z77 Motherboard Discussion

[josejones]

I'm just waiting for Ivy Bridge and the z77 motherboards to come out and the reviews. Which z77 board will be the best for the money? I'm curious to find out if there's any noticeable performance increase with the new z77 mobos over the z68?

Here's all the z77's I can find right now:

ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe

ASRock Z77 Fatal1ty Professional-M

MSI Z77A-GD65 'Ivy Bridge' Motherboard Preview

Gigabyte's GA-Z77X-UD3H and GA-Z77X-UD5H

I was hoping the z77's might have done away with the USB 2.0, sata 2 and PCIe 2.0 and make the switch over to all gen 3 since they are backwards compatible, why not.

So, how much better are these z77 motherboards over the z68's, really?

 

[jaquith]

So far the Z77 testing I've seen it's been slower unless the games can support the Z77's acceleration offloading some the GPU's basic functions with Virtu MVP. The other added plus is 4 ports of native USB 3.0 support. Virtu MVP (now) allows Quick Sync to work in both i-Mode and d-Mode.

 

[josejones]

That's what I was suspecting as I couldn't find any major performance increases. I wonder if it might be, at least in part, due to driver issues? Or maybe some it requires the Ivy Bridge CPU in order to take full advantage?

 

[jaquith]

The benchmarks I posted showed a loss with either the IB or SB CPU, so IMO more likely a BIOS issue.

 

[josejones]

Is that what happened here in this Tweaktown preview of the z77 and Ivy Bridge? Because it seems pretty disappointing to me.

Starting to get that Bulldozer feeling ....

 

[jaquith]

Duh, no frigging way the Bulldozer! Yep, my assumption is the 'problem' is the BIOS.

 

[josejones]

Okay, so you don't think those bad results from tweaktown are comparable to the Bulldozer fiasco? I'm just thinking of all the delays and then mediocre benchmarks. I guess we'll have to wait until the end of April when Ivy Bridge is finally released to find out for sure?

 

[jaquith]

As I've said and thought all along it's either the BIOS, Drivers or a combo of both in the TweakTown 'Preview.' I noted other oddball things like the SB-E/LGA 2011 Memory Bandwidth which is also screwed-up in the 'Preview.'

Neither, SB, IB or SB-E are by any stretch a bottleneck. About the only (plus) for the Z77 is Virtu MVP that is IF the game is supported.

Frankly, I 'personally' don't like running an App to boost my gaming performance and IMO that should be done on the BIOS/CPU level and not some oddball App sorting through iGPU/GPU processing.

 

[josejones]

jaquith, would you please translate this quote for me? I'm just an old guy who knows little about computers.

"I have two older Engineering Samples stepping 8 (E0) and they are really good "on air" Ocers. Retail E1 stepping 9 is noticeably worse. It is worse than any Sandy Bridge. All Sandy Bridge I saw last year are better than all available E1 Retail stepping Core i7-3770K!. Ivy Bridge E1 are total ***! Do not buy them! Only under LN2, there make sense ... never for on air ocing! Keep your 5+GHz Sandies, no E1 Ivy is capable that clock on air.

PS. This is first time in last ten years, i dont recommend "on air" overclockers to upgrade older Intel CPUs for new."

http://www.obr-hardware.com/2012/04/keep-your-sandy-bridge-e1-ivy-bridge.html

 

[jaquith]

It means the Sandy Bridge including an Engineering Sample (ES) of SB overclocks better than the Ivy Bridge. I think the Blogger is referring to (LN2 = Liquid Nitrogen) i7-3770K @ 7GHz CPU-z, and apparently their experience was/is poor OC'ing the i7-3770K on air aka typical HSF in comparison to SB.
---

Again, this is why I'm hesitant to recommend any Z77 MOBO + IB until I 'see' the data. Further for example, OC'ing a SB and SB-E at 4.5GHz isn't the same OC -- 4 cores vs 6 cores/12 threads...ditto SB (32nm) vs IB (22nm) where efficiency of the IB 'should' reign clock-per-clock. I hate 'stock' comparisons e.g. 3.2GHz vs 3.6GHz when both can run 3.6GHz~4.5GHz+ for a real comparison. Intel thought ahead, and simply 'plays' with the stock bin's for a 'perceived value' on their processors; there's few if any SB that cannot reliably run stock @ 4GHz if engineered that way from the beginning.

I look for trends and data; examples:
SB data - http://www.overclock.net/t/916189/official-intel-p67-z68-motherboard-comparison-list-oc-results
SB-E data - http://www.overclock.net/t/1167939/sandy-bridge-e-overclock-leaderboard-owners-club

Then you have to do additional research what vCore's and VCCIO/VCCSA is Damaging. Whenever I recommend a MOBO, CPU, GPU, SSD, etc you name it I had data to support my recommendations. Furhter, since LGA 1155 I've noted recalls, quite recalls, and changes to fix early problems. Again, I think folks especially now are fools to be an Early Adopter -- brand new isn't necessarily better...

 

[alex3064]

gaming with z77 will not be a hell of a difference then with z68, this is because z77 is only part of the whole ie pci.e 3 project. even if they did release the new sets of pci.e 3 cards and ivy bridge, it would THEN be some what faster (i dont know how fast it would be though)

affectively, almost new set of new technology apprears every year, so maybe this years hots is ivy/pci.e 3.0, and next year would be something else.

more importantly if this is just for gaming i say that, sticking with any motherboard is fine as long as it can support your system. of course it wouldnt be so bad to get a good mobo, but really... Gaming industries cannot follow the speed of the VGA upgrades, hence all games are graphically rendered and drawn by human. the high-=end cards right now are like 5tiems overkill for anygames (except metro2033 on like 50 2kx3k monitors. on extreme high setting) lol

 

[jaquith]

gaming with z77 will not be a hell of a difference then with z68, this is because z77 is only part of the whole ie pci.e 3 project.

