Build Advice Some help with a new build please, mostly 2D graphics / image editing apps ?

[LonesomeAnt21]

Hi everyone,

First post for me in this friendly and useful community

I'd like to ask for your advice regarding a new build. I'm pretty much a newbie regarding hardware so help very much appreciated. Last computer I built myself was 15 years ago. I've lost touch with everything hardware related.

Context :

• Money : budget is about 2000€ but can get somewhat over that limit if justified. Money isn't a concern, really. Quality and satisfaction is the goal but I don't want to splash money where there is nothing to be gained by doing so.
• Myself :
  • Not a gamer.
  • Software developer, like to tinker with code but not interested in running generative AI models on my own computer. In fact I specifically want to be as unable to do this as can be.
  • Photographer.
  • Like snappy, effective and quality stuff.
  • Don't like to tinker with hardware much. I just want things to work out of the box once assembled or almost. I don't mind updating the BIOS and changing some settings once, but never think about it again.
• Software :
  • One Linux, one Windows that I want on fast SSDs
  • Secondary Linux on another SSD but doesn't have to be fast (to be used occasionally)
  • Image and photography editing apps. Paid and free. Some of them poorly optimized and / or requiring excellent OpenCL support and efficient parallel processing to be used in any enjoyable way.
  • No video editing / encoding.
  • No need for a lot of disk space (I have a NAS for storage)
  • ...the usual multimedia stuff everybody uses.
• Aesthetics of computer : no interest in this. Even better if not showy and bland looking. If there are any LEDs I'd like to be able to shut them off.
• Sound level : quietness is important. I'd like the computer to be as silent as can be when I'm not using it much (I want it to be almost silent when I code or surf the web in the evening).
• System isn't expected to run at 100% in a continuous way for long. More like many small bursts (few seconds) where top speed is expected with long pauses in between. I suppose this has an impact on cooling requirements.

What I have in mind so far : https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9w8KmD

• CPU: Intel Core i9-14900KF 3.2 GHz 24-Core Processor (€589.00)
• CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid 360 Atmos 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€157.31)
• Motherboard: MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€239.00)
• Memory: Kingston FURY Renegade 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL32 Memory (€145.16)
• Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€84.90)
• Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€84.90)
• Storage: Kingston NV2 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€44.99)
• Video Card: AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Radeon RX 6950 XT 16 GB Video Card (€549.00)
• Case: NZXT H7 Flow ATX Mid Tower Case (€123.00)
• Power Supply: be quiet! Straight Power 12 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€213.16)

Choice of GPU might seem weird nowadays but AMD, and especially AMD 6xxx GPUs, seem to suck at anything AI related but at the same time be good at OpenCL. Which is precisely my goal. Dated but top of the line AMD GPU.

Especially confused about choice of RAM.

I don't know what kind of additional fans the case requires and what I should choose for a good silence / performance compromise (silence has priority).

...and that's it

Sorry for the long read, I hope you don't mind. Eagerly waiting for any good advice and fixes in my choices if need be

Have a nice day wherever you live on this little planet.

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

budget is about 2000€
Where are you located?

I would opt for the K suffix processor instead of the F, since an iGPU comes in very handy when diagnosing display related issues. You can go with higher frequency rams, if this was an AMD AM5 platform, I'd have stuck around DDR5-6000MHz or DDR5-6400MHz at the most. You can go higher with Intel.

Personally I'd avoid Kingston ram and storage, instead stick to G.Skill's, Corsair's or Team Group. You'll be good with Samsung for your storage if you're looking at cream of the crop pedigree storage.

Your build looks like you put it together on PCPartPicker. If so, pass the link on and we'll try and modify it for you.

Don't apologize, we expect users to pass on as much necessary information to us so we've made suggestions that is best for your use case scenario(s).

 

[logainofhades]

I would not buy a KF sku, as it lack integrated graphics, which can be useful for GPU related issues. 980 pros are nice, but overpriced for the capacity.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

budget is about 2000€
Where are you located?

I would opt for the K suffix processor instead of the F, since an iGPU comes in very handy when diagnosing display related issues. You can go with higher frequency rams, if this was an AMD AM5 platform, I'd have stuck around DDR5-6000MHz or DDR5-6400MHz at the most. You can go higher with Intel.

Personally I'd avoid Kingston ram and storage, instead stick to G.Skill's, Corsair's or Team Group. You'll be good with Samsung for your storage if you're looking at cream of the crop pedigree storage.

Your build looks like you put it together on PCPartPicker. If so, pass the link on and we'll try and modify it for you.

