z77 Extreme4's Throttle Control? (Sandy Bridge)

[HateDread]

Hey guys,

My Extreme4 is throttling my i5-2400 when I overclock its multiplier (as a non-k chip can do, up to x38 on this one) - temps are good and voltage was set to 1.25v to give it plenty of juice.

I think I'm missing some options/settings here - what in the UEFI controls a stepping down like this? I changed the max power load stuff so it wouldn't freak when the overclock pulled more juice, but this is still occuring.

Thanks,
- HateDread.

EDIT: Future travellers: turn off the 'Disable Turbo' option in Realtemp!

 

[ingtar33]

the power saving/management/efficiency features need to be turned off.

 

[HateDread]

the power saving/management/efficiency features need to be turned off.

All the C-states under 'Advanced -> CPU', and Speedstep stuff in the OC Tweaker?

I can't seem to turn off Turbo Boost Technology, though, and even with all the power stuff turned off, I get throttled to the default x31 multi, even with good temps and plenty of juice.

 

[k1114]

You can keep the power saving stuff on. Is the max power stuff referring to long and short duration? Lower your vcore. Since ocing a non k is essentially turning up turbo, (the reason you can't turn off turbo) it could be seeing the high voltage as too much power above turbo limits and telling itself to disable. There should be no reason you can't stay at stock voltage at 3.8.

 

[HateDread]

You can keep the power saving stuff on. Is the max power stuff referring to long and short duration? Lower your vcore. Since ocing a non k is essentially turning up turbo, (the reason you can't turn off turbo) it could be seeing the high voltage as too much power above turbo limits and telling itself to disable. There should be no reason you can't stay at stock voltage at 3.8.

Yep, the long and short duration and limits. I upped them all so it wasn't a factor. I had thought a higher frequency = more voltage needed? I'll give that a go.

EDIT: Re-enabled power-saving, kept long and short duration values at max, set voltages to auto, multiplier to x38. I run IBT and watch in CPU-Z - my clock is 3.1Ghz with a x31 multi.

 

[k1114]

So it's not even coming on at all. Put multi back to stock and see if the stock turbo even comes on.

 

[ingtar33]

oi! you're overclocking a non-k cpu? That's your problem... the multiplier is fixed to a certain range... once you go outside of that the pc will scale it back automatically.

 

[HateDread]

So it's not even coming on at all. Put multi back to stock and see if the stock turbo even comes on.

Reset all settings to default in UEFI, multiplier stays at x31 during IBT.

@ingtar33 - As far as I'm aware, you can overclock the turbo multiplier of a non-k chip Just not by much (4 bins up, apparently).

 

[k1114]

Did you reset cmos?

 

[HateDread]

Did you reset cmos?

I did before I started overclocking, a few days ago. And this has been a problem all along (a few days). But I'll try it anyway in the next few days. Could a BIOS update fix this kind of problem?

 

[k1114]

It's not really an issue but rather something isn't set correctly.

 

[HateDread]

It's not really an issue but rather something isn't set correctly.

Just reset the CMOS... still locked at x31 with the stock settings. Any ideas? 🙁

 

[ingtar33]

It's not really an issue but rather something isn't set correctly.

Just reset the CMOS... still locked at x31 with the stock settings. Any ideas? 🙁

i said it earlier. this is a non-k series cpu, the settings are mostly locked.

 

[k1114]

Ingtar you can't be more incorrect. The non k are not locked from being changed, the only thing locked is the multiplier which can only be changed to adjust turbo 4 bins higher. Look at every sb or ib review and it'll tell you this. The mobo chipset will affect if other settings are locked from being changed. This also doesn't explain why his turbo is not coming on at all. In windows check your power options, make sure cpu max is set to 100%.

