3-1xxx v2 units are the newest ones, the non-v2 models are a little older. There really isn't much that much real difference between the v1 and v2 parts. These have a pretty high clock speed and dual-channel memory.

2. Xeon E5-14xx/E5-24xx. These are the "entry mainstream" server CPUs and can be had in single-socket E5-14xx and dual-socket E5-24xx guise. These have three-channel memory, work in Socket 1356, and can be had in 4, 6, and 8-core versions. These are a generation behind the E3-1xxx v2 parts as they use the older 32 nm Sandy Bridge core rather than the 22 nm Ivy Bridge core.

3. Xeon E5-16xx/E5-26xx/E5-46xx. These are the "premium mainstream" server CPUs and can be had in single-socket E5-16xx, dual-socket E5-26xx, and four-socket E5-26xx forms. These are essentially the same chips as the E5-14xx/24xx units but have four memory channels instead of three and work in Socket 2011.

4. Xeon E7. These are the "big iron" Xeons with up to 10 cores and can work in up to 8-32 socket arrangements. They are currently available in Socket 1567 and are one generation behind the E5 parts and two generations behind the E3 v2 parts.

I would guess that unless you are really hammering your server hard, a single-processor E3-1xxx will be plenty for a 4-5 person office.

Am building a workstation right now,and the problem am having is that am getting a hard time choosing the Processor.
My choice would be between i7 3770k---- i7 3820----- E5-4610 ..As am getting a good price on the E5-4610 price range doesn't matter.

My build will be used mainly for 3d rendering,using Vray,iRay etc. I couldn't find any benchmarks on the E5 4610.

What would you suggest for me,thanking you in advance if you find a few mins to reply to all my questions.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Am building a workstation right now,and the problem am having is that am getting a hard time choosing the Processor.
My choice would be between i7 3770k---- i7 3820----- E5-4610 ..As am getting a good price on the E5-4610 price range doesn't matter.

My build will be used mainly for 3d rendering,using Vray,iRay etc. I couldn't find any benchmarks on the E5 4610.

What would you suggest for me,thanking you in advance if you find a few mins to reply to all my questions.

The E5-4610 is pretty close to a LGA2011 i7-3930K clocked down to 3/4 speed (2.4-2.9 GHz vs. 3.2-3.8 GHz.) I'd use that as a rough estimation. The E5-4610's strength is that it can be used in dual or quad-processor setup. Two or especially four CPUs will be much faster than a single CPU for rendering but figure $500+ for a dual LGA2011 board and >$1000 for a quad LGA2011 board.

 

[loocifur]

The E5-4610 is pretty close to a LGA2011 i7-3930K clocked down to 3/4 speed (2.4-2.9 GHz vs. 3.2-3.8 GHz.) I'd use that as a rough estimation. The E5-4610's strength is that it can be used in dual or quad-processor setup. Two or especially four CPUs will be much faster than a single CPU for rendering but figure $500+ for a dual LGA2011 board and >$1000 for a quad LGA2011 board.

The E5-4610 can be run in a single configuration setup too. I know it will run fine on a P9X79 WS Asus Mobo, well I haven't tested it myself.

But from what you are saying the E5-4610 is better than the i7 3770 for what I am looking for a rendering Machine, and as am getting one at a pretty cheap price, $400 it is worth it.

Someone told me that it will work on most LGA 2011,if this is so I would gladly get a Gigabyte UD3x79.

 

[sirstinky]

I would lean more towards the i7. If money's not an issue, then by all means go for the E5 Xeon. I like the i7's a lot for bang-for-the-buck. The fastest machine I've every worked with had an i7, and I work around a lot of very fast (and expensive) computers/servers. The E5-4610 is an expensive CPU. The hottest i7 is a couple hundred dollars less and is every bit as fast, for some things, even faster because it has 8 processing cores and hyperthreading. I do like Xeon's for applications like video editing and CAD because they can use ECC RAM, and have built-in error correcting. We use them for enterprise stuff like file and web servers because of the importance of data integrity. For most applications, the i7's are actually faster than the comparable Xeon's, except for the highest-end i7's and the comparable Xeon, for instance the i7 3970k and Xeon E5-2650. The 2650 will be faster than the i7, but not by much. For desktop/workstation use, depending on the configuration (RAM, video card, hard drive/SSD, etc.), the i7 will work fine. If you are wanting the highest-performance with high levels of precision and error-correction or data integrity, as well as scalability and expandability, then the Xeon will be better.

 

[ebalong]

I would lean more towards the i7. If money's not an issue, then by all means go for the E5 Xeon. I like the i7's a lot for bang-for-the-buck. The fastest machine I've every worked with had an i7, and I work around a lot of very fast (and expensive) computers/servers. The E5-4610 is an expensive CPU. The hottest i7 is a couple hundred dollars less and is every bit as fast, for some things, even faster because it has 8 processing cores and hyperthreading. I do like Xeon's for applications like video editing and CAD because they can use ECC RAM, and have built-in error correcting. We use them for enterprise stuff like file and web servers because of the importance of data integrity. For most applications, the i7's are actually faster than the comparable Xeon's, except for the highest-end i7's and the comparable Xeon, for instance the i7 3970k and Xeon E5-2650. The 2650 will be faster than the i7, but not by much. For desktop/workstation use, depending on the configuration (RAM, video card, hard drive/SSD, etc.), the i7 will work fine. If you are wanting the highest-performance with high levels of precision and error-correction or data integrity, as well as scalability and expandability, then the Xeon will be better.

