YAAP wishpolygenoless samurai

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Some random musings plus the obligatory status dump (spoilers obviously):

The early game was rather uneventful, except I lost my pet on the first
few levels, and I wasn't able to keep later pets alive for long either.
I did the mines before sokoban, and found lots of goodies, including a
sack, a bag of holding, a ring of gain constitution +2, a long sword and
a magic lamp. I did end up doing sokoban later (which is something I try
to avoid), and got the amulet of reflection.

Back in the main dungeon I dipped the longsword for Excalibur, which is
usually a good mid-game weapon. Although there were altars in the
dungeon, I did not sacrifice for artifacts, since I was planning on
using the Tsurugi as my main weapon later. I did Ludios and Medusa
before I got magic resistance. I was lucky enough to have an altar one
level away from the Ludios portal, so this gave me an opportunity to
improve my AC by trying on every piece of blessed soldier armor.

After getting magic resistance and reflection, I did the quest. The
samurai quest is quite a bit of fun. I got tons of potions of extra/full
healing from the hostile samurais. Not being a coward, I took on
Ashikaga hand to hand (well, ok, I did wear an amulet of life saving, so
a bit cowardly.) Luckily I did not get bisected.

After the quest I descended into Gehennom. I'd say Gehennom is slightly
more fun when playing genoless/wishless since the monsters are more
dangerous and one usually has a relatively bad AC. Minotaurs and other
hard hitting monsters can be a terror to low AC, low HP characters. And
then there is always the danger of liches, disenchanters and mind
flayers. I was able to kill the disenchanters and mind flayers without
much problem, by periodically checking out the monster population with
telepathy and teleporting them away if things started to look bad.
Liches were much worse though, and I did get a lot of stuff cursed.

I got the Book and the Candelabrum without much incident, likewise the
Amulet, but the trek up was not pleasant. I was constantly harassed by
mysterious forces and black glows. No fun at all. To top it all off, I
accidentally fell into the castle moat, blanking my scrolls of gold
detection.

The elemental planes were not too hard, despite having to use the Amulet
as a portal detector, but I will admit that I had a fair bit of luck in
finding the portals as fast as I did.

On Astral I got lucky and the first altar I chose (with Famine) was the
correct one. I did get killed by Famine once, due to being surrounded by
lots of difficult monsters that kept lowering my HP at an alarming rate.
But in the end, I prevailed:


---------
|....@.a|
|aL.a...|
|..a@@..|
|.aa.aa.|
| |....aaa| |
|. ----|---- .|
|.....%A......|
---..."A....---
-----A-----
a
----- $
|
- --
|) -- $% -
--- ----|---
| ) %
------------
Dsjoblom the Daimyo St:25 Dx:18 Co:18 In:13 Wi:18 Ch:11 Lawful
Astral Plane $:0 HP:278(342) Pw:126(126) AC:-23 Exp:24

My inventory:

Amulets
x - an uncursed amulet of reflection
Weapons
P - the blessed +7 Tsurugi of Muramasa (weapon in hands)
R - a +3 athame // found on lich on astral
Armor
g - a blessed +3 cloak of protection // forgot to put this on after water
h - a cursed rusty +0 pair of gauntlets of power (being worn)
v - a cursed +4 Hawaiian shirt (being worn)
G - an uncursed +4 gray dragon scale mail (being worn)
I - an uncursed thoroughly burnt rotted +4 pair of low boots (being worn)
M - a blessed very burnt +2 elven leather helm (being worn)
N - an uncursed thoroughly burnt +0 oilskin cloak (being worn)
Comestibles
f - 2 uncursed C-rations
U - an uncursed lizard corpse
Spellbooks
e - the uncursed Book of the Dead
Rings
o - an uncursed +2 ring of gain constitution
A - an uncursed rusty ring of levitation
C - an uncursed ring of free action (on left hand)
O - an uncursed +2 ring of increase damage (on right hand)
(1 of 2)
Z - an uncursed ring of conflict
Wands
b - a wand of death (0:0)
q - a cursed wand of teleportation (0:6)
s - a rusty wand of lightning (0:5)
F - a wand of teleportation (0:0)
K - a cursed wand of death (0:4)
T - a wand of digging (0:0)
W - a wand of cancellation (0:2)
Y - a cursed wand of digging (0:8)
Tools
a - an uncursed stethoscope
j - a cursed blindfold
n - an uncursed sack
t - a cursed magic lamp (lit)
u - a blessed +0 unicorn horn
H - a blessed bag of holding
L - a cursed credit card
Q - the cursed Bell of Opening (0:2)
X - the cursed Candelabrum of Invocation (no candles attached)
Gems
B - 4 uncursed worthless pieces of yellow glass
(2 of 2)

I had lots of junk in the bag of holding, nothing very interesting.

