Question What should I focus on upgrading?

[bcemail]

I usually play older games and I'm used to turning setting down. I've finally got to a point where there are some games I want to play that really struggle. I'm realizing I will need to make some upgrades soon, but I don't know what to focus on. I haven't been paying attention to CPUs and GPUs for several years since I built my PC, so I'm not even familiar with current naming schemes.

I won't be spending a lot, so I was planning on getting something a gen or two old, which is what I did for my current setup, and I'm fine with getting used.

For day to day computer use, everything works fine. Some things are slower of course, like using photo software, but I'm not doing anything very intensive. Mostly it's gaming where I notice the lags and frame drops. Here's what I have:

Ryzen 7 1700X
Radeon RX 580 8GB
Gigabyte AB350M-DS3H-CF mobo
16 GB RAM

And my case is ATX but is smaller than some, so I'm not sure if every GPU would fit: Thetis case

Thanks!

 

[Lutfij]

Got a link to the ram kit you're working with? You forgot to mention the make and model of your PSY and it's age. You also forgot to mention the make and model of your storage options. BIOS version for your motherboard at this time? How're you cooling the processor?

You could look at a processor upgrade to the 3000 series or 5000 series provided you're ion the latest BIOS version and if you're not on a dual channel DDR4-3200MHz ram kit.

I won't be spending a lot, so I was planning on getting something a gen or two old, which is what I did for my current setup, and I'm fine with getting used.
Best that you stylize your post with info found in this post;

*How to Ask for New Build or Upgrade Advice*

How to Ask for New Build or Upgrade Advice First off, respect where respect is due - this is an adaptation of the Animal's *How To Ask For New Build Advice* Sticky. I created this because there's a lot of posts nowadays asking for upgrade advice both on here and on the CPU forums, and I feel...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I’d try to see if your board will accept a 5700x or better. Grab a 32gb ram kit. Then the last thing would be upgrade the gpu, possibly your power supply. Also do you have an ssd installed? That would be a budget upgrade. Once you swap the cpu, upgrade to windows 11.

 

[NedSmelly]

Agree with what others said, you’ll definitely notice a performance bump with a CPU upgrade. Ryzen 1st gen had relatively weak single thread performance.

Just take care with that motherboard, I had that same exact one previously and it’s got a fairly weak VRM. So it might not be as happy with the later 12+ core chips.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

The poster above has a point. If the vrms are weak on your board the 5700x is a 65 watt CPU iirc. So something like that out there 5700x3d is probably about the max you want to put on there.

 

[bcemail]

Thanks for the help! I would have thought that 5700x was a GPU which shows that I haven't been paying attention lately!

My PSU is a Corsair 650TX. My Ram says 16.0GB Single-Channel DDR4 @ 1330MHz (20-19-19-43)

As for VRM...I don't really know what that means! Would I need a new mobo with a new CPU? If there's something simple I can upgrade to I'm OK with that, just don't want to spend too much. Would a mobo and CPU be enough, or would I need new RAM too? Thanks so much!

 

[NedSmelly]

Assuming this is the correct motherboard model... check the CPU compatibility list here

You should also be someone who is comfortable with the task of updating the BIOS on a motherboard before considering do-it-yourself CPU upgrade. The right hand column of the chart mentioned above indicates the BIOS version you need to install before the motherboard will work with a given CPU.

VRM = voltage regulator module. They are the little square components adjacent to the CPU socket and under a heatsink. They control the power being delivered to the CPU. Cheaper VRMs are less efficient, get hotter, and are potentially less well regulated at higher outputs compared with more expensive ones. So even though the CPU chart above says that the DS3H is compatible with "105W TDP" processors, it's more suited to "65W TDP" or below processors.

