News EVGA power supply allegedly kills 22TB of customer storage — revised model from RMA had a different pin layout and killed all SATA-powered devices

[Order 66]

I do.

My main system does an Incremental backup of each physical drive, between 0100 and 0500.
Every night.
6 individual SSDs, 1TB each.

I have had to recover twice.

Once was a dead drive. 960GB SSD, 605GB data on it.
Died suddenly.
Slot in a new drive, recover from the 0300 backup.
All 605GB recovered.

Other one was the OS drive.
Due to installing absolute crap software...the easiest, fastest way to "fix it" was recovering last nights incremental.
This was just a few months ago.


I could recover any or all of the 6x SSDs in my main system, to any point in the last 30 days.


Having "22TB" data does not mean copying that whole 22TB every night.
This is the concept of Incremental or Differential backups.

I don't backup my 2tb Samsung 980 pro, just because I don't know how I would, since all I have is games, and I'm not sure how to back them up in a way that wouldn't require a separate drive (I have just over 1TB of games, and I don't have a free drive with anywhere close to 1TB of storage.) or require me to re-download all the games. even if I were to back them up, the backups would probably be several months or weeks out of date, thus requiring an update and rendering the whole thing moot.

 

[DingusDog]

I've always loved EVGA products but this is making me think twice that is not how they should have handled the situation since it's clearly their fault. Still running a 10 year old 750w supernova G2 and when it's time to replace it I might choose another brand.

 

[USAFRet]

I don't backup my 2tb Samsung 980 pro, just because I don't know how I would, since all I have is games, and I'm not sure how to back them up in a way that wouldn't require a separate drive (I have just over 1TB of games, and I don't have a free drive with anywhere close to 1TB of storage.) or require me to re-download all the games. even if I were to back them up, the backups would probably be several months or weeks out of date, thus requiring an update and rendering the whole thing moot.

Backups are not just for your games.

What would you do if the OS got corrupted right now?

I can (and have) resurrected a compromised OS drive in about 45 mins.

 

[BillyBuerger]

There's a reason I've steered clear of modular power supplies for a decade now. Especially with today's case designs - or even many in 2015, for that matter - I don't think they even make much sense, except perhaps in a SFF case. I've been hearing stories like this for a long time.

There are other reasons for modular PSUs. I currently have no need for any SATA or Molex connectors so aside from not having to tuck those cables away, I just don't have to deal with them at all which is nice. And aside from fancy looking custom cables, I find it useful to make my own custom cables that are the exact length and types I need. My case is not a standard PC case (Sun Ultra 45) where some cables might be too short and require extensions while longer cables might be too long. I bought a bunch of wire, connector and terminals and cut the wires to the lengths I needed and crimped the connector so I have 1-to-1 PSU to motherboard, CPU and GPU. No 20+4, 4+4 or 6+2 connectors where some of those + aren't needed and just hanging off looking weird. In the end it's still about looking clean, but it's also about having parts made for my needs and not trying to use a generic part that has to try to fit everyones needs.

 

[Pei-chen]

It’s on you buying an EVGA.

 

[newtechldtech]

There are other reasons for modular PSUs. I currently have no need for any SATA or Molex connectors so aside from not having to tuck those cables away, I just don't have to deal with them at all which is nice. And aside from fancy looking custom cables, I find it useful to make my own custom cables that are the exact length and types I need. My case is not a standard PC case (Sun Ultra 45) where some cables might be too short and require extensions while longer cables might be too long. I bought a bunch of wire, connector and terminals and cut the wires to the lengths I needed and crimped the connector so I have 1-to-1 PSU to motherboard, CPU and GPU. No 20+4, 4+4 or 6+2 connectors where some of those + aren't needed and just hanging off looking weird. In the end it's still about looking clean, but it's also about having parts made for my needs and not trying to use a generic part that has to try to fit everyones needs.

If you ask me , PC power supplies should have one cable or two only connected to the motherboard and the rest gets the power from the slots itself . all these cables are old old stuff ... look at high end gaming laptops , how many cables do you see ? Just one . we really need a new standard ....

 

[thestryker]

If you ask me , PC power supplies should have one cable or two only connected to the motherboard and the rest gets the power from the slots itself . all these cables are old old stuff ... look at high end gaming laptops , how many cables do you see ? Just one . we really need a new standard ....