Don't apologize, we expect users to pass on as much necessary information to us so we've made suggestions that is best for your use case scenario(s).

Thank you for your quick reply Lutfij

I'm located in Europe, Belgium. I've updated the first post with the PCPartPicker link (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9w8KmD).

Good suggestion regarding a CPU with integrated graphics, the price difference is negligible in this case. I didn't think it would come in handy but makes complete sense, thank you.

Regarding RAM, it's very very hard for me to decide by myself what would best fit. The parameters are just too many and technical (timings, frequency, compatibility with motherboard and CPU, brand reputability, expected stability, required voltage, ...). That is probably the part I need the most help with. Also, I don't really know what difference it can make, so hard to judge if money invested in this will translate into noticeable additional value.

Once thing may matter regarding RAM : I'd like performance, sure, but stability and ease of setup takes precedence. I certainly don't plan to overclock anything and push things beyond expected range of guaranteed stability, unless it is very common to do so, simple, and without any known issue.

Thanks a lot for your time and your help

 

[NedSmelly]

Radeon GPU makes sense if you’re working with Linux.

I’d consider more RAM (64GB or more) if you’re working with high resolution cameras and multiple layers / pano stitching / focus stacking etc.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

I would not buy a KF sku, as it lack integrated graphics, which can be useful for GPU related issues. 980 pros are nice, but overpriced for the capacity.

Thank for your reply logainofhades.

It is true that those 500Go SSD cost more / Go than their 1To and 2To counterparts. Twice the price per Go actually...that's pretty wild. Hadn't noticed this.

I could buy one 2To SSD instead of those three 500Go SSDs. Especially as I won't use more than one at the same time, ever. I chose this setup for two reasons, which might both be wrong :

• I seem to recall that encryption is easier to setup when installing an OS if this OS is alone on its own disk. I don't think it's that easy to setup for a single partition. I need to dig into this.
• I don't like much the idea of having all my OSs on the same drive, in case of failure.

Thank you for your time


...getting very late here, I'll reply to any new messages with more appropriate care tomorrow, have a good night if any of you lives in the same time zone and see you all tomorrow !

 

[Lucky_SLS]

https://browser.geekbench.com/opencl-benchmarks

I would suggest something like this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700KF 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor (€383.90 @ Amazon Belgium)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€95.31 @ Azerty)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€231.86 @ Amazon Belgium)
Memory: TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (€64.98 @ Amazon Belgium)
Storage: Lexar NM790 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€76.16 @ Azerty)
Storage: Lexar NM790 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€133.16 @ Azerty)
Video Card: PNY VERTO OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16 GB Video Card (€876.99 @ Azerty)
Case: Deepcool CC560 ARGB V2 ATX Mid Tower Case (€70.16 @ Azerty)
Power Supply: MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€129.90 @ Amazon Belgium)
Total: €2062.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-08 08:33 CEST+0200

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

https://browser.geekbench.com/opencl-benchmarks

I would suggest something like this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700KF 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor (€383.90 @ Amazon Belgium)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€95.31 @ Azerty)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€231.86 @ Amazon Belgium)
Memory: TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (€64.98 @ Amazon Belgium)
Storage: Lexar NM790 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€76.16 @ Azerty)
Storage: Lexar NM790 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€133.16 @ Azerty)
Video Card: PNY VERTO OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16 GB Video Card (€876.99 @ Azerty)
Case: Deepcool CC560 ARGB V2 ATX Mid Tower Case (€70.16 @ Azerty)
Power Supply: MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€129.90 @ Amazon Belgium)
Total: €2062.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-08 08:33 CEST+0200

Thank you Lucky_SLS.

I don't want to be annoying by asking you to explain those choices. I'll simply compare with the parts I chose and figure out the differences (in specs and price) which is easy by using the "compare" feature of pcpartpicker (very useful website btw). For someone with little clue about modern hardware, pointers to reputable parts are of great help. It opens my mind to stuff I don't know about and gives perspective.

As for the GPU, I wish to stay with AMD 6xxx series for reasons explained above

Regarding power supply, I figured 850W would be enough but was a bit shy about aiming too low. I don't know for example if PCPartPicker computes to power needs of the computer based on the peak needs of each part of some advertised mean. That is why I chose 1000W. Do you think this makes sense ? Or is there really no reason for so much in this situation ?

I see you chose DDR4. Does it mean there is little benefit to go with DDR5 ? It seems the frequency of that RAM with is about half the one of DDR5, but the timings (CL16 ?) seems to be half too. So I'm confused. Should I aim for as high a frequency as possible ? Or as low timings as possible ?