That RAM of yours looks very Ryzen 1st gen day-one release spec (probably what enthusiasts would refer to as 2666 MT/s). It'll work with pretty much anything, but it's fairly slow compared to the latest DDR4 sticks (usually around 3200-3600MT/s)

 

[bcemail]

Assuming this is the correct motherboard model... check the CPU compatibility list here

You should also be someone who is comfortable with the task of updating the BIOS on a motherboard before considering do-it-yourself CPU upgrade. The right hand column of the chart mentioned above indicates the BIOS version you need to install before the motherboard will work with a given CPU.

VRM = voltage regulator module. They are the little square components adjacent to the CPU socket and under a heatsink. They control the power being delivered to the CPU. Cheaper VRMs are less efficient, get hotter, and are potentially less well regulated at higher outputs compared with more expensive ones. So even though the CPU chart above says that the DS3H is compatible with "105W TDP" processors, it's more suited to "65W TDP" or below processors.

That RAM of yours looks very Ryzen 1st gen day-one release spec (probably what enthusiasts would refer to as 2666 MT/s). It'll work with pretty much anything, but it's fairly slow compared to the latest DDR4 sticks (usually around 3200-3600MT/s)

That is the right board. Looking at the list, it seems like my 1700X is listed as 95W, and the 5700X is 65W, so that should be fine, right? And even though the specs of the two processors look similar, the 5700X is a pretty significant increase? (I know there's more to it than just the numbers listed). 5700X was saying it doesn't have a cooler, but the should the one on my 1700X be compatible?

My BIOS is F23 so would need to update it. Is that a tricky process? I built this one way back when, and I remember having some problems with it not booting, etc. So I'm happy to give it a try but I don't want to brick everything!

So maybe a CPU and RAM would be the way to go? Thanks!!

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Those things are where I’d start. On the bios updates, just read carefully. Some of them require you to install a certain bios version before you can get the latest versions. So you may end up flashing the bios 2-3 times.

 

[35below0]

Just in case you want to build a new PC, you should know that it's a good idea to buy one or two gens old, but sometimes older components are running out and selling for higher prices. So don't plan on buying too old.

What would be your budget, out of curiosity? If you reused your RAM, case, GPU and monitor, you could swing a huge upgrade for ~$500. Or more of course but that is up to you. Next year's GPUs are eagerly awaited and you might pickup a very good GPU for ~$250-300.

You suggest you don't play too many modern and demanding games, so such a build could serve you well for many years.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Just in case you want to build a new PC, you should know that it's a good idea to buy one or two gens old, but sometimes older components are running out and selling for higher prices. So don't plan on buying too old.

What would be your budget, out of curiosity? If you reused your RAM, case, GPU and monitor, you could swing a huge upgrade for ~$500. Or more of course but that is up to you. Next year's GPUs are eagerly awaited and you might pickup a very good GPU for ~$250-300.

You suggest you don't play too many modern and demanding games, so such a build could serve you well for many years.

He does have a good point. For example if you’ve got a microcenter near you, they usually run combo deals. Like right now you can pick up a z790 board, i5 12600kf and 16gb ddr4 for 250. They had the same deal with an i7 12700k for 329. Lot of others to, but you could go that route for example and maybe sell your old pieces as a kit for 150-200.

 

[NedSmelly]

So maybe a CPU and RAM would be the way to go? Thanks!!

You can just do the CPU alone and see how it goes, if you don’t want to pull the PC apart for full platform swap.

RAM speed may not make much appreciable difference if your apps aren’t sensitive to it (eg Office and light media editing).

5700X is about 50% faster than the 1700X. The old cooler will work.

 

[bcemail]

Just in case you want to build a new PC, you should know that it's a good idea to buy one or two gens old, but sometimes older components are running out and selling for higher prices. So don't plan on buying too old.

What would be your budget, out of curiosity? If you reused your RAM, case, GPU and monitor, you could swing a huge upgrade for ~$500. Or more of course but that is up to you. Next year's GPUs are eagerly awaited and you might pickup a very good GPU for ~$250-300.

You suggest you don't play too many modern and demanding games, so such a build could serve you well for many years.

