Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
Hi all,
I just can't seem to get enough punishment; not only do I return again and
again to Crawl, I have to play DECj's on top of it. To ease things a bit, I
often start-scum for the ones with the Fire/Earth book (though I recently
realized that Ice/Air, though perhaps weaker, are easier skills for a DE to
learn). My latest one has gotten farther than I've gotten, I think, despite
so many near-death experiences I've lost count. It would be really cool if
this one is The One, and so I humbly ask y'all's advice in helping achieve
that sublime state of affairs.
My idea for a basic plan is:
- A transclocating, forewarned (Divinations) earth/fire conjurer, with
Summoning as an ace up its sleeve.
- Diving each branch until things get Really Hairy (tm), then switching to
whatever other branch suits my fancy until it, too, gets Really Hairy. Repeat
ad nauseum.
My main questions are:
- Does the penalty for more than three "main" magic schools cause XP to be
allocated less *efficiently*, or just less often? So far I've been counting
on the former.
- Does the penalty still apply if both of a character's "bottom two" schools
are tied for skill level? So far I've been counting on it not applying in
such a situation.
- Assuming my assumptions above are right, the most efficient thing to do is
to almost always have two schools tied for bottom. So far, I've picked
translocations and summoning for these. Any thoughts on the choice?
---
Incidentally, I would like hereby to deeply thank Darshan for opening up the
(horrid) beauties of this game for me by removing the annoyances that would
otherwise prevent me from playing it. I would be missing out on a lot.
---
[heavily snipped dump and .lst file follow]
Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
Tim the Destroyer (Deep Elf)
/// "There are some who call me... 'Tim'?"
(Level 15 Conjurer)
Play time: 16:12:50 Number of turns: 72554
/// Egads, a full waking day on this fellow and he's not even past D:12. No
wonder I have no social life ;-)
Experience : 15/106173
Strength 7 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 26
Hit Points : 61/65 Magic Points : 13/47
AC : 22 Evasion : 12 Shield : 6
GP : 28
You are in the Elven Halls.
/// Not a very friendly place to be with 13 MP... I really should monitor
these more...
You worship Sif Muna.
/// Yadda yadda Vehumet yadda yadda. I'm still a relative newbie and I find
the extra flexibility from SM's Forget Spell to be tremendously helpful if I
screw up -- for example, I learned the pointless Summon Small Mammals to
train summoning, and was able to free it up to learn something more useful.
Sif Muna is exalted by your worship.
/// And showers me with more duplicate spellbooks than Commander Taco.
Inventory:
Hand weapons
o - the +6,+0 bow of Demand
/// Shop. Perhaps a mistake.
v - a +4,+5 dagger of protection (weapon)
/// Still waiting for a staff, ANY staff. But otherwise... I shouldn't bother
with any other weapon than "of protection," right? I've found some other
brands on short blades, but so far have been faithful to this dagger.
Missiles
I - 22 +0 arrows
N - 14 +3 elven arrows of ice
/// Shop. Perhaps a mistake.
Armour
b - a +1 shield of protection (worn)
It protects its wearer from harm (+3 to AC).
/// Yes, I realize that it hinders spellcasting. In my character's concrete
situation, though, it only seems to cause trouble for Identify, and there I
can just take it off for that spell. On the other hand I'll eventually be
wielding a staff, and switching to dagger+shield in mid-battle is kind of
iffy and silly. So I'm not sure what to do, and for the moment I'm slugging
onwards as-is.
n - the +2 pair of gloves of the Loofah (worn)
Armour rating: 1
Evasion modifier: +0
It greatly protects you from cold.
A - a +1 dwarven cloak (worn)
D - a +2 elven leather armour (worn)
J - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
k - a wand of flame (22)
q - a wand of paralysis (2)
r - a wand of disintegration (8)
H - a wand of digging (7)
Comestibles
i - 4 chokos
B - a chunk of elf flesh
E - an orange
O - a pear
U - a meat ration
///Hmm, time to stash some food I guess.
Scrolls
c - 5 scrolls of teleportation
l - 9 scrolls of remove curse
s - 5 scrolls of detect curse
u - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
w - a scroll of summoning
F - 2 scrolls of identify
Q - 5 scrolls of recharging
Jewellery
d - an uncursed ring of sustenance
This ring provides energy to its wearer, so that they need eat less often.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.
/// This little bauble is probably the main reason I've made it this far --
being able to take my time is a wonderful thing. (The amulet of the gourmand
coming up is something I acquired much later.)
e - a ring of magical power (left hand)
This ring increases its wearer's reserves of magical power.
