News TSMC to charge premium for making chips outside of Taiwan, including its new US fabs, CEO says

[Admin]

TSMC's production services in the U.S., Japan, and Germany will be more expensive than the same manufacturing services in Taiwan, says company.

TSMC to charge premium for making chips outside of Taiwan, including its new US fabs, CEO says : Read more

 

[Thunder64]

Didn't TSMC just get billions from the CHIPS act? Time to call them up in a Darth Vader voice and tell them that the US is "altering the deal".

 

[PEnns]

Didn't TSMC just get billions from the CHIPS act? Time to call them up in a Darth Vader voice and tell them that the US is "altering the deal".

US governments are infamous for bailing out / throwing money and grants at huge businesses and banks, no strings attached whatsoever!!

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Instead of funding these folks why aren’t we putting more money into companies like Intel Samsung and amd?

 

[thestryker]

US governments are infamous for bailing out / throwing money and grants at huge businesses and banks, no strings attached whatsoever!!

Usually there are strings, but they may as well not exist in many cases. Intel had a situation in Arizona I recall where to get tax breaks on a new fab building the number of employees they needed to add was so low they'd met it before construction finished. Then they ended up not actually spinning up the fab in the new building (they undoubtedly have since).

 

[JamesJones44]

Usually there are strings, but they may as well not exist in many cases. Intel had a situation in Arizona I recall where to get tax breaks on a new fab building the number of employees they needed to add was so low they'd met it before construction finished. Then they ended up not actually spinning up the fab in the new building (they undoubtedly have since).

Yep, then these companies are always allowed to add temporary jobs as "jobs created". They claim it will create 10k jobs, but in truth they might only employee 500 while the 9500 come from sub contracted work to build the facility, connect the infra, setup the office, etc. They don't actually "create" those jobs, but many times in these grants those are allowed to be counted.

 

[Co BIY]

Makes sense. USA made for security reasons is like any other special requirement that one could expect to pay extra for.

OTOH, They will probably also charge a premium for Taiwan produced products if the market conditions are favorable.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

It's not surprising, higher cost of production means higher cost of goods produced. The question, however, is what the impact will be on the total cost of that good. It may cost more to have it made in the USA, Germany, or Japan than in Taiwan, but if shipping costs are lower, not to mention being able to avoid busy shipping ports and potential disruptions, not to mention manufacturing lead time, then the total cost could easily be lower. AMD and nVidia will no doubt keep Taiwan as their base for GPUs as they are closer to their manufacturing plants and will perhaps venture out to Japan if Taiwan is busy. Automotive, aviation, and other companies which manufacture goods in the USA, EU, and Japan, however, may easily come out better sourcing their chips locally.

We will also have to wait and see if Samsung, Texas Instruments, and Intel adopt the same policies.

 

[usertests]

Instead of funding these folks why aren’t we putting more money into companies like Intel Samsung and amd?

Flailing Intel is getting a lot of U.S. government money, some of which is being spent on TSMC chiplets.

 

[Starfal]

Fun times are coming. Stuff are already sky-high. I can't imagine things getting that much worse.

 

[sivaseemakurthi]

Looks like US govt has to subsidize chip manufacturing forever, this will be a losing battle!

 

[watzupken]

The higher cost is not unexpected and logical when you are forcefully trying to offshore production in a location that is comparatively more expensive and may not have a workforce that is readily available to do such work. Not to mention a few fab are expanding rapidly, which will bump up hiring cost since the resource pool is limited. And manpower is only one of the reasons for higher cost.

 

[watzupken]

Looks like US govt has to subsidize chip manufacturing forever, this will be a losing battle!

The way to solve it, you either have to keep subsidizing or you impose a higher tax on foreign chip imports. Either way will be costly to consumers, and no winners.

 

[brandonjclark]

Sure is a nice island you have there Taiwan. *Wink *Wink

Sure would be a shame if we pulled our defenses and let China take over, RIGHT?!?!??!?!

RIGHT TAIWAN?​

 

[outsider2k21]

Sure is a nice island you have there Taiwan. *Wink *Wink

Sure would be a shame if we pulled our defenses and let China take over, RIGHT?!?!??!?!