He does have a good point. For example if you’ve got a microcenter near you, they usually run combo deals. Like right now you can pick up a z790 board, i5 12600kf and 16gb ddr4 for 250. They had the same deal with an i7 12700k for 329. Lot of others to, but you could go that route for example and maybe sell your old pieces as a kit for 150-200.

I was hoping to spend around $300 now, and I realize that a GPU is probably out of the question. Would it be worth it to get something like a 1080 for ~$125? Didn't know if that would be worth it in addition to the other stuff.

Sounds like maybe investing in a new mobo might be worth it? I have a Micro Center not too far, and I see they have some nice AMD and Intel bundles right now. Are either preferred or just down to preference? Some of them come with 16GB of DDR4, but do most people go for 32GB? Is DDR4 still good with DDR5 out there?

And will any of this be too much for my 650W PSU?

Oh, and would be cooler work with Intel or would I need a new one? I have this one. I'm guessing I might need to have a different bracket or something?

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[35below0]

I was hoping to spend around $300 now, and I realize that a GPU is probably out of the question.

$300 is not enough to buy a new gaming PC. The budget is tight but because you are reusing many parts it's possible to buy a intel motherboard that has room for future CPU upgrades. There are two i can think of.
If your PSU is not too old, you can keep it but if it's out of warranty it's not wise.

A GPU for $300 is not going to be enough improvement.
The problem is that your CPU can only send the data to the GPU so quickly. A better GPU could process the graphics faster but would still have to wait for the CPU.

This is why some of us here suggest going with a new computer, because your existing CPU+motherboard combo cannot be upgraded much. A 1080 would be a quick & dirty improvement on your RX580, but that's about it.

Would it be worth it to get something like a 1080 for ~$125? Didn't know if that would be worth it in addition to the other stuff.

No. Put the $125 towards a new GPU.
Reason is the CPU limit as mentioned above

Sounds like maybe investing in a new mobo might be worth it? I have a Micro Center not too far, and I see they have some nice AMD and Intel bundles right now. Are either preferred or just down to preference? Some of them come with 16GB of DDR4, but do most people go for 32GB? Is DDR4 still good with DDR5 out there?

I think it would be worth it in the long run.

Check out the Microcenter bundles. If you're unsure why not ask here? Sometimes a junk item is part of a bundle. You know how it is.

32Gb is better but if a bundle has a good price, 16 is acceptable. 16Gb will become a limiting factor in years to come but not yet. A 32Gb DDR4 kit will set you back $50 or less anyway.

DDR4 still good. Very good. If you're buying a new PC on a budget, DDR4 can still last 5-8 years, maybe 10. Depends on how soon software bloat and demanding games drive hardware development.

And will any of this be too much for my 650W PSU?

No, but it's the age of the PSU that is a concern. And the warranty.
You will be limited to a 4060 level GPU, without a new PSU. ...that's not bad.

Oh, and would be cooler work with Intel or would I need a new one? I have this one. I'm guessing I might need to have a different bracket or something?

It says it supports LGA1700 (Intel 12,13,14th gen) and AMD AM4 and AM5. You should look into the box/manual. There is a mounting bracket in there.
Worst case scenario, you'll need $20-40 for a new tower cooler.

Thanks again for all the help!

No problem, happy to help.

Here are two options:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor ($169.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Deepcool GAMMAXX GT A-RGB 64.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($0.00)
Motherboard: ASRock Z690 Extreme ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($129.99 @ Amazon)
*** optional Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ B&H)
Total: $389.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-04-29 14:07 EDT-0400

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-12100F 3.3 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($94.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock Z690 Extreme ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($129.99 @ Amazon)
*** optional Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ B&H)
Total: $314.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-04-29 14:07 EDT-0400


You can see the motherboard specs here: https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z690 Extreme/index.asp
The main feature is the power delivery actually. This motherboard can drive all 12, 13 and 14th gen intels. In the future, when you have the money you can upgrade to any one of them including i9. So you wont be in the situation where you have to buy a new motherboard or PC anytime soon.
Other features are good. Some very good. For the money, that z690 Extreme lives up to it's name.

