1800X vs 2600X

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The RX 570 was always supposed to occupy the $150 - $200 range.

The GTX 1060 has always been overpriced.

Why isn't the 570 more popular? I've heard the term, mindshare, applied here. NVIDIA is perceived to be a better brand, and as such, even when ATI / AMD equipment has demonstrably and decisively better performance, NVIDIA still outsells them. I personally would attribute the initial blame on the folks buying NVIDIA cards but the market is clearly more complicated than that.
 

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I like how my almoust 9 years old Xonar sounds through my gear but I have heard good things about on-board S1220A and what my F Gaming is capable of but it's nice to hear what others have to say/recommend

I don't use bluetooth/usb and it's not gonna change

there's no Windows 10 driver for it but I found out that one of the Windows 8 works with it so I will give it a go

I'm pretty sure that XR 570 8 GB will serve me as well as 1060 6 GB...the only reason why I got NVIDIA to begin with was the price I have paid for it...- couldn' find anything else near that price-tag so it was a very easy decision

I miss the good old days where 'throw out' and 'replace' applied to necessity and where 'something new' ment 'something better' and not just 0,02% better or more confusing and unnecessery but...I'm just old-fashioned :) and what's even worst I still can't decide begween 1800x and 2600x :)
 
If I have been following correctly, the OP already has both an 1800X and a 2600X, so suggesting other chips isn't exactly useful. He's simply trying to decide which one of the two to keep.

Precision boost 2 and XFR2 work so well on Ryzen+, I can't for the life of me understand anybody wanting to try and achieve the same or similar levels of performance by overclocking a first gen Ryzen sku. You get the performance right from the get-go and don't have the possible issues that come with overclocking. IPC is also better, something you will enjoy regardless of how many cores are being used. Because of the need to use the extra two cores of the 1800X, and the need to perform overclocking just to try and match performance, it seems pretty easy to say that you will enjoy more performance from the 2600X. The occasions where you will use the extra execution resources of the 1800X are probably pretty rare, but the enhanced IPC and memory compatibility of the 2600X you will use 100% of the time. And the 2600X can also be overclocked, if that's really the road the OP wants to take.

It all becomes a moot point when the next release of the Ryzen architecture is announced in a few months. Gains there are said to be very good. Maybe at this point, the cheapest chip is in order, so you have less cost involved if the new chip is worth upgrading to?
 

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yes - I have already bought both because I knew that I will not get better CPU deal and I still have time (till Dec.23th) to return one of them (I could return both but it's gonna be one of those two because I will not find a better deal for the money where I live - most are almous sold out anyway so...; cheapest - where I live - 1700X costs more than what I paid for 2600X and some 20£ less then 1800X; cheapest 2600 is only 11£ less than 2600X etc. so I'm not gonna even try to look after anything else than those two which I already have)

in my opinion 2600X and 1800X are (for what I paid for them: 163£ and 197£) best of both worlds - so there's no need to look after anything else - not for me anyway :)

that's the thing...I do not want to upgrate anything for the next at least 4 years and that's why I'm trying to 'secure' my nerves for that period of time :)

I just want a fast, reliable, after my taste (within my budget) spot on best bung for the buck and from what I can see (my list) everything looks very (very) good (promising) - much better all-arounder (even incl. medium gaming) pc compared to any pre-build in this price range (900£ or less) without compromising when it comes to components - as much quality as possible (I'm sure that you know what I mean)

ps.:
impressive...looks like they (AMD) kept their promise; 1800X got a bit better since launch :)

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/267915-psa-the-amd-ryzen-7-1800x-is-faster-than-it-used-to-be
 
Well sure, performance numbers have improved, but still not to the point it bests the newer silicon, and it never will. It's unlikely that there is going to be a magical revolution in software that makes use of the extra two cores / four threads in the next four years to the point an 1800X will overcome both it's IPC and max speed deficit when compared to 2600X. The titles where it excels today are likely still going to be the same for the foreseeable future.
 
If you have both it depends then upon how much multitasking etc you do.

To the guy above asking why anyone would overclock a 1st generation ryzen trying to get zen+ performance, I'll tell you why in my case anyway:).

