Yoke question regarding Rudder control without pedals

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Me again...
I've been looking for a Yoke and have seen the CH products item which seems to have most of what I want but how do you control the
rudder without the pedals.
With a joystick you have the twist grip for Rudder control.
Question is this... If I get the yoke on it's own... am I going to have no rudder control (apart from keyboard) unless I also get
the pedals?

TIA

 

[crash]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Anthro wrote:
> Me again...
> I've been looking for a Yoke and have seen the CH products item which
> seems to have most of what I want but how do you control the rudder
> without the pedals.
> With a joystick you have the twist grip for Rudder control.
> Question is this... If I get the yoke on it's own... am I going to
> have no rudder control (apart from keyboard) unless I also get the
> pedals?
>

If you're getting the yoke, get the Pro Pedals - especially with your
system, it'd be criminal not to!!!
Otherwise you can just check 'autorudder' in the settings - forget using the
keyboard for this NFG...

Cheers'n Beers.. [_])
Don

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Never tried auto rudder.. will that keep me straight down the runway during takeoff? And if so, would that mean lining up especially
accurate for takeoff as there would be no correction possible after throttle up? because that's the only time I really ever use
rudder. Can't really see how else to use rudder during flight because when it's engaged it has the appearance of changing direction
but it doesn't do much because when it's released again... the direction just springs back to where you were heading previously,
before engaging it (Unless you hold it for a very long time for a very subtle change in direction). I understand why because of the
momentum in direction and that is the purpose of the rudder to stabilise the yaw. So I've never used it off the ground for that
reason. Sometimes I'll stab the rudder during touchdown just to lessen the crab a bit if it's a bit windy.
I just get the feeling, if I go ahead and get the Yoke.. I'll end up switching back to joystick until I can afford the pedals to go
with it because I'm so use to having that essential yaw control at those few seconds when it's really needed.
I know there's a lot of buttons that are configurable on the CH Yoke but that Rudder really needs an analogue input so no amount of
buttons will help the situation.

TIA

I'll grab the pedals when I clear my debts which is going to be several months
"CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message news:6g%0e.5827$Dz4.1008@okepread01...
> Anthro wrote:
> > Me again...
> > I've been looking for a Yoke and have seen the CH products item which
> > seems to have most of what I want but how do you control the rudder
> > without the pedals.
> > With a joystick you have the twist grip for Rudder control.
> > Question is this... If I get the yoke on it's own... am I going to
> > have no rudder control (apart from keyboard) unless I also get the
> > pedals?
> >
>
> If you're getting the yoke, get the Pro Pedals - especially with your
> system, it'd be criminal not to!!!
> Otherwise you can just check 'autorudder' in the settings - forget using the
> keyboard for this NFG...
>
> Cheers'n Beers.. [_])
> Don
>
>

 

[crash]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Anthro wrote:
> Never tried auto rudder.. will that keep me straight down the runway
> during takeoff?

With autorudder, taxiing is just like driving a car, and done with the yoke
or joystick, want to go left, turn the yoke left or lean left on the
joystick - after you're in the air, the rudder movement is done for you to
keep the turn coordinated.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Anthro,

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:47:47 -0000, you wrote:

> Never tried auto rudder.. will that keep me straight down the runway
> during takeoff?

I'm not sure, as I've never used "auto rudder" (I use CH Pro pedals
along with either the CH yoke or a joystick, depending on the plane).

> And if so, would that mean lining up especially accurate for takeoff
> as there would be no correction possible after throttle up? because
> that's the only time I really ever use rudder. Can't really see how
> else to use rudder during flight because when it's engaged it has
> the appearance of changing direction but it doesn't do much because
> when it's released again... the direction just springs back to
> where you were heading previously,

Eek! The rudder has some very important uses in flight. The most
obvious being to keep your turns "coordinated". Basically this means
to keep the nose pointing properly in the direction of the turn.

Remember that little "ball" in the Turn Coordinator that swings to the
right or left as you turn? That's the "inclinometer" (aka "rudder
ball"). As you bank the plane to turn, you'll notice this little
ball moving either to the right or to the left (depending on which
direction you're banking). When it's not centered, this means that
you need to adjust your rudder in order to bring your plane into a
nicely "coordinated turn". If the ball swings to the right, apply
enough right rudder pedal to bring it back to center. If the ball
swings to the left, apply left rudder pedal accordingly.