RIGHT TAIWAN?​

LOL..

USA doesn't have defensive in Taiwan. USA pulled the army after USA break off diplomatic relations with Republic of China (Taiwan.) and form diplomatic relations with people of republic of China. As matter of fact the last army personal left Taiwan at May 3 1979.

 

[outsider2k21]

Why are people surprise? Labor cost isn't the same, there is no way any western worker work under the working condition in Taiwan.

 

[JamesJones44]

LOL..

USA doesn't have defensive in Taiwan. USA pulled the army after USA break off diplomatic relations with Republic of China (Taiwan.) and form diplomatic relations with people of republic of China. As matter of fact the last army personal left Taiwan at May 3 1979.

??? You do realize the US has a large navel flight in the rejoin right? You think they are just there for fun?

 

[umeng2002_2]

The U.S. should simply side with mainland China. That would make them give Apple, Intel and nVidia chips for free.

 

[tau6]

The premium was brought up to normalize cost of production in the states vs Taiwan. Nothing too complicated.

 

[TerryLaze]

Flailing Intel is getting a lot of U.S. government money, some of which is being spent on TSMC chiplets.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...chips-act-intel-direct-funding.html#gs.864lq0

• U.S. Department of Commerce has proposed up to $8.5 billion in direct funding through the CHIPS and Science Act to advance Intel’s commercial semiconductor projects in Arizona, New Mexico, Ohio and Oregon.
• Intel also expects to benefit from a U.S. Treasury Department Investment Tax Credit (ITC) of up to 25% on more than $100 billion in qualified investments and eligibility for federal loans up to $11 billion.
• Proposed funding supports Intel’s previously announced plans to invest more than $100 billion in the U.S. over five years to expand U.S. chipmaking capacity and capabilities critical to economic and national security and acceleration of emerging technologies, such as AI.

"a lot" is up to 8.5% of the money over the 5 years they talk about.
Also intel has like 25bil cash on hand, they can buy the tsmc chiplets without government stamps.

 

[Notton]

US governments are infamous for bailing out / throwing money and grants at huge businesses and banks, no strings attached whatsoever!!

AFAIK, an earlier iteration of the CHIPS act had strings attached.
Some lobbying happened, a majority of votes couldn't be secured etc.
and then those strings got tossed out.

 

[outsider2k21]

??? You do realize the US has a large navel flight in the rejoin right? You think they are just there for fun?

You mean the 7th fleet that stationed in South Korea, Japan and Phillipine ?

I know beause I grown up in Taiwan and goverment keep talk about how USA 7th fleet will help defend Taiwan if China invade Taiwan base on the Taiwan Relations Act.

However

I am no longer delusional believe US soldiers will die for Taiwan. I mean look at Ukraine. Not to mention It was on the Taiwan news outlet last year that USS Nimitz changed direction whenever China's Shandong carrier get close. It was also on the news that Seth Moulton even suggest bomb TSMC if China invade Taiwan.

Let's be honest to each other, there is no way US will direct conflict with China when China can drop Unclear bomb in US home soil. (Which apply to Russia, North Korea as well.)

 

[NedSmelly]

March 9: “I’ve always wondered how governments stop private entities from doing a grab and dash with these kinds of grants.”

 

[Vrauldt]

LOL..

USA doesn't have defensive in Taiwan. USA pulled the army after USA break off diplomatic relations with Republic of China (Taiwan.) and form diplomatic relations with people of republic of China. As matter of fact the last army personal left Taiwan at May 3 1979.

What are you talking about... they were literally reported to have stationed green berets in Kinmen(3KM away from mainland) just last month
https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202403140016

 

[nightbird321]

US governments are infamous for bailing out / throwing money and grants at huge businesses and banks, no strings attached whatsoever!!

For TSMC just agreeing to build in the US means the "strings" of being subject to US laws and politics. Adding more conditions would mean even larger taxpayer grants for to it make business sense. I see this link is more a "political marriage" between Taiwan and the USA than a real grant like to Intel.