The Xeon E5-2650 would only be faster than the 3970K in apps that use as many threads/cores as they are given, such as cpu-based rendering, because of the 2 additional cores, 4 additional threads. That Xeon is clocked quite a bit slower than the i7, though, so it may not perform as well with single-threaded tasks (the difference may or may not be significant enough to be noticeable).

If you really wanted to drop some money, you could go for one of these gems:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117272

These even have the "W" in their model number, for "workstation" (at least I'm pretty sure that's what it stands for) They have the 8 cores/16 threads, but the clock speed is more comparable with the Extreme i7's; kind of the "best of both worlds", for a steep price. Now, maybe you could start off with one of these bad boys in a dual-cpu motherboard, then add another for ultimate rendering power when you have more money. I've often toyed with the idea of getting just one of these and plugging it into a single-socket 2011 board; justifying $1,900 just for the cpu is kind of difficult though.

Edit: I know that the newer Xeons are locked, but has anyone had success overclocking them a little by toying with the baseclock? Just curious.

 

[loocifur]

I know what I will do..The best situation here is to get an ASUS - Motherboards- Z9PE-D8 WS dual CPU. Then as these lil monsters cost a heck of a lot,I will pop only one of them for the time being and another in the future. Will surely go for E5 Xeons as they are the only ones working in Dual CPU configurations.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Edit: Beat me to the punch. Great choice on going with a dual-socket board for your rendering workload. FYI, you can certainly put quad-CPU-capable Xeons like the E5-4610 in a dual-socket board and they will work fine; you just can't do the opposite.

 

[loocifur]

Edit: Beat me to the punch. Great choice on going with a dual-socket board for your rendering workload. FYI, you can certainly put quad-CPU-capable Xeons like the E5-4610 in a dual-socket board and they will work fine; you just can't do the opposite.

Will it be ok to use only one E5-4610 on this mobo for the time being? And they support 1333Ghz Memory,I think I will put 16Gb(2x8Gb) 1333Mhz of memory and upgrade with time.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Will it be ok to use only one E5-4610 on this mobo for the time being? And they support 1333Ghz Memory,I think I will put 16Gb(2x8Gb) 1333Mhz of memory and upgrade with time.

Should be fine to use it. I have used quad-CPU-capable processors on dual-socket boards and also have empty sockets on a board and it all works fine.

 

[ebalong]

Wait a second. The 4610 is only a six core; its only advantage over the 2650 is that it is clocked 400MHz faster at non-turbo clock. For rendering, I think the 8-core is worth more than a slightly faster 6-core. The 4610 is also more expensive, but I guess you are getting a deal on it (but only that one, and not any of the other E-5's?). What's the reason for the deal on the 4610, but not on any of the other E5's, which would be more suitable for a dual-socket board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008494%20600303512&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=727%7C19-117-266%5E19-117-266-02%23%2C19-117-295%5E19-117-295-02%23

 

[loocifur]

Wait a second. The 4610 is only a six core; its only advantage over the 2650 is that it is clocked 400MHz faster at non-turbo clock. For rendering, I think the 8-core is worth more than a slightly faster 6-core. The 4610 is also more expensive, but I guess you are getting a deal on it (but only that one, and not any of the other E-5's?). What's the reason for the deal on the 4610, but not on any of the other E5's, which would be more suitable for a dual-socket board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008494%20600303512&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=727%7C19-117-266%5E19-117-266-02%23%2C19-117-295%5E19-117-295-02%23

I got a deal from a Guy who tested them as engineering samples, there are a few others but the E5-2650 and E5-4610 are around $400 each (not new). I guess it's a very good deal comparing it to the new ones. Would you suggest other E5?

 

[MU_Engineer]

I got a deal from a Guy who tested them as engineering samples, there are a few others but the E5-2650 and E5-4610 are around $400 each (not new). I guess it's a very good deal comparing it to the new ones. Would you suggest other E5?

I'd pick the 2650 over the 4610 unless I was going to use them in a quad socket board. If they are ESes make doubly sure they work before you pay for them, sometimes ESes don't play well in multi-socket boards. I know of more than a few people who got burned by ES server chips not working properly in SMP mode.

 

[Brandonionz]

Wait a second. The 4610 is only a six core; its only advantage over the 2650 is that it is clocked 400MHz faster at non-turbo clock. For rendering, I think the 8-core is worth more than a slightly faster 6-core. The 4610 is also more expensive, but I guess you are getting a deal on it (but only that one, and not any of the other E-5's?). What's the reason for the deal on the 4610, but not on any of the other E5's, which would be more suitable for a dual-socket board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008494%20600303512&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=727%7C19-117-266%5E19-117-266-02%23%2C19-117-295%5E19-117-295-02%23

Thanks

😍

 

[ebalong]

I got a deal from a Guy who tested them as engineering samples, there are a few others but the E5-2650 and E5-4610 are around $400 each (not new). I guess it's a very good deal comparing it to the new ones. Would you suggest other E5?

I would do as MU Eng. suggested and get the 2650, and a decent dual-socket board. There are faster E5-2xxx (like the 2687W I pointed out) but then you would be paying the full price. If it is between the 4610 and 2650, go 2650, unless you want a quad-cpu server.

Also, the rendering engines you specified (Vray and iRay) both take advantage of CUDA GPGPU acceleration, so your cpu's wouldn't be doing the rendering work alone.

Edit: Vray RT uses GPU + CPU, plain Vray uses CPU to render.