So you want a single, best case scenario probably 40 pin, cable capable of carrying at least 1300W. Motherboards redesigned to distribute all of the power from a single location. With the PCIe standard redesigned for higher power delivery over the slot which would probably break backwards compatibility. All of that to simplify what is usually a one time annoyance during assembly.

Now I will say I'd happily welcome wide adoption of ATX12VO, or at least some good options with the standard on the DIY market.

 

[newtechldtech]

So you want a single, best case scenario probably 40 pin, cable capable of carrying at least 1300W. Motherboards redesigned to distribute all of the power from a single location. With the PCIe standard redesigned for higher power delivery over the slot which would probably break backwards compatibility. All of that to simplify what is usually a one time annoyance during assembly.

Now I will say I'd happily welcome wide adoption of ATX12VO, or at least some good options with the standard on the DIY market.

you will be stuck forever if you insist on backwards compatibility ... keep in mind that we are still using ~30+ years old design for power delivery ...

and you dont need 40 pins in new designs ... even for 1300 watts ... the 12V per cable should be history !

 

[thestryker]

you will be stuck forever if you insist on backwards compatibility

You clearly have no clue how anything works if you think ditching backwards compatibility on PCIe is smart. Let's just look at it short term consumer facing: nobody can use an older video card with their new system and nobody could use a new video card in their old system. You've now blown up everything except the OEM industry and added cost to them for nothing tangible.

and you dont need 40 pins in new designs ... even for 1300 watts ... the 12V per cable should be history !

So your solution is pumping more voltage in and redesigning literally everything that makes up a computer or stepping down and adding failure points?

keep in mind that we are still using ~30+ years old design for power delivery ...

I'm sure everyone involved with evolving the ATX spec would find this assertion rather surprising. About the only thing today that's the same as it was upon introduction is the requirement for 12v, 5v and 3.3v from the PSU.

 

[bikemanI7]

Currently using a EVGA G3 650 Watt Power supply, but when it does come time to replace it might replace with a Seasonic 750 Watt or Corasir possibly.

Thankfully my EVGA G3 been running well since 2018 in my Old System and in my Newer Intel 10700 based system

As for Backups i backup my system weekly with Macrium Reflect Home Edition 8.1, to 2 Seperate 8TB Storage drives

Might replace this current Power supply late in 2024 or early 2025 probably before my next system refresh i possibly think

 

[thestryker]

Just an update to the original story Gamers Nexus in their news video today had gotten in contact with both EVGA and the customer. The customer has been compensated for the drives lost now. There are more details, but if anyone's interested they can check the video.

 

[newtechldtech]

You clearly have no clue how anything works if you think ditching backwards compatibility on PCIe is smart. Let's just look at it short term consumer facing: nobody can use an older video card with their new system and nobody could use a new video card in their old system. You've now blown up everything except the OEM industry and added cost to them for nothing tangible.

Do you see ISA GPU today ? do you see VESA LOCAL BUS GPU today ? do you see AGP GPU today ? we MUST move on at some point !

 

[CmdrShepard]

Backups are not just for your games.

Yeah, they are also for pr0n. Joking aside, some things are pointless (or sometimes even impossible) to backup.

I can (and have) resurrected a compromised OS drive in about 45 mins.

That's how much it takes me to reinstall the OS from scratch and set it up to my liking (even less because I always have a custom ISO ready).

You are missing one big part of restoring a backup though -- to restore 22 TB of data (assuming drives were say 80% full) means you need to write 18,022 GB (18,454,528 MB). Even with the most optimistic estimate of 300 MB/s sustained sequential writing speed of the best enterprise HDDs available you are looking at 17h 05m of basically stress-testing your new drives, your backup drives, and the whole system with it before you can use it.

I am not saying people shouldn't have backup, but claiming they can recover fast from such a big loss is a bit ridiculous.

 

[CmdrShepard]

you will be stuck forever if you insist on backwards compatibility ... keep in mind that we are still using ~30+ years old design for power delivery ...

and you dont need 40 pins in new designs ... even for 1300 watts ... the 12V per cable should be history !

This is a layman view of how electical engineering and power supplies work. Motherboards already pass insane electrical current for CPUs (albeit at low voltages and spread across hundreds of Vcc and GND pins).