Thank you very much for your time

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

Radeon GPU makes sense if you’re working with Linux.

I’d consider more RAM (64GB or more) if you’re working with high resolution cameras and multiple layers / pano stitching / focus stacking etc.

Thank you NedSmelly.

The use cases you're referring to are indeed among my current or planned activities. I'll consider more RAM, although my current camera has a medium resolution (24MP) "only" and I never ran out of my current 32Go yet. It's easy to add some more RAM in the future if need be I think. Thanks for your advice anyway, I'll consider it.

Actually, I'm current more concerned about the type of RAM I need than the amount.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

>Software developer, like to tinker with code
>Photographer.

So is compile time a thing, or does "tinker" mean it's a hobby and not a profession?

>Like snappy, effective and quality stuff.

Are there people who don't?

>Don't like to tinker with hardware much.

From all the above, I'm curious what your justifications are for the top-end CPU/GPU. What are your software tools' needs and bottlenecks?

...and why you couple them with overpriced, tiny 500GB SSDs (along with a crap quality SSD in NV2).

>I don't know what kind of additional fans the case requires

Case comes w/ two 120mm fans. Assuming AIO route listed, which takes up either front or top facing, then one goes to the default back facing, and the 2nd goes to where AIO radiator isn't. You can fit 2 more, but with 7 fans whirring away (plus PSU & GPU fans), silence isn't a thing to hope for. Or even with the default 5.

...but why a case w/ 2 3.5" and 6 2.5" capacity, when all your drives are NVMe's?

Why a top-end CPU/GPU (read: hot) with oodles of fan and fan noise, when silence is what you want?

>Especially confused about choice of RAM.

RAM is straightforward. DDR5-6000 CL30 for "best value high-perf".

>Also, I don't really know what difference it can make, so hard to judge if money invested in this will translate into noticeable additional value.

It makes a smidgen of diff in memory-intensive uses. But bottom line is that cost diff is a few bucks, so go with the better-spec one. Why buy 14900K only to couple it with cheaper RAM?

>I’d consider more RAM (64GB or more) if you’re working with high resolution cameras and multiple layers / pano stitching / focus stacking etc.

Voting for this.

>It's easy to add some more RAM in the future if need be I think.

Adding RAM modules of different make/model can be problematic, because of possible timing differences. RAM isn't expensive relative to other components, so best to get all of it at start.

>I seem to recall that encryption is easier to setup when installing an OS if this OS is alone on its own disk. I don't think it's that easy to setup for a single partition. I need to dig into this.

Hmm, yeah do that.

>I don't like much the idea of having all my OSs on the same drive, in case of failure.

If reliability is your thing, consider that SSD wear-leveling works much better with one big drive than multiple small drives. To reinforce this point, TBW (SSD endurance rating) is proportional to capacity. A 500GB SSD would have 1/4th TBW relative to 2TB.

To sum, my overall impression--from lack of any specific performance need--is that OP dude probably would be best served with a midrange i5 or equiv, fitted w/ B760 board and cooled with simple towar cooler. Oh, and one midrange 2TB SSD (or 4TB, where bang/buck sweet spot is at).

But I get it, he has $2K budget and everybody wants hottest stuff even if they don't need it. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. He's happy, and vendors are happier. No need to overthink it.

Hi.

If needs alone were my thing I wouldn't buy a new system. Consider me someone with too much money who simply want to enjoy an upgrade in something I use every day for fun. Spending 2000€ every 5 years on something I use so much is fine with me.

"why a case w/ 2 3.5" and 6 2.5" capacity"

Because it was recommended on some website I suppose. Trying to justify the wrong choices I made is a waste of everyone's time and of no importance. Indeed I don't need all this capacity. I assumed a bigger case is better for air flow and keep things cool maybe. If another case is more appropriate, can you point out some better choices ?

Software dev tools usually have little use for many CPU cores. A fast CPU with a few cores and 16Go of RAM is plenty. Image editing apps make good use of CPU cores and a high end GPU (OpenCL) though.

Didn't think a high end CPU with appropriate cooling would make so much noise, even when idle ? I need to consider this, thank you.

Thanks for your suggestion about RAM, very much appreciated.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

Thank you Lucky_SLS.

I don't want to be annoying by asking you to explain those choices. I'll simply compare with the parts I chose and figure out the differences (in specs and price) which is easy by using the "compare" feature of pcpartpicker (very useful website btw). For someone with little clue about modern hardware, pointers to reputable parts are of great help. It opens my mind to stuff I don't know about and gives perspective.