/// I've heard it said that these aren't worth wearing, but I can't see
what's non-valuable about a 27% increase to max MP...
f - a ring of life protection
g - the amulet "Fijul Nyte" (around neck)
This amulet protects some of the possessions of its wearer from outright
destruction, but not infallibly so.
It protects you from poison.
h - a ring of wizardry (right hand)
p - an amulet of the gourmand
Potions
j - 2 potions of heal wounds
m - a potion of levitation
t - a potion of healing
x - 5 potions of restore abilities
G - 2 potions of speed
K - 6 potions of might
Books
R - a book of Divinations
Skills:
- Level 2 Fighting
/// I've heard this is debatable for a spellcaster? I dunno; the extra hit
points have saved my life several times, though I guess it could be argued
that with greater skill somewhere else, I would never have needed the buffer.
- Level 2 Short Blades
- Level 1 Staves
+ Level 6 Dodging
+ Level 5 Stealth
+ Level 1 Shields
+ Level 15 Spellcasting
+ Level 16 Conjurations
+ Level 4 Summonings
+ Level 4 Translocations
+ Level 8 Divinations
+ Level 12 Fire Magic
+ Level 12 Earth Magic
+ Level 2 Evocations
/// Oops...
You have 2 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Teleport Self Translocation Good 5
b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Perfect 2
c - Stone Arrow Earth/Conjuration Excellent 3
d - Conjure Flame Fire/Conjuration Excellent 3
e - Bolt of Magma Fire/Earth/Conjuration Excellent 5
f - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Great 6
g - Detect Creatures Divination Excellent 2
///Ditch? I'm not using it much, and it would help me learn Iron Bolt sooner,
but maybe I just haven't given it a chance...
h - Magic Mapping Earth/Divination Excellent 4
i - Summon Elemental Summoning Very Good 4
/// Much more useful than I expected -- I'm getting almost exclusively
friendly earth elementals.
j - Identify Divination Good 6
k - Blink Translocation Great 2
Mutations & Other Weirdness
You enjoy playing Russian Roulette (Mutations +6).
You have tough skin (AC +1).
You are agile (Dex +1).
You are partially covered in supple grey scales (AC + 1).
You have a slow metabolism.
/// W00t!!!
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
You can spit poison.
/// Heh, forgot about this one.
You occasionally forget where you are.
/// Nasty (especially since it interferes with the Travel command), but
livable. I got this when quaff-ID'ing potions very early on, not from my
later Russian Roulette.
You are partially covered in brown scales (AC + 2).
###
Selections from .lst file:
books, not counting dupes, perhaps missing some books that aren't called a
"book" -
a book of Air
a book of Conjurations
a book of Enchantments
a book of Power
a book of Clouds
a book of Wizardry
a book of Frost
a book of Death
a book of Control
a book of Minor Magic
a Monster Manual
Other:
the +3 ring mail "Ufev Hekime"
A leather suit covered in little rings.
Armour rating: 4
Evasion modifier: -2
It affects your strength (+3).
It affects your dexterity (+2).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
/// Oops, forgot to sac this...
a +0 dwarven buckler
/// nothing special here, but I was just wondering -- cloaks don't count as
body armor, right? I hope not, since I'm wearing a dwarven cloak, and dwarven
body armor hinders casting. I guess I could just take it off and check, but I
keep forgetting...
a ring of regeneration
a ring of levitation
a +3 ring of intelligence
13 honeycombs
/// Thanks, bees!
a wand of confusion (1)
a troll hide
a scroll of vorpalise weapon
2 scrolls of magic mapping
3 scrolls of identify
3 scrolls of enchant weapon II
a wand of polymorph other
a small ebony casket
a crystal ball of energy
an amulet of controlled flight
a wand of slowing
a wand of polymorph other
a wand of polymorph other
Selected shop items:
Level 8 of the Dungeon
Gyhidyl's Jewellery Shop
a +1 ring of evasion (154 gold)
an amulet of warding (231 gold)
the ring of Shaolin (770 gold)
It affects your evasion (+8).
an amulet of resist slowing (231 gold)
an amulet of resist slowing (231 gold)
a ring of sustenance (192 gold)
a ring of protection from magic (308 gold)
an amulet of resist mutation (231 gold)
Level 1 of the Lair
Beleczyhete's Jewellery Shop
a ring of sustain abilities (192 gold)
a +2 ring of strength (231 gold)
a ring of ice (477 gold)
a +4 ring of strength (385 gold)
an amulet of warding (231 gold)
the amulet of Cekugob (685 gold)
[ofWarding]
It affects your AC (+1).
It affects your evasion (+1).
It insulates you from electricity.
It protects you from poison.