So far ALL of the Chipsets are 8 lanes of PCIe 2.0; see - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/310170-30-pcie#t2081538

The CPU and GPU(s) have a direct path with Intel CPU's since LGA 1155 and LGA 2011.

The CPU SB/SB-E/IB are not bottlenecks to any current CPUs and the differences in performance will be from 'stock' bins i.e. i5-2500K (3.3 GHz), i7-2600K (3.4 GHz), i7-3930K (3.2 GHz), i7-3960K (3.3 GHz) ... IB i7-3770K (3.5 GHz) ** You notice the STOCK BINS, now OC all of them to say 4.0 GHz or 4.5GHz (K's and X's can easily OC). Then differences you'll see Clock-to-Clock: 1. Games that can use Hyper-Threading (+2~+8FPS) i.e the SB i5-2500K, IB i5-3570K or any i5 SB/IB have no HT, 2. Games that can utilize 'unlimited cores' (+2~+8FPS), 3. Games that can only access 2~4 cores and not use Hyper-Threading (+0FPS) i.e. level playing field, 4. GPUs that can run PCIe 3.0 vs PCIe 2.0 (+0~+1FPS), 5. MOBO's that offer 32 lanes (+0~6FPS) i.e. PCIe 2.0 x8 vs x16.

 

[josejones]

Thanks for translating that quote, jaquith.

Here are some new videos:

GIGABYTE z77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHSs0HRsWzU

A Gigabyte Z77 motherboard is born
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqZDq5cG6Q8

MSI z77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4ykOacpeVU

Asus z77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzjOraSUKjU

 

[josejones]

Have the TDP specs changed in the new Ivy Bridge CPU going from 77 watts up to 95 watts?

 

[jaquith]

Have the TDP specs changed in the new Ivy Bridge CPU going from 77 watts up to 95 watts?

Yep. I started noticing more and overlapping data from my other threads to indicate the IB has an OC problem. The root cause seems to be the ' Tri-gate transistors' ; more data starting here - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/page-303971_28_3450.html#t2505826

 

[josejones]

Is this only an issue with the k / overclock versions? Are the 3770 running at 95 TDP as well?

 

[jaquith]

(C/Paste) I have only a narrow beam on the i7-3770K, to a much lesser degree on the i5-3570K, and paid no attention to the other IB CPUs.

More info - http://www.custompcreview.com/2012/04/15/intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-box-leaked-tdp-95w/

 

[josejones]

I've only seen articles or posts on this issue of a 95 watt TDP regarding the k version of Ivy B. I haven't seen anything yet that mentions if the same 95 watt issue is also with the i7 3770 or i5 3570 or other versions such as the S or T.

I guess we'll have to wait until next week when the Ivy CPU's are released and then, wait for all the reviews to come in. Then, I'll have to wait some more for them to work out all the BIOS, drivers and bug issues. How will I know for sure when they've all been worked out?

 

[jaquith]

How will I know for sure when they've all been worked out?

BIOS updates take time, so at least 1~2 months for 'most' of the bugs to be worked out.

I'll fall over in surprise if the i7/i5 IB (K) aren't running HOT @ OC. All of the focus is on the Unlocked IB, and very little discussions are on the Locked IB. I would assume easily the Locked IB will be fine if not still warm @ load.

To 'me' and most Hot or (too) Warm translates into NOISE to cool the CPU, and IF it takes all of the efforts of say an H100 or Noctua NH-D14 to keep the IB (K) cool then IMO the IB (K) will be DOA to most enthusiasts who have any experience with OC'ing because no one wants Earmuffs playing BF3 or whatever...>55C~60C is when things start getting loud.

 

[josejones]

4-Way Intel Z77 Motherboard Round-up
http://www.techspot.com/review/521-intel-z77-motherboard-roundup/

 

[josejones]

So where does the Ivy Bridge sit here in this PassMark benchmark?

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

 

[jaquith]

Guessing, above the i7-2700K and below the i7-980X probably below the i7-970. Some tests I've seen are under 9000.

 

[josejones]

Quick question, if we use the Adobe CS nearly everyday to work in Photos Shop and Premiere to make videos etc. and build up our websites from time to time should I get the Gigabyte z77 UD 3 or 5 or will it even matter?

 

[jaquith]

Seems the i7-3770K has a rated CPU Mark of 10644 - http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-3770K+%40+3.50GHz considerably higher than I anticipated; as I mentioned I've seen only a few scores.

I've found more issues with Gigabyte's UD3 lines so I'm hesitant to recommend a UD3 IF you plan to OC, and in general I'm so-so on Gigabytes in general. Their X58 and X79 lines were horrible except the UD5 & UD7, but all of their X79 were very bad, but the UD7 & UD9 X58 were stellar and likewise the UD5 & UD7 P67/Z68 were indeed good.

So IMO UD5 Z77 or better ASUS.

 

[josejones]

^ Wow, the Ivy Bridge i7 3770k ranks #7 while the 3770 still comes in at #9 at 10452.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

For a comparison, our original CPU - AMD Sempron 2600+ 1.6 socket 754 comes in at 401 with a rank of #1078:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Sempron+2600%2B

We upgraded to the AMD Athlon 3200 2.0, 2 years ago, which comes in at 524 with a rank of #960:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+64+3200%2B

I don't specialize in math but, I'm curious of what the % of performance increase is from these compared to the new 3770?

 

[jaquith]

Example:
Intel Xeon E5-2690 @ 2.90GHz = 16498
Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz = 10644

16498 / 10644 = 1.55 (rounded) ; therefore the E5-2690 is 55% faster in CPU Mark than the i7-3770K.