Final Attributes:

You were piously aligned.
You were fire resistant.
You were cold resistant.
You were sleep resistant.
You were disintegration-resistant.
You were shock resistant.
You were poison resistant.
You were magic-protected.
You saw invisible.
You were telepathic.
You were invisible to others.
You were stealthy.
You had a +2 damage bonus.
You were protected.
You were fast.
You had free action.
You were very lucky.
You had extra luck.
Good luck did not time out for you.
You survived after being killed once.

Vanquished creatures (abridged):

Asmodeus
Baalzebub
Orcus
Juiblex
The Wizard of Yendor (5 times)
Famine (twice)
6 arch-liches
a high priest
Medusa
Croesus
5 master liches
13 minotaurs
Ashikaga Takauji
8 demiliches
Vlad the Impaler
6 master mind flayers
5 disenchanters
9 aligned priests
8 liches
4 mind flayers
117 soldiers
105 wolves
a yellow mold

2501 creatures vanquished.

Voluntary challenges:

You never genocided any monsters.
You never polymorphed an object.
You used no wishes.

(Polyselfless conduct was lost to a poly trap)

Sayonara dsjoblom the Demigod...

You went to your reward with 4488066 points,
The Book of the Dead (worth 10000 zorkmids and 25000 points)
Excalibur (worth 4000 zorkmids and 10000 points)
The Tsurugi of Muramasa (worth 4500 zorkmids and 11250 points)
The Bell of Opening (worth 5000 zorkmids and 12500 points)
The Candelabrum of Invocation (worth 5000 zorkmids and 12500 points)
89 worthless pieces of colored glass,
16 emeralds (worth 40000 zorkmids),
13 rubies (worth 45500 zorkmids),
10 diamonds (worth 40000 zorkmids),
5 amethyst stones (worth 3000 zorkmids),
4 chrysoberyl stones (worth 2800 zorkmids),
4 obsidian stones (worth 800 zorkmids),
4 agate stones (worth 800 zorkmids),
3 aquamarine stones (worth 4500 zorkmids),
3 topaz stones (worth 2700 zorkmids),
3 opals (worth 2400 zorkmids),
3 garnet stones (worth 2100 zorkmids),
3 jasper stones (worth 1500 zorkmids),
3 fluorite stones (worth 1200 zorkmids),
2 dilithium crystals (worth 9000 zorkmids),
--More--
2 black opals (worth 5000 zorkmids),
2 turquoise stones (worth 4000 zorkmids),
2 jade stones (worth 600 zorkmids),
1 sapphire (worth 3000 zorkmids),
1 jet stone (worth 850 zorkmids),
2 amulets of life saving (worth 300 zorkmids),
1 amulet of reflection (worth 150 zorkmids),
and 5000 pieces of gold, after 51202 moves.
You were level 24 with a maximum of 342 hit points when you ascended.

You made the top ten list!

No Points Name
Hp [max]
1 4488066 dsjoblom-Sam-Hum-Mal-Law ascended to demigod-hood.
278 [342]
2 4153194 dsjoblom-Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood.
164 [165]
3 3713348 dsjoblom-Rog-Hum-Mal-Cha ascended to demigod-hood.
203 [203]

--
Daniel Sjöblom
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Daniel Sjöblom wrote:

> Back in the main dungeon I dipped the longsword for Excalibur, which is
> usually a good mid-game weapon. Although there were altars in the
> dungeon, I did not sacrifice for artifacts, since I was planning on
> using the Tsurugi as my main weapon later.

Were you concerned about the new and improved terrible
consequences of a cursed two handed weapon?

> I did Ludios and Medusa
> before I got magic resistance. I was lucky enough to have an altar one
> level away from the Ludios portal, so this gave me an opportunity to
> improve my AC by trying on every piece of blessed soldier armor.

For a wishless ascension that kind of work is almost
required.

> After the quest I descended into Gehennom. I'd say Gehennom is slightly
> more fun when playing genoless/wishless since the monsters are more
> dangerous and one usually has a relatively bad AC. Minotaurs and other
> hard hitting monsters can be a terror to low AC, low HP characters. And
> then there is always the danger of liches, disenchanters and mind
> flayers. I was able to kill the disenchanters and mind flayers without
> much problem, by periodically checking out the monster population with
> telepathy and teleporting them away if things started to look bad.
> Liches were much worse though, and I did get a lot of stuff cursed.

Sounds like you don't believe in Elbereth. If you do, then
the minotaur is about the worst. I think -15 AC is good
enough for Gehennom if you use Elbereth.