It partially protects you from negative energy.
It prevents most forms of teleportation.
It speeds your metabolism.
a +4 ring of protection (385 gold)
an amulet of resist slowing (231 gold)
the amulet of Fun (539 gold)
[rMutations]
It insulates you from electricity.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.
the cursed necklace of Bloodlust (261 gold)
[blah blah pointless]
Level 6 of the Lair
W Sic Lywy's Armour Shop
the +3 robe of Vupiselatox (495 gold)
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+4).
It protects you from poison.
It enhances your eyesight.
It glows with mutagenic radiation.
a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (241 gold)
It increases the dexterity of its wearer (+3 to dexterity).
Level 2 of the Elven Halls
Cos Roto's Jewellery Shop
an amulet of resist slowing (315 gold)
a +3 ring of protection (420 gold)
a +2 ring of intelligence (315 gold)
a +4 ring of dexterity (525 gold)
a +2 ring of dexterity (315 gold)
the amulet "Wiwupy" (577 gold)
[ofGourmand]
It protects you from fire.
Level 3 of the Swamp
So's Magical Wand Shop
a wand of frost (6) (71 gold)
a wand of confusion (6) (92 gold)
a wand of slowing (10) (168 gold)
a wand of slowing (3) (79 gold)
a wand of fireball (10) (294 gold)
a wand of confusion (11) (134 gold)
a wand of disintegration (8) (205 gold)
a wand of confusion (12) (142 gold)
a wand of digging (7) (100 gold)
Vanquished Creatures
2 acid blobs (Slime:1)
/// Yuck. Any point in going there naked or such?
A sphinx (shapeshifter) (D:11)
/// Lured up from D:12. Is there such a thing as a shapeshifter pit? I think
I saw more than one on that level, but I didn't stick around long to check...
A moth of wrath (shapeshifter) (D:12)
An eye of devastation (shapeshifter) (D:12)
/// See what I mean?
14 insubstantial wisps
/// That many???
A giant frog (shapeshifter) (D:12)
/// Didn't notice this one...
Ijyb (D:4)
A butterfly (Swamp:2)
/// How cute!
20 fungi
4 plants
/// I was too lazy to turn on Darshan's "don't target 0-XP monsters" setting,
so I just subjected these to my wrath... and then there were the ones I
bashed on to practice fighting skill.
Hi all,
I just can't seem to get enough punishment; not only do I return again and
again to Crawl, I have to play DECj's on top of it. To ease things a bit, I
often start-scum for the ones with the Fire/Earth book (though I recently
realized that Ice/Air, though perhaps weaker, are easier skills for a DE to
learn). My latest one has gotten farther than I've gotten, I think, despite
so many near-death experiences I've lost count. It would be really cool if
this one is The One, and so I humbly ask y'all's advice in helping achieve
that sublime state of affairs.
My idea for a basic plan is:
- A transclocating, forewarned (Divinations) earth/fire conjurer, with
Summoning as an ace up its sleeve.
- Diving each branch until things get Really Hairy (tm), then switching to
whatever other branch suits my fancy until it, too, gets Really Hairy. Repeat
ad nauseum.
My main questions are:
- Does the penalty for more than three "main" magic schools cause XP to be
allocated less *efficiently*, or just less often? So far I've been counting
on the former.
- Does the penalty still apply if both of a character's "bottom two" schools
are tied for skill level? So far I've been counting on it not applying in
such a situation.
- Assuming my assumptions above are right, the most efficient thing to do is
to almost always have two schools tied for bottom. So far, I've picked
translocations and summoning for these. Any thoughts on the choice?
---
Incidentally, I would like hereby to deeply thank Darshan for opening up the
(horrid) beauties of this game for me by removing the annoyances that would
otherwise prevent me from playing it. I would be missing out on a lot.
---
[heavily snipped dump and .lst file follow]
Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
Tim the Destroyer (Deep Elf)
/// "There are some who call me... 'Tim'?"
(Level 15 Conjurer)
Play time: 16:12:50 Number of turns: 72554
/// Egads, a full waking day on this fellow and he's not even past D:12. No
wonder I have no social life ;-)
Experience : 15/106173
Strength 7 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 26
Hit Points : 61/65 Magic Points : 13/47
AC : 22 Evasion : 12 Shield : 6
GP : 28
You are in the Elven Halls.
/// Not a very friendly place to be with 13 MP... I really should monitor
these more...
You worship Sif Muna.
/// Yadda yadda Vehumet yadda yadda. I'm still a relative newbie and I find
the extra flexibility from SM's Forget Spell to be tremendously helpful if I
screw up -- for example, I learned the pointless Summon Small Mammals to
train summoning, and was able to free it up to learn something more useful.
