z77 Motherboard Discussion

[josejones]

I'm just waiting for Ivy Bridge and the z77 motherboards to come out and the reviews. Which z77 board will be the best for the money? I'm curious to find out if there's any noticeable performance increase with the new z77 mobos over the z68?

Here's all the z77's I can find right now:

ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe

ASRock Z77 Fatal1ty Professional-M

MSI Z77A-GD65 'Ivy Bridge' Motherboard Preview

Gigabyte's GA-Z77X-UD3H and GA-Z77X-UD5H

I was hoping the z77's might have done away with the USB 2.0, sata 2 and PCIe 2.0 and make the switch over to all gen 3 since they are backwards compatible, why not.

So, how much better are these z77 motherboards over the z68's, really?

 

[jaquith]

Probably none of the above, typically the PRO but have to see the specs, OC, you name it... I assume there will be an ASUS P8Z77-V PRO.

However, you'll be waiting until about May for the Ivy Bridge CPUs with the Z77 MOBOs available earlier. Further, IMO add on to that at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out

Intel as you know had the B2 bug, but they also pooched their SB-E with another C1 Vt-d bug -- ever notice the lack of i7-3930K ... most all the i7-3960X currently selling are being sold with the C1 bug...until they all sell-out.

 

[aqe040466]

THe best way to buy these MB's is next year when the majority of the users already have a first hand experienced of these MOBO's reviewed and benched marked.

 

[tiang]

So true, wait till next year.

 

[josejones]

Crapola, i doubt my current system, built in 2004, will hold out 'til next year. I'll be lucky to make it 'til June as my system is on its last leg already.

Here's the thread on my next new build: New Ivy Bridge Work Build

Here's some of my current system (more may be found in my thread above):

CPU: AMD 1.6 Sempron (upgraded to 2.1 Athlon 3200 last year)

Mobo: MSI RS480M

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/RS480M.html

http://www.xpcgear.com/msirs480mil.html

GPU: onboard (LOL)

ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpress_200

 

[jaquith]

Then get an LGA 2011 with a SB-E; the newest offering is the 4-core/8-thread i7-3820 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115229

It's a cheap LGA 2011 CPU, OC's to 4.5GHz~4.8GHz using CPU Ratio (up to x43) and CPU Strap 125MHz * 38 = 4.75GHz @ 1.4v vCore. Further, the LGA 2011 offers Quad Channel, Native PCIe 3.0 (CPU/MOBO/HD 7000 series), 32 lanes of PCIe 3.0 to run up to 4-WAY CF/SLI PCIe 3.0 @ x8/x8/x8/x8 == same as PCIe 2.0 x/16/x16/x16/x16. Even the Ivy Bridge is HALF that at 16 lanes.

 

[Delengowski]

Anyone want to gander at what the prices of these boards are going to be?

 

[jaquith]

The Z77 - about the same as Z68 and ditto with the IB CPUs. The i7-3770K will be around $330 - http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core%20i7-3770K.html

The X79 - $200 on up, nice article on basic X79's - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/x79-extreme4-dx79to-p9x79-benchmark,3138.html

 

[josejones]

Probably none of the above, typically the PRO but have to see the specs, OC, you name it... I assume there will be an ASUS P8Z77-V PRO.

However, you'll be waiting until June or more than likely July for either the Ivy Bridge CPUs and/or the Z77 MOBOs. Further, IMO add on to that at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out

Intel as you know had the B2 bug, but they also pooched their SB-E with another C1 Vt-d bug -- ever notice the lack of i7-3930K ... most all the i7-3960X currently selling are being sold with the C1 bug...until they all sell-out.

A response:

"The B2 bug was in the 6 series chipset, which has been fixed and gone for a very long time now. All the 6 series chipsets are now B3 that fixed the SATA 3 bug that only about 2% of people would ever have seen.

The C1 stepping bug is Vt-d which most people wont use but its already fixed and the new steppings should be rolling out pretty soon as they were set to come out when the quad core LGA2011 CPU came out."

 

[jaquith]

I know exactly what the problems are, what they did, failure rates, impacts, you name it. Oddly, the C2 degrades more rapidly than the C1, but NONE of that was my point.

My point is, Intel has given enough doubts 'just recently' not to be an Early Adopter.

So I stand firmly on exactly what I said and unwavering, "Further, IMO add on to that at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out."

 

[josejones]

Asus P8Z77-V, Pro and Deluxe

Asus Sabertooth Z77

Asus Maximus V Gene

 

[jaquith]

Gigabyte's Z77 line-up - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOTuY_5q7Vw

 

[josejones]

^ Thanks for that video.

I don't consider myself a gamer (well, some minor online games now & again) so, I'm trying to decide which z77 board is best for my needs, I've been eying the Gigabyte UD5 or UD3? Any prices on those yet?

1. What would I do with a pair of Ethernet ports? What's that for?

2. I really wanted a PS/2 port too, which the UD5 doesn't include.

3. What will I miss out on w/o FireWire in the UD3?

4. The UD3 also swaps the Intel Ethernet port for the the Realtek audio chip from VIA. Is that okay?

 

[jaquith]

Q&A:
1. Dual is really use to host a LAN party more than anything. You need a specialized router for any other purpose.

2. Far be it from me to argue against a PS/2 port(s).

3. FireWire is primary used in A/V situations and if e.g. your camcorder needs one then you'll need a separate card, but they're cheap.

