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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

[ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]

I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
be metallic, not "hide" type armour.

After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
colour but an ore.

This would introduce an additional problematic choice for spellcasters:
they can now only get reflection by means of the amulet, since both the
shield and the armour strongly impede spellcasting.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> [ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
>
> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
> be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
> After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
> colour but an ore.

I always assumed that "silver" in this case referred to the
colour/reflective properties of the hide, not the material it's made of.

> This would introduce an additional problematic choice for spellcasters:
> they can now only get reflection by means of the amulet, since both the
> shield and the armour strongly impede spellcasting.

On the other hand, I like the idea of having a trade-off between reflection
and spell casting (although in my particular case, it's the spell casters
that have more of a struggle for survival).

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

> [ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
>
> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
> be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
> After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
> colour but an ore.
>
> This would introduce an additional problematic choice for spellcasters:
> they can now only get reflection by means of the amulet, since both the
> shield and the armour strongly impede spellcasting.

Erm... that is not a choice. That is a removal of the current choice.
Now, a spellcaster can choose to use SDSM and a CoMR (or, more risky,
artifact); or GDSM and an "oRefl. With your suggestion, there would be
no choice: the latter would be the only option.

Richard
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>[ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
>
>I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
>be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
>After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
>colour but an ore.
>
>This would introduce an additional problematic choice for spellcasters:
>they can now only get reflection by means of the amulet, since both the
>shield and the armour strongly impede spellcasting.
>
Spoily space......
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
You feel bored --more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
--more --
You feel spoiled --more --

Methinks you annoy not far enough:
Green DSM: poison resistance required or "roll to save" each turn and die
Black DSM: disintegration resistance required or .......(Pull Yourself
Together Man!)
Blue DSM: shock resistance required or......(short circuits are really
nice when they burn!)
Red DSM: fire resistance required or .......(you'll have a hot time
tonight!)
White DSM: cold resistance required or.....(turn a cold shoulder to the
world permanently)
Yellow DSM: [your suggestion here] or ....(would you get the body
twitches like a junky before you expire?)
Orange DSM: sleep resistance or.......{the big sleep!)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gary Olson wrote:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
>> [ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
>>
>> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
>> be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>>
>> After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
>> colour but an ore.
>>
>> This would introduce an additional problematic choice for spellcasters:
>> they can now only get reflection by means of the amulet, since both the
>> shield and the armour strongly impede spellcasting.
>>
> Spoily space......
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> You feel bored --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> --more --
> You feel spoiled --more --
>
> Methinks you annoy not far enough:
> Green DSM: poison resistance required or "roll to save" each turn and die
> Black DSM: disintegration resistance required or .......(Pull Yourself
> Together Man!)
> Blue DSM: shock resistance required or......(short circuits are really
> nice when they burn!)
> Red DSM: fire resistance required or .......(you'll have a hot time
> tonight!)
> White DSM: cold resistance required or.....(turn a cold shoulder to
> the world permanently)
> Yellow DSM: [your suggestion here] or ....(would you get the body
> twitches like a junky before you expire?)
> Orange DSM: sleep resistance or.......{the big sleep!)

----unless you are wearing a greased/fireproof t-shirt or Hawaiin shirt.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Richard Bos wrote:
> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail,
>> should be metallic, not "hide" type armour.

>> This would introduce an additional problematic choice for
>> spellcasters: they can now only get reflection by means of the
>> amulet, since both the shield and the armour strongly impede
>> spellcasting.

> Erm... that is not a choice. That is a removal of the current choice.
> Now, a spellcaster can choose to use SDSM and a CoMR (or, more risky,
> artifact); or GDSM and an "oRefl. With your suggestion, there would be
> no choice: the latter would be the only option.

I meant the choice of going for reflection or not.

Of course, you could *still* go for the shield or SDSM, but that would
onlyu be a choice for advanced characters, who can cope with the casting
penalty.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Richard Bos wrote:
>
>>"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>
>
>>>I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail,
>>>should be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
>
>>>This would introduce an additional problematic choice for
>>>spellcasters: they can now only get reflection by means of the
>>>amulet, since both the shield and the armour strongly impede
>>>spellcasting.
>
>
>>Erm... that is not a choice. That is a removal of the current choice.
>>Now, a spellcaster can choose to use SDSM and a CoMR (or, more risky,
>>artifact); or GDSM and an "oRefl. With your suggestion, there would be
>>no choice: the latter would be the only option.
>
>
> I meant the choice of going for reflection or not.
>
> Of course, you could *still* go for the shield or SDSM, but that would
> onlyu be a choice for advanced characters, who can cope with the casting
> penalty.

No. It would simply mean that you have to choose the shield for
reflection, if you can't wear the amulet for some other reason. It is
no problem to take off the shield, cast whatever spell you want and put
it on again. Just the same kind of irritation when you want to cast
spells with the Amulet. Cost factor: two additional moves per spell.