The 12600K Intel is a major improvement over your existing Ryzen, and it will not limit any lower or mid tier GPUs.
You can continue to use your RX580, and your frame rates will improve. Graphics quality will be limited by the GPU though.
The 13600K CPU costs around $270 by itself. It would be a monstrous upgrade but it's not something you can afford right now. If you were willing to spend money on it... But as it is, you will have a decent CPU while you scout a good GPU. Maybe one of the new generation, or maybe you find a RTX 40XX, RX7800 or RX7900 GRE on sale.

If you find yourself with a better GPU than your CPU can handle, you can look for upgrades. And that's why i'm ultimately suggesting this motherboard. Because it's super cheap right now and can still handle any current gen Intel you throw at it.
The fact it's DDR4 shouldn't be an issue for a long time.


The other, cheaper option is less of an improvement right now but it still allows for future upgrades.
An i3 12100 is the least powerfull of the current intels and the cheapest. It's also doesn't have any e-cores, but has quite a nice boost clock for it's position in the lineup. With a motherboard that doesn't choke it, it can punch above it's weight.

It's still ultimately a very budget CPU and is only a modest improvement over the one you have.
But if you're limited to $300 you cannot do better.
If you choose this option, you will be looking at a CPU upgrade at the same time as your GPU upgrade. The bright side is that you never spent too much money on the CPU you're replacing.

Just be aware that a 12100F doesn't have integrated graphics, so you will have to reuse the RX580.
Or you can buy the more expensive 12100 - https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qrhFf7/intel-core-i3-12100-33-ghz-quad-core-processor-bx8071512100

Other CPUs to consider for the z690 Extreme:
13600K - https://pcpartpicker.com/product/LfNxFT/intel-core-i5-13600k-35-ghz-14-core-processor-bx8071513600k
13600KF - https://pcpartpicker.com/product/GV...600kf-35-ghz-14-core-processor-bx8071513600kf
14700K - https://pcpartpicker.com/product/BmWJ7P/intel-core-i7-14700k-34-ghz-20-core-processor-bx8071514700k

The 14700K is out of reach for now, but that may be your CPU some day. The more powerfull i9 14900K is... quite pricy but not that much better for the money. But who knows.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

5700X3D - 245 USD

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3ZKscf/amd-ryzen-7-5700x3d-3-ghz-8-core-processor-100-100001503wof

Which games are you playing? Or want to play?

Did you do a benchmark comparison with RX580?

 

[stonecarver]

Which games are you playing? Or want to play?

Same question I was thinking.

 

[bcemail]

$300 is not enough to buy a new gaming PC. ...

Thanks for all that info! I'll definitely read into all those options.

If I was going to stay with my mobo for simplicity, what about going for something like the Ryzen 5700X (~$175 or less if used), 32GB of newer DDR4 RAM (~$65), and then getting a used GPU for about $150 (maybe something like a 1080, 2060, 5700XT, 6600; I don't know enough about these to know which would be better bang for the buck)? I realize that won't be as significant an upgrade, but it would save me the hassle of swapping mobo, new OS install and getting everything loaded again, etc. I do use M.2 and SSDs so Windows doesn't feel sluggish, I'm mostly noticing it in games.

Thanks again!

 

[bcemail]

5700X3D - 245 USD

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3ZKscf/amd-ryzen-7-5700x3d-3-ghz-8-core-processor-100-100001503wof

Which games are you playing? Or want to play?

Did you do a benchmark comparison with RX580?

Above it was mentioned that the 5700X3D might use too much power for my mobo. How much of a difference is there with the 5700X?
I usually am a year or two behind on games due to being cheap. Almost always single player stuff. Lately it's been the RE remakes, Control, and then stuff like Hollow Knight and Ori. Tried to play Alan wake 2 and the system was not having it.