After a while, especially if you have rudder pedals, this will become
second nature to a degree, and you won't have to constantly stare at
the swinging ball. In VFR flight, in spite of the habits so easily
picked up in the sim, we're supposed to spend more time looking out
the windows than staring at the gauges in order to determine our
proper flight attitude. Sort of like VDR (Visual Driving Rules) for
car driving!

The rudder is used in other aspects of flying as well, especially when
you get into aerobatics. Don't give up on the rudder so easily!

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.willkayakforfood.tk

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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The easiest way to remember which rudder to push is the old adage my first
instructor taught me back in 1959 for getting the ball centered: "Step on
the ball" Then you will never have to go through the mental gymnastics of
trying to think: "is it right rudder I need to push or left rudder"

Hope this helps.

Paul

"Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1319txj4gclpx$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Hi Anthro,
>
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:47:47 -0000, you wrote:
>
>> Never tried auto rudder.. will that keep me straight down the runway
>> during takeoff?
>
> I'm not sure, as I've never used "auto rudder" (I use CH Pro pedals
> along with either the CH yoke or a joystick, depending on the plane).
>
>> And if so, would that mean lining up especially accurate for takeoff
>> as there would be no correction possible after throttle up? because
>> that's the only time I really ever use rudder. Can't really see how
>> else to use rudder during flight because when it's engaged it has
>> the appearance of changing direction but it doesn't do much because
>> when it's released again... the direction just springs back to
>> where you were heading previously,
>
> Eek! The rudder has some very important uses in flight. The most
> obvious being to keep your turns "coordinated". Basically this means
> to keep the nose pointing properly in the direction of the turn.
>
> Remember that little "ball" in the Turn Coordinator that swings to the
> right or left as you turn? That's the "inclinometer" (aka "rudder
> ball"). As you bank the plane to turn, you'll notice this little
> ball moving either to the right or to the left (depending on which
> direction you're banking). When it's not centered, this means that
> you need to adjust your rudder in order to bring your plane into a
> nicely "coordinated turn". If the ball swings to the right, apply
> enough right rudder pedal to bring it back to center. If the ball
> swings to the left, apply left rudder pedal accordingly.
>
> After a while, especially if you have rudder pedals, this will become
> second nature to a degree, and you won't have to constantly stare at
> the swinging ball. In VFR flight, in spite of the habits so easily
> picked up in the sim, we're supposed to spend more time looking out
> the windows than staring at the gauges in order to determine our
> proper flight attitude. Sort of like VDR (Visual Driving Rules) for
> car driving!
>
> The rudder is used in other aspects of flying as well, especially when
> you get into aerobatics. Don't give up on the rudder so easily!
>
> - --
> Melissa
>
> PGP Public Keys: http://www.willkayakforfood.tk
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQCVAwUBQkTDTTEYqNTZBqoEAQPm8gP/WXQTmlsRtdlMBoPx3V4HxKNFypHMW9PK
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> 9iCADfMVft4=
> =pLLi
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Well I have used auto-rudder... I don't like it one bit. As it takes
away from the realism! Well it is real, but without the pilot actually
taking control of it. Back in the days when I was flying, I was told to
keep the ball in the center. Although I learned later that this isn't
what I want to do all of the time. As it is great for special effects!

For example, when you have one shot to land for whatever reason. No
rudder control can cause you to crash! And doing such things as a search
a rescue missions, the view is the more important than watching the
ball. Flying fixed wing without rudder control is one thing. But us heli
pilots, it's a must!


Cheers!


___________________________________________
Bill (using a HP AMD 1.2GHZ & Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within Word 2000