> On Astral I got lucky and the first altar I chose (with Famine) was the
> correct one. I did get killed by Famine once, due to being surrounded by
> lots of difficult monsters that kept lowering my HP at an alarming rate.
> But in the end, I prevailed:

> Dsjoblom the Daimyo St:25 Dx:18 Co:18 In:13 Wi:18 Ch:11 Lawful
> Astral Plane $:0 HP:278(342) Pw:126(126) AC:-23 Exp:24

You play without the turn counter on? That should be a
conduct itself. I've done wishgenopolyless but don't know if
I could do without my turn counter!

> You never genocided any monsters.
> You never polymorphed an object.
> You used no wishes.

Well done!

> Sayonara dsjoblom the Demigod...
>
> You went to your reward with 4488066 points,

That seems a high score for 2,500 monsters and 51,000 turns!
Maybe it's because I usually have a pet doing part of the
killing.
--
Wes
The early bird may get the worm,
but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 
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Daniel Sjöblom wrote:

> I did Ludios and Medusa
> before I got magic resistance. I was lucky enough to have an altar one
> level away from the Ludios portal, so this gave me an opportunity to
> improve my AC by trying on every piece of blessed soldier armor.

Hmm. I try every piece of uncursed armour, as well. They are also quite
often enchanted, even if blessed armour usually is.

> Not being a coward, I took on Ashikaga hand to hand (well, ok, I did
> wear an amulet of life saving, so a bit cowardly.) Luckily I did not
> get bisected.

In my current game on NAO, I never even HIT him. He teleported to the
stairs after picking up the Bell and Tsurugi, where he was greeted by my
pet arch lich, who killed him without giving him a chance to heal.

> Minotaurs and other hard hitting monsters can be a terror to low AC,
> low HP characters.

Samurai aren't low HP characters, are they?

> I accidentally fell into the castle moat, blanking my scrolls of gold
> detection.

No magic markers found? Or did you use them up before that?

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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Boudewijn Waijers wrote on Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:22:28 +0100:
> > Minotaurs and other hard hitting monsters can be a terror to low AC,
> > low HP characters.
>
> Samurai aren't low HP characters, are they?

It would depend on the particular samurai.

Any perceived differences in HP between the character classes are
essentially due to differences in their starting CON.

Now, samurai happen to nearly always get 18 CON, but an exceptionally
unlucky one could begin with a CON as low as 15. By level 11, he would
be expected to have 30 less HP than a wizard who had managed to start
with 18 CON (quite unusual for a wizard).


--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
 
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Rast wrote on Tue, 15 Mar 2005 04:02:45 -0500:
> Now, samurai happen to nearly always get 18 CON, but an exceptionally
> unlucky one could begin with a CON as low as 15. By level 11, he would
> be expected to have 30 less HP than a wizard who had managed to start
> with 18 CON (quite unusual for a wizard).

That should be 20 HP, not 30.

--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
 
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Wes Irby wrote:
> Daniel Sjöblom wrote:

(first of all, I must apologize for the somewhat sparse quoting. My
server won't allow me to post less content than quotes.)

>>Although there were altars in the
>>dungeon, I did not sacrifice for artifacts, since I was planning on
>>using the Tsurugi as my main weapon later.
>
> Were you concerned about the new and improved terrible
> consequences of a cursed two handed weapon?

Hmm. No, I can't say I've heard of such a thing, I did it more for
flavour. Please enlighten me about the consequences.

<< Snip gehennom tales >>
>
> Sounds like you don't believe in Elbereth. If you do, then
> the minotaur is about the worst. I think -15 AC is good
> enough for Gehennom if you use Elbereth.

I agree. But I generally don't use Elbereth unless I'm playing a wizard
with Magicbane. Another flavour thing, I guess.

>>Dsjoblom the Daimyo St:25 Dx:18 Co:18 In:13 Wi:18 Ch:11 Lawful
>>Astral Plane $:0 HP:278(342) Pw:126(126) AC:-23 Exp:24
>
> You play without the turn counter on? That should be a
> conduct itself. I've done wishgenopolyless but don't know if
> I could do without my turn counter!

I used to play with the turn counter on, but when I set up my new
nethack I forgot to turn the option on, and I actually like it. I get
stressed out by those turns ticking by :)

>>You never genocided any monsters.
>>You never polymorphed an object.
>>You used no wishes.
>
> Well done!

Thank you!

>>Sayonara dsjoblom the Demigod...
>>
>>You went to your reward with 4488066 points,
>
> That seems a high score for 2,500 monsters and 51,000 turns!
> Maybe it's because I usually have a pet doing part of the
> killing.