 

[ingtar33]

Ingtar you can't be more incorrect. The non k are not locked from being changed, the only thing locked is the multiplier which can only be changed to adjust turbo 4 bins higher. Look at every sb or ib review and it'll tell you this. The mobo chipset will affect if other settings are locked from being changed. This also doesn't explain why his turbo is not coming on at all. In windows check your power options, make sure cpu max is set to 100%.

now you're talkin' crazy. no windows setting will affect how the bios is behaving. Locked, non-k intel cpus have a LOCKED multiplier. the only way to overclock them is to overclock the BCLK (which i might add overclocks everything on the motherboard, so you won't be able to add more then +2 or +3 to it before you start to destabilize your system, which will then demand more juice before you can go more... this is similar to FSB overclocking on an AMD... only trick is, it also overclocks your SATA and PCI ports... which means you probably won't be able to go over +6 or +7 with it before things start to break and stop working).

the only multiplier unlocked on a non k series intel is the TURBO MODE Multiplier. Which is a different setting all together.

You might need to go back and actually overclock a non-k chip before giving someone advice in these forums.

Sidenote: using the turbo mode multiplier and BCLK, he probably can achieve an extra 10-20% performance. It's an overclock but its nothing like the 30%-50% overclocks you can get playing with the multiplier.

BTW: even playing with turbo mode isn't going to get him much... when more threads are in use turbo mode scales back... when all 4 cores are under use it basically returns to stock settings. So even playing with the turbo multiplier will only really boost his single thread performance when not multitasking.

Its these fine details that Tom's glosses over when they advise people to get non-k series cpus.

 

[HateDread]

Ingtar you can't be more incorrect. The non k are not locked from being changed, the only thing locked is the multiplier which can only be changed to adjust turbo 4 bins higher. Look at every sb or ib review and it'll tell you this. The mobo chipset will affect if other settings are locked from being changed. This also doesn't explain why his turbo is not coming on at all. In windows check your power options, make sure cpu max is set to 100%.

CPU max? Been looking for it but can't find it.

now you're talkin' crazy. no windows setting will affect how the bios is behaving. Locked, non-k intel cpus have a LOCKED multiplier. the only way to overclock them is to overclock the BCLK (which i might add overclocks everything on the motherboard, so you won't be able to add more then +2 or +3 to it before you start to destabilize your system, which will then demand more juice before you can go more... this is similar to FSB overclocking on an AMD... only trick is, it also overclocks your SATA and PCI ports... which means you probably won't be able to go over +6 or +7 with it before things start to break and stop working).

the only multiplier unlocked on a non k series intel is the TURBO MODE Multiplier. Which is a different setting all together.

You might need to go back and actually overclock a non-k chip before giving someone advice in these forums.

Sidenote: using the turbo mode multiplier and BCLK, he probably can achieve an extra 10-20% performance. It's an overclock but its nothing like the 30%-50% overclocks you can get playing with the multiplier.

BTW: even playing with turbo mode isn't going to get him much... when more threads are in use turbo mode scales back... when all 4 cores are under use it basically returns to stock settings. So even playing with the turbo multiplier will only really boost his single thread performance when not multitasking.

Its these fine details that Tom's glosses over when they advise people to get non-k series cpus.

I know this is working from a base clock of 3.3, so adjust the final numbers given for 4-core overclocking down by 0.2 to get the i5 2400.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/core-i5-2500-2400-2300/slide-5.png
And why would my CPU keep itself at x31 when we all know its default turbo settings should land it higher than that under load (3.2 ghz)? Plus, my z77 Extreme4 lets me set the multiplier up to x38, which is conveniently the amount one could get on a single core from the above picture... the CPU is telling the motherboard that this is okay? If it was completely not meant to happen, that is an awful coincidence.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i5-2500-2400-2300_11.html
Scroll down to the picture of the i5 2400 at x36.

Even if we forget overclocking, my CPU should turbo boost to x32 on its own, so there IS a problem here - let's not ignore that.

 

[ingtar33]

ugh. just reread the thread. i'm sorry k1114 & HateDread, apparently my reading comprehension skills suck cause i completely missed the issue here, and then promptly misunderstood the general conversation.

My bad, and my apologies.

Ok... lets reset here.

1) You're trying to Turbo Mode OC, and the bios is resetting your attempts
2) you turn off power saving features, same issue occures
3) you clrcmos, and suddenly can change the turbo multiplier, however...
4) when you try to test the overclock out, you find turbo isn't working at all
5) temps are fine, voltages are stock

that's basically where we are right?

 

[HateDread]

ugh. just reread the thread. i'm sorry k1114 & HateDread, apparently my reading comprehension skills suck cause i completely missed the issue here, and then promptly misunderstood the general conversation.