Sif Muna is exalted by your worship.
/// And showers me with more duplicate spellbooks than Commander Taco.
Inventory:
Hand weapons
o - the +6,+0 bow of Demand
/// Shop. Perhaps a mistake.
v - a +4,+5 dagger of protection (weapon)
/// Still waiting for a staff, ANY staff. But otherwise... I shouldn't bother
with any other weapon than "of protection," right? I've found some other
brands on short blades, but so far have been faithful to this dagger.
Missiles
I - 22 +0 arrows
N - 14 +3 elven arrows of ice
/// Shop. Perhaps a mistake.
Armour
b - a +1 shield of protection (worn)
It protects its wearer from harm (+3 to AC).
/// Yes, I realize that it hinders spellcasting. In my character's concrete
situation, though, it only seems to cause trouble for Identify, and there I
can just take it off for that spell. On the other hand I'll eventually be
wielding a staff, and switching to dagger+shield in mid-battle is kind of
iffy and silly. So I'm not sure what to do, and for the moment I'm slugging
onwards as-is.
n - the +2 pair of gloves of the Loofah (worn)
Armour rating: 1
Evasion modifier: +0
It greatly protects you from cold.
A - a +1 dwarven cloak (worn)
D - a +2 elven leather armour (worn)
J - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
k - a wand of flame (22)
q - a wand of paralysis (2)
r - a wand of disintegration (8)
H - a wand of digging (7)
Comestibles
i - 4 chokos
B - a chunk of elf flesh
E - an orange
O - a pear
U - a meat ration
///Hmm, time to stash some food I guess.
Scrolls
c - 5 scrolls of teleportation
l - 9 scrolls of remove curse
s - 5 scrolls of detect curse
u - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
w - a scroll of summoning
F - 2 scrolls of identify
Q - 5 scrolls of recharging
Jewellery
d - an uncursed ring of sustenance
This ring provides energy to its wearer, so that they need eat less often.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.
/// This little bauble is probably the main reason I've made it this far --
being able to take my time is a wonderful thing. (The amulet of the gourmand
coming up is something I acquired much later.)
e - a ring of magical power (left hand)
This ring increases its wearer's reserves of magical power.
/// I've heard it said that these aren't worth wearing, but I can't see
what's non-valuable about a 27% increase to max MP...
f - a ring of life protection
g - the amulet "Fijul Nyte" (around neck)
This amulet protects some of the possessions of its wearer from outright
destruction, but not infallibly so.
It protects you from poison.
h - a ring of wizardry (right hand)
p - an amulet of the gourmand
Potions
j - 2 potions of heal wounds
m - a potion of levitation
t - a potion of healing
x - 5 potions of restore abilities
G - 2 potions of speed
K - 6 potions of might
Books
R - a book of Divinations
Skills:
- Level 2 Fighting
/// I've heard this is debatable for a spellcaster? I dunno; the extra hit
points have saved my life several times, though I guess it could be argued
that with greater skill somewhere else, I would never have needed the buffer.
- Level 2 Short Blades
- Level 1 Staves
+ Level 6 Dodging
+ Level 5 Stealth
+ Level 1 Shields
+ Level 15 Spellcasting
+ Level 16 Conjurations
+ Level 4 Summonings
+ Level 4 Translocations
+ Level 8 Divinations
+ Level 12 Fire Magic
+ Level 12 Earth Magic
+ Level 2 Evocations
/// Oops...
You have 2 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Teleport Self Translocation Good 5
b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Perfect 2
c - Stone Arrow Earth/Conjuration Excellent 3
d - Conjure Flame Fire/Conjuration Excellent 3
e - Bolt of Magma Fire/Earth/Conjuration Excellent 5
f - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Great 6
g - Detect Creatures Divination Excellent 2
///Ditch? I'm not using it much, and it would help me learn Iron Bolt sooner,
but maybe I just haven't given it a chance...
h - Magic Mapping Earth/Divination Excellent 4
i - Summon Elemental Summoning Very Good 4
/// Much more useful than I expected -- I'm getting almost exclusively
friendly earth elementals.
j - Identify Divination Good 6
k - Blink Translocation Great 2
Mutations & Other Weirdness
You enjoy playing Russian Roulette (Mutations +6).
You have tough skin (AC +1).
You are agile (Dex +1).
You are partially covered in supple grey scales (AC + 1).
You have a slow metabolism.
/// W00t!!!
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
You can spit poison.
/// Heh, forgot about this one.
You occasionally forget where you are.