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Paul Riley" <Falcon63624@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:-8WdnXqkQLr1QdnfRVn-vw@sirinet.net...
> The easiest way to remember which rudder to push is the old adage my first
> instructor taught me back in 1959 for getting the ball centered: "Step on
> the ball" Then you will never have to go through the mental gymnastics
> of trying to think: "is it right rudder I need to push or left rudder"
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Paul
>
> "Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:1319txj4gclpx$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>
>> Hi Anthro,
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:47:47 -0000, you wrote:
>>
>>> Never tried auto rudder.. will that keep me straight down the runway
>>> during takeoff?
>>
>> I'm not sure, as I've never used "auto rudder" (I use CH Pro pedals
>> along with either the CH yoke or a joystick, depending on the plane).
>>
>>> And if so, would that mean lining up especially accurate for takeoff
>>> as there would be no correction possible after throttle up? because
>>> that's the only time I really ever use rudder. Can't really see how
>>> else to use rudder during flight because when it's engaged it has
>>> the appearance of changing direction but it doesn't do much because
>>> when it's released again... the direction just springs back to
>>> where you were heading previously,
>>
>> Eek! The rudder has some very important uses in flight. The most
>> obvious being to keep your turns "coordinated". Basically this means
>> to keep the nose pointing properly in the direction of the turn.
>>
>> Remember that little "ball" in the Turn Coordinator that swings to the
>> right or left as you turn? That's the "inclinometer" (aka "rudder
>> ball"). As you bank the plane to turn, you'll notice this little
>> ball moving either to the right or to the left (depending on which
>> direction you're banking). When it's not centered, this means that
>> you need to adjust your rudder in order to bring your plane into a
>> nicely "coordinated turn". If the ball swings to the right, apply
>> enough right rudder pedal to bring it back to center. If the ball
>> swings to the left, apply left rudder pedal accordingly.
>>
>> After a while, especially if you have rudder pedals, this will become
>> second nature to a degree, and you won't have to constantly stare at
>> the swinging ball. In VFR flight, in spite of the habits so easily
>> picked up in the sim, we're supposed to spend more time looking out
>> the windows than staring at the gauges in order to determine our
>> proper flight attitude. Sort of like VDR (Visual Driving Rules) for
>> car driving!
>>
>> The rudder is used in other aspects of flying as well, especially when
>> you get into aerobatics. Don't give up on the rudder so easily!
>>
>> - --
>> Melissa
>>
>> PGP Public Keys: http://www.willkayakforfood.tk
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> iQCVAwUBQkTDTTEYqNTZBqoEAQPm8gP/WXQTmlsRtdlMBoPx3V4HxKNFypHMW9PK
>> RaR5n7SOhJ5YkEkodDsohanNe0P6NH9Zyc/+Wu1bcV81xhEb/xwfm3/mM9zfSFgq
>> UmVbsGm20qUZULbNyHRDFAT1eYiZqaXHtix68iwNo+bZGSTPX/BfsA134TKZalph
>> 9iCADfMVft4=
>> =pLLi
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
Maybe a small contribution to the neverending story of "flying with
rudder"... ;-)))
In R/L you very rarely use rudder for turn coordination as in almost every
A/C this is done by the 'adverse yaw' compensation of the ailerons! Rudder
is mainly used during take-off (to correct for propwash, P-factor and
torque) and during initial-climb out with high performance single-engine
A/C. Then of course for yaw compensation on multiengine A/C in case of
engine failure. During short final rudder will also be used for crosswind
compensation but - as stated before - usually never during normal flight.

Auto rudder has another negative aspects apart from 'overcoordinating'
turns. I remember an A/C in R/L - I guess it was an Ercoupe - which was
designed for (leg-) handicapped people. It had no rudder pedals and kind of
a spring-loaded auto rudder. Although it was very neat to fly it had a
crosswind-limit for T/O and landing of 5 KTS. The reason for that being
obious: if you compensate for the weathervane effect during T/O you do
exactly the wrong thing: you lift the windward wing! And that's the most
critical thing for any crosswind T/O.....believe me...... ;-)) and for
landing you had no chance to decrab as again you would lift the windward
wing.

So as a resumee if you don't really need it don't fly with auto rudder. It's
not a good idea and not realistic either.... ;-))
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...

 

[Bob]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner wrote:

>>
> Maybe a small contribution to the neverending story of "flying with
> rudder"... ;-)))
> In R/L you very rarely use rudder for turn coordination as in almost every
> A/C this is done by the 'adverse yaw' compensation of the ailerons! Rudder
> is mainly used during take-off (to correct for propwash, P-factor and
> torque) and during initial-climb out with high performance single-engine
> A/C. Then of course for yaw compensation on multiengine A/C in case of
> engine failure. During short final rudder will also be used for crosswind
> compensation but - as stated before - usually never during normal flight.
>
>
> So as a resumee if you don't really need it don't fly with auto rudder. It's
> not a good idea and not realistic either.... ;-))

Just an aside:

Everyone knows you meant fixed wing when you talked about not needing
rudder (pedals) during flight. Helicopters always need coordination of
cyclic, collective and pedals. Move one, and all must move (IRL).

But in the sim you can get away with autorudder (except hovering turns)
in helicopters because the aircraft doesn't respond correctly to
control movements.

This is already known but I'm sitting here at 4 AM with nothing to do
but watch the sun come up.
--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)