My bad, and my apologies.

Ok... lets reset here.

1) You're trying to Turbo Mode OC, and the bios is resetting your attempts
2) you turn off power saving features, same issue occures
3) you clrcmos, and suddenly can change the turbo multiplier, however...
4) when you try to test the overclock out, you find turbo isn't working at all
5) temps are fine, voltages are stock

that's basically where we are right?

All except #3 - I've been able to change the turbo multiplier since I got this board, but yes, those are correct.

EDIT: Oh and re. #1 - the BIOS keeps the higher multipliers when I revisit the UEFI... it's allowing and keeping the settings.

 

[ingtar33]

All except #3 - I've been able to change the turbo multiplier since I got this board, but yes, those are correct.

Alright some other questions -

1) have you tried it with lower turbo multipliers?
2) when you say turbo doesn't turn on, this is AFTER you upped the multiplier successfully in the bios, saved it, then confirmed the settings with 3rd party software?
3) windows 7 power saving features are off right? (control pannel>power options) Set it to High Performance, should disable any throttling win7 might try to inflict.

 

[HateDread]

All except #3 - I've been able to change the turbo multiplier since I got this board, but yes, those are correct.

Alright some other questions -

1) have you tried it with lower turbo multipliers?
2) when you say turbo doesn't turn on, this is AFTER you upped the multiplier successfully in the bios, saved it, then confirmed the settings with 3rd party software?
3) windows 7 power saving features are off right? (control pannel>power options) Set it to High Performance, should disable any throttling win7 might try to inflict.

1) Yepp, tried manually setting to x32, but still sticks at x31. On a few occasions, though, with a manually-set multiplier up towards x38, I see something like x35-36 in CPU-Z after booting, but it flickers away as the CPU throttles down due to low usage. When I use IBT to burn all cores, it only goes back up to x31, where it should at least hit x32.

2) How would you suggest I confirm that the BIOS has allowed the change? 3rd-party tweaking tool from Asrock themselves? I'll get on that right now.

3) Just changed that. No effect.

 

[ingtar33]

All except #3 - I've been able to change the turbo multiplier since I got this board, but yes, those are correct.

Alright some other questions -

1) have you tried it with lower turbo multipliers?
2) when you say turbo doesn't turn on, this is AFTER you upped the multiplier successfully in the bios, saved it, then confirmed the settings with 3rd party software?
3) windows 7 power saving features are off right? (control pannel>power options) Set it to High Performance, should disable any throttling win7 might try to inflict.

1) Yepp, tried manually setting to x32, but still sticks at x31. On a few occasions, though, with a manually-set multiplier up towards x38, I see something like x35-36 in CPU-Z after booting, but it flickers away as the CPU throttles down due to low usage. When I use IBT to burn all cores, it only goes back up to x31, where it should at least hit x32.

2) How would you suggest I confirm that the BIOS has allowed the change? 3rd-party tweaking tool from Asrock themselves? I'll get on that right now.

3) Just changed that. No effect.

um... sorta a stupid question, but the multipliers you're using, all even numbers?

cause i'm pretty sure SB cpus like odd number multipliers for reasons only a fortune teller could divine.

try it at 35... i'm pretty sure turbo overclocking can't go more then +4 or +6 anyway. lets do this step by step and see if we can't get it to work... heck start at 33 and see if the system will take it.

 

[HateDread]

um... sorta a stupid question, but the multipliers you're using, all even numbers?

cause i'm pretty sure SB cpus like odd number multipliers for reasons only a fortune teller could divine.

try it at 35... i'm pretty sure turbo overclocking can't go more then +4 or +6 anyway. lets do this step by step and see if we can't get it to work... heck start at 33 and see if the system will take it.

Just tried x33 as per your suggestion, with long and short duration limits set to max so any increased voltage doesn't trip a throttle response. Still reads x31 in CPU-Z. In fact, I now have a constant x31 - no stepping down to x16 when idle.

I thought that maybe the motherboard or CPU is supplying incorrect multiplier data to programs. Here's what I found, after setting each multiplier manually in UEFI/BIOS, running IBT 3 times each and averaging:

x31:
180.5s
x33:
177.72s
x38:
179.41s

Not distinct enough to suggest that the overclock is working behind the scenes.