As for the GPU, I wish to stay with AMD 6xxx series for reasons explained above

Regarding power supply, I figured 850W would be enough but was a bit shy about aiming too low. I don't know for example if PCPartPicker computes to power needs of the computer based on the peak needs of each part of some advertised mean. That is why I chose 1000W. Do you think this makes sense ? Or is there really no reason for so much in this situation ?

I see you chose DDR4. Does it mean there is little benefit to go with DDR5 ? It seems the frequency of that RAM with is about half the one of DDR5, but the timings (CL16 ?) seems to be half too. So I'm confused. Should I aim for as high a frequency as possible ? Or as low timings as possible ?

Thank you very much for your time

I dont fully understand your reasoning for going with the i9. The only reason ppl go Intel for productivity is cuz of Intel quick sync with their iGPU in video editing tasks.

If you are after general performance, AMD 7000 series like the 7950X gives good performance with more cores, better than the 14900k in multicore performance. Remember that the 14900k only has 8 performance cores. The rest are low efficiency single threaded cores. Ryzen has 16 high performance cores.

The reason i went for the 13700KF and DDR4 is to purely keep the build within your budget. It still gives you better performance compared to the 5950X and still got 8 high performance cores.

The mobo and rams are standard parts with adequate performance. Not top of the line spec, but not bottom tier either. Its what you would call as "sweet spot"

The i7 when utilised fully, would require a good cooling solution. The Freezer III is one of the best with its thicker 38mm radiator. It also has a VRM cooling fan and contact frame for optimal cooling. No brainer choice.

The NM790 is again a good SSD for the price. not top of the line like the 980 pro, but gives good performance and has long endurance for the price.

The MSI PSU is ATX 3.0 tier A model with 135mm FDB fans and 10 year warranty. ticks all the boxes.

850W is more than enough for the 13700KF and the 4070Ti Super. 1000W is overkill and wasting money.

https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ddr5-vs-ddr4-is-it-time-to-upgrade-your-ram

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/lexar-nm790-ssd-review

https://gamersnexus.net/coolers/new...ezer-iii-360-280-cpu-cooler-review-benchmarks

the MPG is the better version compared to the MAG. The MAG series is included in the best picks:

Best ATX v3.x & PCIe 5.x Ready PSU Picks 2024 – Hardware Busters - Page 4 of 9 - Hardware Busters

Hardware Busters - Best ATX v3.x & PCIe 5.x Ready PSU Picks 2024 – Hardware Busters - Best Picks

hwbusters.com

I still feel that the 4070 ti super is the better pick considering the openCL performance.

 

[NedSmelly]

Actually, I'm current more concerned about the type of RAM I need than the amount.

Just FYI - not a massive difference in performance with different RAM speeds in productivity / media creation: link

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

I dont fully understand your reasoning for going with the i9. The only reason ppl go for Intel for productivity is for Intel quick sync with their iGPU for video editing tasks.

If you are after general performance, AMD 7000 series like the 7950X gives good performance with more core counts, better than the 14900k in multicore performance. Remember that the 14900k only has 8 performance cores. The rest are low efficiency single threaded cores. Ryzen has 16 high performance cores.

The reason i went for the 13700KF and DDR4 is to purely keep the build within your budget. It still gives you better performance compared to the 5950X and still got 8 high performance cores.

The mobo and rams are standard parts with adequate performance. Not top of the line spec, but not bottom tier either. Its what you would call as "sweet spot"

The i7 when utilised fully would requires a good cooling solution. The Freezer III is one of the best with its thicker 38mm radiator. It also has a VRM cooling fan and contact frame for optimal cooling. No brainer choice.

The NM790 is again a good SSD for the price. not top of the line like the 980 pro, but gives good performance and has long endurance for the price.

The MSI PSU is ATX 3.0 tier A model with 135mm FDB fans and 10 year warranty. ticks all the boxes.

https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ddr5-vs-ddr4-is-it-time-to-upgrade-your-ram

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/lexar-nm790-ssd-review

https://gamersnexus.net/coolers/new...ezer-iii-360-280-cpu-cooler-review-benchmarks

the MPG is the better version compared to the MAG. The MAG series is included in the best picks:

Best ATX v3.x & PCIe 5.x Ready PSU Picks 2024 – Hardware Busters - Page 4 of 9 - Hardware Busters

Hardware Busters - Best ATX v3.x & PCIe 5.x Ready PSU Picks 2024 – Hardware Busters - Best Picks

hwbusters.com

I still feel that the 4070 ti super is the better pick considering the openCL performance.