/// Nasty (especially since it interferes with the Travel command), but
livable. I got this when quaff-ID'ing potions very early on, not from my
later Russian Roulette.
You are partially covered in brown scales (AC + 2).
###
Selections from .lst file:
books, not counting dupes, perhaps missing some books that aren't called a
"book" -
a book of Air
a book of Conjurations
a book of Enchantments
a book of Power
a book of Clouds
a book of Wizardry
a book of Frost
a book of Death
a book of Control
a book of Minor Magic
a Monster Manual
Other:
the +3 ring mail "Ufev Hekime"
A leather suit covered in little rings.
Armour rating: 4
Evasion modifier: -2
It affects your strength (+3).
It affects your dexterity (+2).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
/// Oops, forgot to sac this...
a +0 dwarven buckler
/// nothing special here, but I was just wondering -- cloaks don't count as
body armor, right? I hope not, since I'm wearing a dwarven cloak, and dwarven
body armor hinders casting. I guess I could just take it off and check, but I
keep forgetting...
a ring of regeneration
a ring of levitation
a +3 ring of intelligence
13 honeycombs
/// Thanks, bees!
a wand of confusion (1)
a troll hide
a scroll of vorpalise weapon
2 scrolls of magic mapping
3 scrolls of identify
3 scrolls of enchant weapon II
a wand of polymorph other
a small ebony casket
a crystal ball of energy
an amulet of controlled flight
a wand of slowing
a wand of polymorph other
a wand of polymorph other
Selected shop items:
Level 8 of the Dungeon
Gyhidyl's Jewellery Shop
a +1 ring of evasion (154 gold)
an amulet of warding (231 gold)
the ring of Shaolin (770 gold)
It affects your evasion (+8).
an amulet of resist slowing (231 gold)
an amulet of resist slowing (231 gold)
a ring of sustenance (192 gold)
a ring of protection from magic (308 gold)
an amulet of resist mutation (231 gold)
Level 1 of the Lair
Beleczyhete's Jewellery Shop
a ring of sustain abilities (192 gold)
a +2 ring of strength (231 gold)
a ring of ice (477 gold)
a +4 ring of strength (385 gold)
an amulet of warding (231 gold)
the amulet of Cekugob (685 gold)
[ofWarding]
It affects your AC (+1).
It affects your evasion (+1).
It insulates you from electricity.
It protects you from poison.
It partially protects you from negative energy.
It prevents most forms of teleportation.
It speeds your metabolism.
a +4 ring of protection (385 gold)
an amulet of resist slowing (231 gold)
the amulet of Fun (539 gold)
[rMutations]
It insulates you from electricity.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.
the cursed necklace of Bloodlust (261 gold)
[blah blah pointless]
Level 6 of the Lair
W Sic Lywy's Armour Shop
the +3 robe of Vupiselatox (495 gold)
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+4).
It protects you from poison.
It enhances your eyesight.
It glows with mutagenic radiation.
a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (241 gold)
It increases the dexterity of its wearer (+3 to dexterity).
Level 2 of the Elven Halls
Cos Roto's Jewellery Shop
an amulet of resist slowing (315 gold)
a +3 ring of protection (420 gold)
a +2 ring of intelligence (315 gold)
a +4 ring of dexterity (525 gold)
a +2 ring of dexterity (315 gold)
the amulet "Wiwupy" (577 gold)
[ofGourmand]
It protects you from fire.
Level 3 of the Swamp
So's Magical Wand Shop
a wand of frost (6) (71 gold)
a wand of confusion (6) (92 gold)
a wand of slowing (10) (168 gold)
a wand of slowing (3) (79 gold)
a wand of fireball (10) (294 gold)
a wand of confusion (11) (134 gold)
a wand of disintegration (8) (205 gold)
a wand of confusion (12) (142 gold)
a wand of digging (7) (100 gold)
Vanquished Creatures
2 acid blobs (Slime:1)
/// Yuck. Any point in going there naked or such?
A sphinx (shapeshifter) (D:11)
/// Lured up from D:12. Is there such a thing as a shapeshifter pit? I think
I saw more than one on that level, but I didn't stick around long to check...
A moth of wrath (shapeshifter) (D:12)
An eye of devastation (shapeshifter) (D:12)
/// See what I mean?
14 insubstantial wisps
/// That many???
A giant frog (shapeshifter) (D:12)
/// Didn't notice this one...
Ijyb (D:4)
A butterfly (Swamp:2)
/// How cute!
20 fungi
4 plants
/// I was too lazy to turn on Darshan's "don't target 0-XP monsters" setting,
so I just subjected these to my wrath... and then there were the ones I
bashed on to practice fighting skill.
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