You are saying that all current for every device inside the PC should be routed through the motherboard and you are totally ignoring:

1. Mechanical stress of adding new connectors to the board (not to mention space constraints)
2. Increased board thickness, trace sparseness, and better heat dissipation required to run all power through it safely
3. Effect of more current running through traces (EM, heat, crosstalk, material migration, to name just a few)
4. That board is akin to a bunch of exposed wiring compared to the insulated cables you run from PSU to devices
5. That board is now another unnecessary point of failure

Laptop is different from a desktop PC in so many ways -- for starters it wasn't meant to be opened and tinkered with so the integration is tight. In a desktop PC that's totally impractical idea.

 

[USAFRet]

Yeah, they are also for pr0n. Joking aside, some things are pointless (or sometimes even impossible) to backup.

That's how much it takes me to reinstall the OS from scratch and set it up to my liking (even less because I always have a custom ISO ready).

You are missing one big part of restoring a backup though -- to restore 22 TB of data (assuming drives were say 80% full) means you need to write 18,022 GB (18,454,528 MB). Even with the most optimistic estimate of 300 MB/s sustained sequential writing speed of the best enterprise HDDs available you are looking at 17h 05m of basically stress-testing your new drives and the whole system with it before you can use it.

I am not saying people shouldn't have backup, but claiming they can recover fast from such a big loss is a bit ridiculous.

And without the backup, you're looking at a time period of infinity.

Would trying to recover the whole 22TB take a loooooong time?
Sure.

However...is all that 22TB on the same physical drive?
Unlikely.

I'm not saying it is fast or trivial.
But the alternative is worse.

 

[CmdrShepard]

I'm not saying it is fast or trivial.

That's pretty much what you were saying, hence my response.

 

[USAFRet]

That's pretty much what you were saying, hence my response.

No, I'm pretty sure I didn't say the recovery was fast.

The daily backups, OTOH....

 

[bikemanI7]

I feel the purpose of a Backup is to make sure you have a non damaged copy of files, that you can restore if something happens to Drive the Files was stored on, in addition much easier to feel at ease

Back in 2005 i stupidly infected My Own Computer testing out Windows Live OneCare Antivirus (listened to online friend in a game at the time) Opened the said "folder friend said to get" infected entire system--((I did not have a backup then)

Power supply died somehow unrelated a few weeks later---killed the two hard drives that was in the system.

I learned after that to always have backups as up to date as possible, and no longer download all kinds of junk or tweak system too much these days.

Though i'm sorta obessed with backing up now--always have at least a couple externals connected for a bit daily to make sure some files backed up before main backup day

 

[Tracy53]

I appreciate you taking the time to share this information.

 

[newtechldtech]

This is a layman view of how electical engineering and power supplies work. Motherboards already pass insane electrical current for CPUs (albeit at low voltages and spread across hundreds of Vcc and GND pins).

You are saying that all current for every device inside the PC should be routed through the motherboard and you are totally ignoring:

1. Mechanical stress of adding new connectors to the board (not to mention space constraints)
2. Increased board thickness, trace sparseness, and better heat dissipation required to run all power through it safely
3. Effect of more current running through traces (EM, heat, crosstalk, material migration, to name just a few)
4. That board is akin to a bunch of exposed wiring compared to the insulated cables you run from PSU to devices
5. That board is now another unnecessary point of failure

Laptop is different from a desktop PC in so many ways -- for starters it wasn't meant to be opened and tinkered with so the integration is tight. In a desktop PC that's totally impractical idea.

Mechanical stress ? no really , APPLE MAC PROs already did it . all your points Apple solved it in their last intel MAC Pro.

Laptops are not different from electronic design point of view , regardless if you tinker with it or not , you are contradicting yourself actually.

 

[CmdrShepard]

Mechanical stress ? no really , APPLE MAC PROs already did it . all your points Apple solved it in their last intel MAC Pro.

Which one are you refering to? The one that cost $6000 and had custom motherboard and used MPX modules for graphics? Yeah, for that kind of money everything can be done. But for $150-$250 desktop boards? Don't be ridiculous please.

Laptops are not different from electronic design point of view , regardless if you tinker with it or not , you are contradicting yourself actually.

They are actually massively different -- for starters they have an order of magnitude lower maximum power usage and heat dissipation. They also need to be thin and light, and usually have no user replaceable parts except M.2 and perhaps one RAM slot not to mention that the CPU is soldered instead of socketed. Then there's the fact that laptops don't have large expansion slots (at best you can have a mini-PCIe if you are lucky) -- I could go on but I hope you understand that design concerns for laptops and desktops are like apples and oranges.