The kids play a certain mining game.

What comparison with the RX580 do you suggest? I used userbenchmark . com and when comparing older cards like the 1080, RX 6600, RX 5700XT, then all look waaaay faster and they seem to be available for pretty cheap.

Thanks!

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Of those gpus, 5700xt<6600=1080<2060.

Don’t buy the 1080 due to age.

The 5700x is roughly equivalent to Intel 12th gen probably the 12600, but no upgrade path after that. Which if you are ok with that just realize the next move will be a better mid range gpu later, then a new build.

Could also check out the 5600xt.

Something like this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1264504408...1QoO_yZSxW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[35below0]

Thanks for all that info! I'll definitely read into all those options.

If I was going to stay with my mobo for simplicity, what about going for something like the Ryzen 5700X (~$175 or less if used), 32GB of newer DDR4 RAM (~$65), and then getting a used GPU for about $150 (maybe something like a 1080, 2060, 5700XT, 6600; I don't know enough about these to know which would be better bang for the buck)? I realize that won't be as significant an upgrade, but it would save me the hassle of swapping mobo, new OS install and getting everything loaded again, etc. I do use M.2 and SSDs so Windows doesn't feel sluggish, I'm mostly noticing it in games.

Thanks again!

With a faster CPU even a used GPU would be a little better. But the word is little.

Yes, you would need to swap motherboards but i see it more as a new system build, just with old case, RAM, etc. being reused.

The 2060/6600 are better than the RX 580 and with a better CPU you'd enjoy better performance. If even a little bit of extra performance is good enough, then this is good. But it might be dissapointing.

It's too small of an improvement compared to a 12600K. That CPU is 3 or 4 tiers above the 1700X. Granted, you will not have a new GPU, but a RX580 to 2060 is a sideways move at best. Trade a poor card for a poor card.
A 4060 would be a different story. They sell for just under $300.

You have three uncomfortable choices for the $300:
1 - You upgrade your GPU to a 4060 and get limited by the old CPU+mobo
2 - You buy a new CPU+mobo, but gain no improvement in graphics quality because you kept the old RX 580
3 - You split the difference and upgrade both the CPU and GPU.

3 seems like it's the best choice, but i think the improvement will be too small to make a difference.
You just don't have the budget for a full upgrade, so either save up or upgrade part of your PC.
I recommend the z690 motherboard and 12600K CPU because that way you still have the door wide open for upgrades. Not to mention a much faster PC overall.
Staying with your current motherboard is what's limiting your choices so much. A problem you will not have if you upgrade to a far less limited motherboard.

If you're affraid of swapping your stuff over, i get you. I would be too. It's true that you will temporarily lose your PC, and if something goes wrong you will be very annoyed.
Once you build it and everything works and you move on, you'll forget all about the stress. But until then...

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Maybe slightly sideways upgrade but if you can step up to the 5700xt, this video may not be 100% accurate but it gives an idea.

View: https://youtu.be/zdJ5c7V72ds?feature=shared

 

[NedSmelly]

RTX 2060 Super is around 85% faster than the RX580 and will be OK with the existing power supply. Seen them around $150-180 on auction sites. Same performance as a GTX1080.

A Ryzen 5700 (or 5600) + RTX2060S is doable for $300 if you look hard enough, and will give a nice gaming performance boost.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

To add to what was said above, if you have 16gb of ram now, prioritize the cpu/gpu upgrades. Ram is dirt cheap for ddr4. You should be about to later pick up a 32gb kit for around 50-60 bucks.

 

[NedSmelly]

Tried to play Alan wake 2 and the system was not having it.

Yikes, I just saw this. I don’t think $300 will help much with this game. But my previous suggestion will run it at 30fps 1080p.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

https://www.ign.com/articles/alan-wake-2s-pc-specs-stun-fans-with-its-hefty-recommended-requirements

Requirements for Alan Wake 2. Theoretically the 5700xt should about do it?