In slashem, dragon armor impedes your spell casting in any case, be it
silver or not. That might be a better approach, even though one could
argue that silver should impede it more strongly.
--
Klaus Kassner
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gary Olson wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
>> [ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
>>
>> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
>> be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>>
>> After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
>> colour but an ore.
>>
>> This would introduce an additional problematic choice for spellcasters:
>> they can now only get reflection by means of the amulet, since both the
>> shield and the armour strongly impede spellcasting.
>>

> Methinks you annoy not far enough:
> Green DSM: poison resistance required or "roll to save" each turn and die
> Black DSM: disintegration resistance required or .......(Pull Yourself
> Together Man!)
> Blue DSM: shock resistance required or......(short circuits are really
> nice when they burn!)
> Red DSM: fire resistance required or .......(you'll have a hot time
> tonight!)
> White DSM: cold resistance required or.....(turn a cold shoulder to the
> world permanently)
> Yellow DSM: [your suggestion here] or ....(would you get the body
> twitches like a junky before you expire?)
> Orange DSM: sleep resistance or.......{the big sleep!)

That would defeat the purpose of wearing any of these mails, namely
*acquiring* the corresponding resistance. Moreover, it would even more
strongly tilt the balance towards the choice of gray dragon scale mail,
which would not have *any* negative side effects according to your list.
--
Klaus Kassner
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
>be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
>After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
>colour but an ore.

Silver dragon hide has no discernable metallic silver content, as you
can determine by talking to a vampire while polymorphed into a silver
dragon.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

> [ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
>
> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
> be metallic, not "hide" type armour.

Well, why not. But let's get more nasty twists into that.
Since a GDSM won't let magic inside, why should it let
magic *outside*? I submit that GDSM makes spell--casting
impossible; similarly, Red DSM should make fire spells
impossible etc.. (Yeah, I know that red dragons can breathe
fire, but that's not the same way of fire-magic in my book).

Basically, this would mean to scratch off a few points of
AC for the spellcaster classes, which seems A Good Thing
to me (although a +7 elven chain mail almost covers the
gap); OTOH, it would lead to the forced CoMR-"oR combo
for them, thus severly limiting gaming variety, and this
is Not That Good.

Best,
Jakob
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> writes:

> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
>
> > [ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
> >
> > I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
> > be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
> Well, why not. But let's get more nasty twists into that.
> Since a GDSM won't let magic inside, why should it let
> magic *outside*? I submit that GDSM makes spell--casting
> impossible; similarly, Red DSM should make fire spells
> impossible etc.. (Yeah, I know that red dragons can breathe
> fire, but that's not the same way of fire-magic in my book).
>
> Basically, this would mean to scratch off a few points of
> AC for the spellcaster classes, which seems A Good Thing
> to me (although a +7 elven chain mail almost covers the
> gap); OTOH, it would lead to the forced CoMR-"oR combo
> for them, thus severly limiting gaming variety, and this
> is Not That Good.

Spellcasters would still be OK wearing a "non-standard" colour of DSM,
wouldn't they? I don't think doing without fire spells would be a
serious problem (especially as demon lords and princes are fire
resistant), and since there is no spell of disintegration, Black DSM
would be just as useful as it is now.

Incidentally, elven chain mail is metallic (mithril) and therefore
prevents spellcasting.
Eva.

--
Eva Myers, Computer Officer, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge
Email: erm1001@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/
Ignorance and deception can't save anybody. *Knowing* saves them.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 24 Feb 2005 14:39:14 +0100, Jakob Creutzig
<creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
>
>> [ Yet another annoying suggestion : ]
>>
>> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail, should
>> be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
> Well, why not. But let's get more nasty twists into that.
> Since a GDSM won't let magic inside, why should it let
> magic *outside*? I submit that GDSM makes spell--casting
> impossible; similarly, Red DSM should make fire spells
> impossible etc.. (Yeah, I know that red dragons can breathe
> fire, but that's not the same way of fire-magic in my book).

<snip>

Perhaps the wizard's hands sticking out the end of his sleeves can still
successfully channel the magic appropriately. Otherwise a CoMR shouldn't
either. Hmm :)

Ant :)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Martin Read wrote:
> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>> I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail,
>> should be metallic, not "hide" type armour.

>> After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
>> colour but an ore.

> Silver dragon hide has no discernable metallic silver content, as you
> can determine by talking to a vampire while polymorphed into a silver
> dragon.

Ah yes. The source code comment going with that is quite clear, as well:

/* Silver dragons are silver in color, not made of silver */


--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

begin quoting Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>:
>Well, why not. But let's get more nasty twists into that.
>Since a GDSM won't let magic inside, why should it let
>magic *outside*?

It doesn't; but all the chanty-chanty and mumbly-mumbly is done outside
the armour. Of course this means that death rays can still kill your head,
but that's life. 🙂
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Gouday, February.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Martin Read wrote:
>
>>"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>
>
>>>I think silver dragon scale mail, contrary to other scale mail,
>>>should be metallic, not "hide" type armour.
>
>
>>>After all, all other scale mail has a colour, while silver is not a
>>>colour but an ore.
>
>
>>Silver dragon hide has no discernable metallic silver content, as you
>>can determine by talking to a vampire while polymorphed into a silver
>>dragon.
>
>
> Ah yes. The source code comment going with that is quite clear, as well:
>
> /* Silver dragons are silver in color, not made of silver */

I thought you knew that and your suggestion was to change it?
--
Klaus Kassner
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Klaus Kassner wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>> Ah yes. The source code comment going with that is quite clear, as
>> well:

>> /* Silver dragons are silver in color, not made of silver */

> I thought you knew that and your suggestion was to change it?

I did, and it was, but the fact that there is a source code comment
specifically addressing this means the Dev Team have most probably
already considered this, and rejected it.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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