Many thanks for explaining your reasoning. It helps. Especially the part about performance cores vs low efficiency cores. Much appreciated. I'll get back to you when I have more time to read your post with the attention it deserves.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

Just FYI - not a massive difference in performance with different RAM speeds in productivity / media creation: link

Didn't know this. Link much appreciated !

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

Ok. I'm at work now, so not much time reading and replying right now. Will do so in the evening.

But what was said so far makes me question my choice of CPU. I need some time alone doing some homework regarding this (high performance / low performance cores for Intel, cooling requirements, silence vs performance contradictions in my expectations, and so on) .

A change of CPU and maybe even CPU brand (Intel => AMD) would probably change everything. I need some time thinking.

Thank you all for your help so far. It is much appreciated.

Will get back when I'm done thinking

 

[logainofhades]

I took your build, and changed the country to Belgium, and it came out to €2230.42 . I changed up the build to get you an even faster GPU, for less money. I did 14700k because those 4 extra efficiency cores are not worth the added cost.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-14700K 3.4 GHz 20-Core Processor (€443.86 @ Amazon Belgium)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€95.31 @ Azerty)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€237.00 @ Amazon Belgium)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory (€124.90 @ Amazon Belgium)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Video Card: ASRock Phantom Gaming OC Radeon RX 7900 XT 20 GB Video Card (€779.00 @ Azerty)
Case: Montech AIR 903 BASE ATX Mid Tower Case (€67.88 @ Amazon Belgium)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 - TT Premium Edition 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€155.26 @ Azerty)
Total: €2176.06
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-08 14:15 CEST+0200

AMD would cost you more, but you get the benefit of upgrade path, that Intel lacks.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 4.5 GHz 16-Core Processor (€542.95 @ Megekko)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€95.31 @ Azerty)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X670 AORUS ELITE AX (rev. 1.0) ATX AM5 Motherboard (€242.26 @ Azerty)
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory (€123.26 @ Azerty)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Video Card: ASRock Phantom Gaming OC Radeon RX 7900 XT 20 GB Video Card (€779.00 @ Azerty)
Case: Montech AIR 903 BASE ATX Mid Tower Case (€67.88 @ Amazon Belgium)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 - TT Premium Edition 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€155.26 @ Azerty)
Total: €2278.77
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-08 14:20 CEST+0200

 

[Lucky_SLS]

^ The only caveat being 7900XT's performance in openCL against the 4070ti super.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

...but I don't wish to have either of them, sorry

Choice of GPU is pretty much settled I think. I don't want anything good at generative AI. This excludes nvidia and, to a lesser extent, the 7xxx AMD generation GPUs. It's a weird requirement I know but I have my reasons.

Unless there is an excellent reason not to, I'll get a Radeon RX 6950 XT. It's about 83% as good at OpenCL as an RTX 4070 ti which should satisfy me.

 

[logainofhades]

...but I don't wish to have either of them, sorry

Choice of GPU is pretty much settled I think. I don't want anything good at generative AI. This excludes nvidia and, to a lesser extent, the 7xxx AMD generation GPUs. It's a weird requirement I know but I have my reasons.

Unless there is an excellent reason not to, I'll get a Radeon RX 6950 XT. It's about 83% as good at OpenCL as an RTX 4070 ti which should satisfy me.

I would still choose the AMD build, for upgrade path, but with your desired GPU. That gets it closer to your original 2k budget as well.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 4.5 GHz 16-Core Processor (€538.99 @ Amazon Belgium)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€95.31 @ Azerty)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X670 AORUS ELITE AX (rev. 1.0) ATX AM5 Motherboard (€242.26 @ Azerty)
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory (€123.26 @ Azerty)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Video Card: AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Radeon RX 6950 XT 16 GB Video Card (€549.00)
Case: Montech AIR 903 BASE ATX Mid Tower Case (€67.88 @ Amazon Belgium)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 - TT Premium Edition 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€155.26 @ Azerty)
Total: €2044.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-08 18:36 CEST+0200

 

[Lucky_SLS]

...but I don't wish to have either of them, sorry

Choice of GPU is pretty much settled I think. I don't want anything good at generative AI. This excludes nvidia and, to a lesser extent, the 7xxx AMD generation GPUs. It's a weird requirement I know but I have my reasons.