Have a friend who for whatever reason, had bought a 1700x a year ago, then when the 2700x was released he bought that. I just bought his 1700x used for 75 dollars. So using that, I'm getting parts together and building a system for me on a budget and reusing some of my old parts. Picking up a few new parts and frankensteining a system for my wife's home office from my ryzen 1600 system. I'm happy enough with the 1600, but when I could pick up an almost top of the line cpu for peanuts, temptation got the better of me.
 
I understand getting a one off special deal, and also benefiting from an upgrade. I don't understand recommending somebody take a crap shoot and buy based on the potential overclocking ability a device might have. Even if you end up with a golden 1700x, it will not match a 2600x except in the rare cases where the extra cores are used.

There is very little multi-tasking that is going to make good use of a 16 thread CPU on a regular basis, and for that matter, the 12 threads of the 2600x are probably more than the OP needs, especially if the OP isn't gaming much, and recording games even less. Video transcoding? Maybe, but if one doesn't do that on a regular basis, the difference in compute resources isn't going to be felt in a significant fashion. Whether one spends an extra few minutes every few weeks isn't going to justify the overall lower performance of the older architecture in everything else.
 

hi-there

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for ones I think that AMD gave as to many choices which are to close performance and (now - end of 2018) price-wise to each other...way to many, way to close

they needed to fill/close the gap in order to get relevant again (on the CPU marked) and they succeeded (not on pre-build market - not yet - but on diy marked) but I still think that they have produced a bit too many options way too close to each other (part of the process I guess...) creating unnecessary confusion for people like me :) (I think that there were like...???...- like 15 1th gen and now there's like 10 Zen+ CPU's to choose from, and yes - of course there's a difference between worst and best but all in-between'ers ware and still are way to close to each other)

let's say that I have open 25 tabs (some of them incl. more than just simple pictures and text) at ones while mixing and using let's say Skype and TeamViewer (plus all the Windows and other programs running in the background) - how and where does it fit CPU wise? - 2600X or 1800X?
 
Well, since your web browser is likely not going to be well threaded, and neither is anything else, the 2600x is still likely to be running using very low CPU usage under your described situation. Also, tabs should not be taking vast amounts of CPU resources if they are not your active tab. They should be throttled back when in the background, unless they are performing some sort of active process such as audio or video. If your web browser and other stuff is eating up all the available processing time on 12 threads, you likely have something going wrong with one of your programs.

If you're not regularly using up 12 threads, having 16 slower threads instead of 12 faster ones isn't going to net you much.
 
The 16 threads will be more useful for example if you are into Photoshop, video editing, maybe Excel or other applications, plus having browser and other apps all going at once. Not that there 2600 won't handle it, just that the 16 thread night do better.

If what you care about is single core speed, go for the 2600. I've been using a 1600 and it's plenty for my needs, I'm just upgrading to a 1700x because I got an exceptional deal on it. Had I not, I probably would have stayed with my 1600.

But basically the extra threads are for people who are doing a lot of things I mentioned about, maybe video editing and streaming video while gaming to YouTube etc. The extra threads hello where the system should not box down as much.
 

hi-there

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there will be - in many of the tabs - some audio and video 'movement' (I can't use anything now/not anymore - my gear is worn out bit-BIG time and no matter what I'm trying to do is just...- simple one tab = up to 15sek. to open not to mentio what is goin on when I'm trying to scroll up or down etc. so you can imagine the rest :) )

it all comes to:
8 stabile (OC) cores at 3.8-3.9
or
6 stabile (OC) cores at 4.1-4.2
and a 34£ (~43$) price difference
 
The bottleneck in most video and photo editing is the human, not the CPU. Much of Photoshop is not well threaded, and generally tends to favor single core performance over threaded, along with most of the aspects of the video editing process. It's rendering video previews and final output that tend to stress the CPU and maybe a few Photoshop filters.