Still x31 in CPU-Z, and in Intel's own 'turbo boost checker' the bar is only dark blue, only reading up to 3.1ghz, as opposed to the colours in the photo here: http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-031038.htm So maybe even Intel's tool is picking up a lack of turbo boost.

EDIT: Considering updating my BIOS. I have version P1.30 from 18/4/2012. Look how far behind I am, and notice all the 'Updated CPU code' notes for each update I'm missing: http://www.asrock.com/mb/download.asp?Model=Z77%20Extreme4&o=BIOS

 

[ingtar33]

first i'd update that bios. lets see what that does for you. you'll have to play with your multiplier again. if that doesn't work...

1) power saving mode is "off" in the bios right? (this shouldn't matter, but we'll play it safe to start)
2) what is your "Advanced Turbo" set to, on or off?
3) if you go into Control Pannel>Power Options>High Performance (advanced link)> Processor Power Management, what options do you have available?

 

[k1114]

Ingtar you can't be more incorrect. The non k are not locked from being changed, the only thing locked is the multiplier which can only be changed to adjust turbo 4 bins higher. Look at every sb or ib review and it'll tell you this. The mobo chipset will affect if other settings are locked from being changed. This also doesn't explain why his turbo is not coming on at all. In windows check your power options, make sure cpu max is set to 100%.

now you're talkin' crazy. no windows setting will affect how the bios is behaving. Locked, non-k intel cpus have a LOCKED multiplier. the only way to overclock them is to overclock the BCLK (which i might add overclocks everything on the motherboard, so you won't be able to add more then +2 or +3 to it before you start to destabilize your system, which will then demand more juice before you can go more... this is similar to FSB overclocking on an AMD... only trick is, it also overclocks your SATA and PCI ports... which means you probably won't be able to go over +6 or +7 with it before things start to break and stop working).

the only multiplier unlocked on a non k series intel is the TURBO MODE Multiplier. Which is a different setting all together.

You might need to go back and actually overclock a non-k chip before giving someone advice in these forums.

BTW: even playing with turbo mode isn't going to get him much... when more threads are in use turbo mode scales back... when all 4 cores are under use it basically returns to stock settings. So even playing with the turbo multiplier will only really boost his single thread performance when not multitasking.

I'm glad you admitted your reading fail since I did say "adjust turbo 4 bins higher." Also note that asrock only has 1 cpu ratio setting to change. It doesn't differentiate cpu and turbo. You can set it per core but when it is on all, the setting refers to the highest turbo speed. Other companies do this as well. Power options can affect speedstep and turbo enabling. Yup windows can affect "bios" settings. But then you suggested power settings so may have seen the err in your ways. And one last incorrect bit, it's 4 bins higher on all turbo steps so helps when using any number of cores.
Stock turbo: 3.2, 3.3, 3.3, 3.4
OC: 3.6, 3.7, 3.7, 3.8
4, 3, 2, 1 core(s) respectively.

 

[HateDread]

first i'd update that bios. lets see what that does for you. you'll have to play with your multiplier again. if that doesn't work...

1) power saving mode is "off" in the bios right? (this shouldn't matter, but we'll play it safe to start)
2) what is your "Advanced Turbo" set to, on or off?
3) if you go into Control Pannel>Power Options>High Performance (advanced link)> Processor Power Management, what options do you have available?

Okay, I now have 'No-K Overclocking' as an option. Turning it on makes no change to the x31, but on closer inspection, there is a part just below that says 'Target Frequency', listing it as 3.1ghz, i.e. x31. This cannot be directly changed, so it seems like this option is not being 'set' to overclock at all. If I manually set my multiplier, the No-k option disappears (as it seems to be more of an automatic/one-click solution), and the 'Target Frequency' scales up with the multiplier. This too does nothing in windows to change the strange x31.

I turned off all power-saving features, Intel Turbo is set to on, and cannot be switched off, and the advanced power options in Windows simply list minimum power, maximum power, and Processor cooling policy, set to 100%, 100%, and Enable. These two power options disappear when I disable all C-states, as I'm obviously now running at 100% no matter what.

And yet, still, locked at x31!