Unless there is an excellent reason not to, I'll get a Radeon RX 6950 XT. It's about 83% as good at OpenCL as an RTX 4070 ti which should satisfy me.

Which performance figures are you comparing?

The Geekbench openCL scores for 4070ti super and 6950XT:

https://browser.geekbench.com/opencl-benchmarks

AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT	170357
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER	223729

The 4070ti super is 31.3% faster than the the 6950XT

The 7900XT and 6950XT ties up in performance:

Radeon RX 7900 XT

186508

And regarding the type of OpenCL performance:

https://www.iwocl.org/resources/opencl-benchmarks/
"The Geekbench Compute Benchmark, developed by Primate Labs, measures the performance of GPUs performing common compute tasks, e.g. image processing. This benchmark takes from 2 to 10 minutes to complete and supports OpenCL."

Which is what you do, i think.

So yeah, all the reasons points to getting the 4070Ti Super.

Even with 7900XT and 6950XT, the 7900XT gives similar performance while using using 50W less power.

typical 6950XT card uses 400W at 100% utilisation. 7900XT uses about 350W while 4070ti Super uses 285W..

So your reason for 6950XT is not quiet clear to us...

Considering the above information, you would have to evaluate if you want 30% more GPU performance or more CPU performance with the 7950X like @logainofhades suggested in his latest build.

amd you can bring it to less than 2000 euros by going with an air cooler, absolutely fine for the 7950X:

https://be.pcpartpicker.com/product/zkWJ7P/thermalright-phantom-spirit-6617-cfm-cpu-cooler-ps120

 

[Lucky_SLS]

Nah, i think i used the correct type of OpenCL performance to evaluate image processing. Geekbench got nothing to do with AI. For AI stuff, you have Geekbench ML scores.

But more to the point, the decision now comes down to either more GPU performance or more CPU performance.

30% more GPU performance with 4070ti Super but slightly lower performance with 13700KF and DDR4

or

7950X with more CPU performance and less powerful 6950XT for 550 euros.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

I don't want anything good at generative AI precisely because I might very much like toying with generative AI. Both as a dev and as someone attracted by art. It frightens me in the same way heroin frightens people.

...told you it was weird :-D

Anyway, as irrational as it might appear, that is how it is.

Lucky_SLS, my 83% figures comes from comparing RTX 4070 ti (not super as you said, sorry, my mistake - but still a very good modern GPU) to RX 6950 XT : 206419 vs 170357, which translates to the latter being 83% as fast as the former.

There is currently a good deal on it on this website that can deliver goods to my country, I think : https://www.rueducommerce.fr/p-radeon-rx-6950-xt-amd-3509860-15333.html

So I'll take more CPU/RAM performance and less powerful GPU. Many image processing apps don't make very good use of the GPU yet anyway, not even Adobe ones. It takes a lot of effort to migrate old algorithms to modern technologies like the GPU, I suppose, and a full rewrite comes with risk of introducing unexpected changes.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

I would still choose the AMD build, for upgrade path, but with your desired GPU. That gets it closer to your original 2k budget as well.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 4.5 GHz 16-Core Processor (€538.99 @ Amazon Belgium)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€95.31 @ Azerty)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X670 AORUS ELITE AX (rev. 1.0) ATX AM5 Motherboard (€242.26 @ Azerty)
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory (€123.26 @ Azerty)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Storage: KIOXIA EXCERIA PRO 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€90.95 @ Megekko)
Video Card: AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Radeon RX 6950 XT 16 GB Video Card (€549.00)
Case: Montech AIR 903 BASE ATX Mid Tower Case (€67.88 @ Amazon Belgium)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 - TT Premium Edition 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€155.26 @ Azerty)
Total: €2044.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-08 18:36 CEST+0200

Going to study your AMD build tomorrow, with an air cooler as Lucky_SLS suggested. It's looking good. Very much appreciated

Just a quick question, do you confirm your 1050W choice of power supply ? It seems the estimated need of the system is 664W - I suppose because AMD CPUs are less power hungry than Intel ones. A 400W safety margin seems a bit much ?

 

[NedSmelly]

Just a quick question, do you confirm your 1050W choice of power supply ? It seems the estimated need of the system is 664W. A 400W safety margin seems a bit much ?

Rule of thumb is for system power consumption to be up to 65% of the PSU maximum output. This puts it in the optimum power efficiency zone.

 

[LonesomeAnt21]

Rule of thumb is for system power consumption to be up to 65% of the PSU maximum output. This puts it in the optimum power efficiency zone.

Had absolutely no clue about this. Thank you.