It almost seems to me that there is a misconception here that having a lot of software open is going to somehow put a greater stress on the CPU. It's not. Heavy loading like that is very application specific, and it's even specific to certain aspects of that application and not going to happen the whole time that software is open. It's very few tasks that are going to be able to fully utilize the CPU, and with a single, well threaded task, you can use up the whole of your available CPU resources. You don't need to look for a bunch of ways to use up the CPU, you just need a single task designed to use such wide execution resources. A perfect example is CPU benchmarking software. It doesn't do any practical work other than to measure equipment against an arbitrary metric, but it's a simple example of a single program that can easily use up all CPU resources. When it comes to having a bunch of software open that is not well threaded, you're going to max out a single thread, maybe even 2 - 4 if the software has some threading going on, but only in the program you have running focused in the foreground, and only for the duration of time your software is heavily loaded.

Another aspect you're overlooking is, Ryzen tends to suffer a lower IPC when overclocked. Because it can boost threads further in short bursts than most overclocks can achieve, and because it's boost is disabled when overclocking, unless you're regularly loading many of your overclocked cores at a rate higher than the boost would have, you could have a net loss in overall system responsiveness, along with a higher rate of power consumption. Overclocking Ryzen tends to be a compromise. If you can't get your chip to overclock higher than it's normal boost, you end up losing performance in some cases. That's the reason the non-X parts are such a good value, because they often overclock higher than their default boost on all cores, but they are still binned and 3.8 is not an unheard of max speed to see out of them.

Something else to consider, if you really plan to leave that much software open regularly, and load up that many tabs in a web browser (web browsers aren't models of efficiency), you should consider putting more RAM into the system. 16 GB is plenty if you're just playing one game at a time and doing some streaming, but if you need Photoshop open, Excel, several dozen tabs, chat software, etc., et al, you don't want to waste system time for lack of enough memory to keep everything from page swapping. You're not going to care what CPU you have if your need of RAM exceeds what the system is equipped with.

Just because your current system is having issues on the web, doesn't mean it's all the fault of your current system. Yes, it may be a slow system, but there are many, many badly built websites that use designs like perpetual scrolling and nasty habits such as being nothing more than fully animated ad-servers, that will bring even the best machine you can buy to a slow crawl. Web browsers can only do so much with content, and once you hit the limit for their threading and tab separation, you end up with a few cores being fully loaded and the browser responsiveness grinding to a halt. I doubt we will see single threaded CPU performance overcome bad web design anytime soon, and even if we did, the bad pages will probably just get worse.
 

hi-there

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everything went down when my water pump stopped working and I had to changed it from 1000L to 600L (I think that they stopped producing 1000L - I couldn't find one no matter where I was looking - Germany, UK, U name it...) but...- it's a very old system that has served me more then well for almoust 10 years so it's time to move on anyway - sad but true :) (old school huge cube tower, watercooled mobo/GPU/HDD - and I'm not looking forward to this new AIO innovations A-T A-L-L...)

I think that I will put those 34£ (difference between 2600X vs. 1800X) aside together with 38£ which I saved by downgrading from 1060 to 570 and return both 1800X and Be Quiet Dark Rock 3 (additional 30£ saved) which I was only wanted to keep as reserve (really great fan - I know how well it works from another machine - and for what I paid for it: undisputed!) but since 2600X comes with it's own - no need for me to keep Dark Rock

the sites I'm opening/using are build well (they are - most of them - the same sites I always used) - but it doesn't matter if it's (and which) news and sport news site or if it Youtube or reddit or even tomshardware I'm trying to use (or even open :) )...my gear is just done and done...

 
Fair enough. Nobody can tell you what your level of acceptable performance is, and it sounds like you know the difference between those nasty tabloid like sites and a reasonably laid out site. :)

Ten years is a pretty good run for equipment. I know I still have a couple cases that are over ten years old, but they have Ryzen systems in them now. No sense throwing out good equipment when it's still more than adequate for what I'm doing.

I'm definitely not a big fan of water cooling. Too much maintenance and other potential issues, and can't stand the performance of AIO coolers. Given the option, I go big air.
 

hi-there

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my level of acceptable performance is:

- everything runs as fast and as stabile as possible (of course I do not expect more than what I paid for - just being realistic about my gear)

my old system was (back in the day :) ) just top of the line/non mainstream components all the way but I do not have funds this time for such a project so I'm going for best (within my budget) bank for the buck...

in my world nothing beats old school water cooling...so easy (not while putting together but afterwards :) ) and rewarding concept...expensive - yes, but nothing beats good water cooled mobo/HDD/GPU