4. Clearly Intel LAN is superior, and Realtek for onboard audio is fine. VIA doesn't impress me too much, and IMO produces mediocre chips.

I'd stick to the ASUS PRO line that I discussed earlier. My overall experience is the UD3 lines are built too cheaply for me to recomend, but the UD5 and UD7 lines are generally good.

 

[josejones]

^ Thanks for that, Jaquith. I'm just some old guy trying to make sure I get what I need/want. So, I really appreciate the help here.

I was only seriously considering a Gigabyte motherboard because my local computer shop highly recommended them. They say that Gigabyte gets less returns and other problems in their own personal experience. I just want whatever is best for the best price, of course. I will keep my new system until it dies so a long lifespan and great quality are very important to me.

 

[jaquith]

IDK about that, I guess it depends on what they're selling and their profit margins. Most of the GA's X79 were so bad that GA pulled them off the shelves. Not to mention ditto recalls on bad batches of LGA 1155 UD5 and UD7's. Overall the failure rates are about 2%~3% across all MOBO's, and my experience, 10K+ posts, I would beg to differ.

Further, as I mentioned and it's only prudent to allow "...at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out...

 

[josejones]

I do like those Asus boards. What do you think of the z77's by MSI?

I don't see any way around it, I will have to wait a couple months or so to allow time for any bugs to be worked out before I purchase anything. I just can't risk getting a lemon as that would ruin everything.

 

[josejones]

MSI Z77A-GD65 Motherboard Preview - Intel Z77 w/ Sandy Bridge

I am now wondering what the next motherboard line-up might be like. I'm guessing it might follow suit with the 67-68 line-up and go 77-78? So, if that's the case, I'm curious what the z78 features will be and when they might come out.

 

[jaquith]

Say now which is better is really impossible, I can only gauge from the past and 'assume' for the future. Therefore, IMO it's a wait and see. Generally, my preferences are ASUS and often EVGA; Gigabyte and MSI are often not my first picks.

 

[josejones]

^ What is it about Asus makes you prefer them over Ga & MSI? Quality?

 

[josejones]

I can't imagine that the costs would really go up that much by simply getting rid of the USB 2.0, PCIe 2.0 and Sata 2 and going with all gen 3. How much more does it cost, really? I mean, please explain. I think it's actually a smarter business move because more people would be willing to buy a more complete 'next generation' board rather than this half-assed old mixed with new stuff.

In a couple more years, as mentioned above, by 2014 the gen 2 stuff will be old and obsolete. I keep my systems until they die so, I'd prefer a full on gen 3 board because I know in 2 years on from now I'll cringe every time I need gen 3 port but I'm stuck with a gen 2 port or slot. They're backwards compatible but not forward compatible - who wants soon to be obsolete stuff on their motherboard?

Well, you have yield issues with new tech for one, then you have all those wonder licensing fees. Then you have the testing to make sure your implementation is correct [remember the SATA debacle on P67 motherboards?], which takes time and money. Plus, you have a lack of real need at present, so there isn't a huge giant demand or need to move to new tech right this moment.

Besides, by keeping new tech exclusive to super-high-end boards, you get to jack up the price even more. Remember DDR3 on LGA775?

Thanks for the response. These are honest and sincere questions from me as I really don't know anything about it. I'm not sure how much yield issues or licensing has to do with it because they're not really brand new technologies they're just upgrades going from gen 2 to gen 3. However, "keeping new tech exclusive to super-high-end boards" - okay that I get.

Now I am curious, how long did it take to go from USB 1, PCI 1 and Sata 1 to gen 2? How long before gen 1 was obsolete? Whatever the answer I would think it would be much quicker going from gen 2 to gen 3 since sooo many more people have computers today.

 

[jaquith]

First ASUS, none of the MOBO manufactures are perfect, not even close. ASUS seems to pay a little better attention to OC'ing while others don't. Reliability, I can show you all day negative comments about ANY MOBO all day long. ASUS just is better in the 'big picture.'

USB, SATA, etc is a whole different type of 'saturation', in order to saturate the GPU's PCIe requires resolutions that simple are not available. Once you start seeing 4K and 8K monitors as common place then I'll be all worried about saturating PCIe 2.0 x8 or maybe x16.

Nice article on scaling - http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GTX_480_PCI-Express_Scaling/1.html

 

[josejones]

I had this website in my bookmarks ... for what it's worth: Components returns rates

 

[jaquith]

I've seen that site before, but doesn't breakdown the data into detail like other reports I've seen.

For example, Intel's B2 recall the theoretical failure rate is 100%. MOBO's are hodgepodges of a sea of chipsets. The ASUS's add more chips on their MOBO's than most others: additional USB, Bluetooth, additional VRM, additional SATA/eSATA, etc.

So to a degree the more 'stuff' you add then the higher the risk of one sub-component going poof. However, then the failure rate for e.g. 'should' be much higher ... it's not (ASUS).

 

[jaquith]

Noticed several MOBO Mfg's now lists their Z77's on their sites -

ASUS - http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/Intel_Z77

Gigabyte - http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx?s=42&jid=2&p=2&v=24

Asrock - http://www.asrock.com/mb/index.asp?s=1155

MSI - http://www.msi.com/product/mb/#/?sk=Socket%201155%20(Intel%20i3/i5/i7)