It is indeed a surprisingly high score. For comparison, the wizard on my
highscore list, with about 4100000 points vanquished almost 3500
creatures. It is probably due to the lack of a pet, which is quite
uncommon for me as well.

--
Daniel Sjöblom
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Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Daniel Sjöblom wrote:
>
> Hmm. I try every piece of uncursed armour, as well. They are also quite
> often enchanted, even if blessed armour usually is.

I sometimes do this, especially in the mines. But there is just so much
armor in Fort Ludios, it gets a bit tedious.

>>Not being a coward, I took on Ashikaga hand to hand (well, ok, I did
>>wear an amulet of life saving, so a bit cowardly.) Luckily I did not
>>get bisected.
>
> In my current game on NAO, I never even HIT him. He teleported to the
> stairs after picking up the Bell and Tsurugi, where he was greeted by my
> pet arch lich, who killed him without giving him a chance to heal.

Hmm. That does sound strange. Although I guess all the quest monsters
have the same teleporting habits, I think it would make sense if
Ashikaga would never teleport or flee away from combat. He is a samurai
after all. Maybe he could get a HP boost instead.

>>Minotaurs and other hard hitting monsters can be a terror to low AC,
>>low HP characters.
>
> Samurai aren't low HP characters, are they?

No, true that. It was more of a general commentary. I guess wizards and
such are in more danger.

>>I accidentally fell into the castle moat, blanking my scrolls of gold
>>detection.
>
> No magic markers found? Or did you use them up before that?

No magic markers. I actually haven't seen a magic marker for ages in any
of my games. There are also some other items that seem to be very rare,
like eucalyptus leaves, silver daggers and cornuthaums.

--
Daniel Sjöblom
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Daniel Sjöblom wrote:
>
> Wes Irby wrote:
> > Daniel Sjöblom wrote:
>
> >>Although there were altars in the
> >>dungeon, I did not sacrifice for artifacts, since I was planning on
> >>using the Tsurugi as my main weapon later.
> >
> > Were you concerned about the new and improved terrible
> > consequences of a cursed two handed weapon?
>
> Hmm. No, I can't say I've heard of such a thing, I did it more for
> flavour. Please enlighten me about the consequences.

If you get stuck with a cursed two handed weapon you can't
get anything out of your bag and you can't cast a spell. If
you don't carry holy water or a scroll of remove curse in
your open inventory, prayer is your main out. I suppose a
nymph or a fountain might do the trick as well.
--
Wes
The early bird may get the worm,
but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 
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quoting Rast <rast2@hotmail.com>:
>Any perceived differences in HP between the character classes are
>essentially due to differences in their starting CON.

Yes and no. There's up to a six-point difference by class - Tourist vs.
VBCK; a three-point different by race - dwarves vs. elf/gnome/orc; and
racial differences by level thereafter. Also Barbs get extra on a
per-level basis, and Rangers less (but not wizards, oddly).

Yes, CON is the most significant factor; as you observe, 15 vs. 18 CON is
worth 20 points over ten levels. However, being a dwarf can be worth a
large number also; a dwarf will have 13 more points en route to XL 10 than
any other nonhuman, on average.

Personally, I would like to see the CON splits more like 14-15, 16-17, 18
- it's annoying that characters with moderately good CON receive no bonus,
and I think that might ease the early game a little.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is First Leicesterday, March.
 
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Wes Irby wrote:

> Daniel Sjöblom wrote:
>>
>> Wes Irby wrote:
>> > Daniel Sjöblom wrote:
>>
>> >>Although there were altars in the
>> >>dungeon, I did not sacrifice for artifacts, since I was planning
>> >>on using the Tsurugi as my main weapon later.
>> >
>> > Were you concerned about the new and improved terrible
>> > consequences of a cursed two handed weapon?
>>
>> Hmm. No, I can't say I've heard of such a thing, I did it more for
>> flavour. Please enlighten me about the consequences.
>
> If you get stuck with a cursed two handed weapon you can't
> get anything out of your bag and you can't cast a spell. If
> you don't carry holy water or a scroll of remove curse in
> your open inventory, prayer is your main out. I suppose a
> nymph or a fountain might do the trick as well.

You can also step on magic traps, which if your in hell would be the
way to go.

Jorge
 
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Wes Irby wrote:

> If you get stuck with a cursed two handed weapon you can't
> get anything out of your bag and you can't cast a spell. If
> you don't carry holy water or a scroll of remove curse in
> your open inventory, prayer is your main out. I suppose a
> nymph or a fountain might do the trick as well.

Oh, that is bad indeed. Thankfully I never got my weapon cursed. (I
misread your post as being about two weaponing cursed weapons, originally.)

--
Daniel Sjöblom
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