[SOLVED] 2080 max Q running only 60% in task manager

[jslinger]

[EDIT] go to the few posts around the answer, there you will find the answer to the problem on this thread, the rest is not relevant.



My gpu is only running at around 60% when benchmarking games, wich decreases my game performance.
average fps of rainbow six siege at high settings is 200fps while mine only has 120. thats around the same as a rtx 2060.
i clearly have a rtx 2080 max Q with fully updated drivers.
i have undervolted this laptop's i7 8750H 210 millivolts with throttlestop.
i have set all power management options to max performance in both nvidia control panel and windows settings.
the laptop is clearly not throttling because it has liquid metal cooling and undervolting. the cpu temperature stays under 70 degrees all the time.
why is my gpu running lower than it should and decreasing my performance?

specs:
intel i7 8750H
nvidia rtx 2080 max Q
16GB kingston memory 2400mhz
1tb intel 660p
windows 64bit
Clevo thin and light 16 inch barebone.

 

[Phaaze88]

https://www.userbenchmark.com/ (post your results)

You mention gpu usage, but what is your cpu usage at?
You mention your cpu temps, but what about the gpu temps?

..average fps of rainbow six siege at high settings is 200fps while mine only has 120. thats around the same as a rtx 2060.

Well that's because the 2080 Max-Q is on par with the desktop 2060: RTX 2080 Max-Q vs RTX 2060 6GB this is just for reference
Mobile versions do not perform on the same tier as their desktop cousins of similar name; they are weaker, and this is due to space and thermal restrictions.
This is even worse for the Max-Q versions, as they have slightly lower core and memory clocks by design so as not to exceed 100w.
From weakest to strongest: 2080 Max-Q > 2080 (mobile) >>>> 2080.

 

[jslinger]

https://www.userbenchmark.com/ (post your results)

You mention gpu usage, but what is your cpu usage at?
You mention your cpu temps, but what about the gpu temps?


Well that's because the 2080 Max-Q is on par with the desktop 2060: RTX 2080 Max-Q vs RTX 2060 6GB this is just for reference
Mobile versions do not perform on the same tier as their desktop cousins of similar name; they are weaker, and this is due to space and thermal restrictions.
This is even worse for the Max-Q versions, as they have slightly lower core and memory clocks by design so as not to exceed 100w.
From weakest to strongest: 2080 Max-Q > 2080 (mobile) >>>> 2080.

My gpu temps never go higher than 80, but is running at 60% or lower.
my cpu usage is 100%. my gpu usage is just not going higher than 60%.
Intel integrated graphics are also not going higher than 50%.
i meant with the rtx 2060 the max Q variant. my 2080 max Q runs the same as a rtx 2060 max Q.
my frames are supposed to be around 200, but is averaged arount 110 with my benchmark.

 

[Phaaze88]

...
[my cpu usage is 100%]. my gpu usage is just not going higher than 60%.
...

That there lies the problem - or part of. The reason the gpu isn't doing much is because the cpu is maxed out.

Download and run HWINFO. Select 'Sensors Only', and post either a screenshot or imgur.com pic(s) including the voltages, clock speeds, and thread usage while playing the game.
Again, go here (https://www.userbenchmark.com/) and post your results.

Looking at the 8750H's base specs, it's on the slow side at only 2.2ghz, but it boosts relatively high - a 4.1ghz single core boost, and 3.9ghz across all 6 cores.
Me thinks that 210 mv(which is pretty significant) undervolt gimped your boost clocks = runs slower, which is why it's maxed out as it is.

 

[jslinger]

That there lies the problem - or part of. The reason the gpu isn't doing much is because the cpu is maxed out.

Download and run HWINFO. Select 'Sensors Only', and post either a screenshot or imgur.com pic(s) including the voltages, clock speeds, and thread usage while playing the game.
Again, go here (https://www.userbenchmark.com/) and post your results.

Looking at the 8750H's base specs, it's on the slow side at only 2.2ghz, but it boosts relatively high - a 4.1ghz single core boost, and 3.9ghz across all 6 cores.
Me thinks that 210 mv(which is pretty significant) undervolt gimped your boost clocks = runs slower, which is why it's maxed out as it is.

my userbenchmark score is: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/18724485
HWmonitor images:

https://imgur.com/a/2Pu7tXi

View: https://imgur.com/a/2Pu7tXi

https://imgur.com/a/NKDrLVI

View: https://imgur.com/a/NKDrLVI


what is different is when i play rainbow six siege on another monitor with the same resolution and Hz thru hdmi, my fps is significantly higher, but still not as it should be and still not using all its power.
when i play grand theft auto V it doesnt even go higher than 10%, averaging about 50 fps....

 

[Phaaze88]

You missed posting a pic of the core temps, but there is a red flag in the second pic; cpu package(usually reflects the state of the hottest core)/cpu ring thermal throttling.
So there actually IS thermal throttling going on.
What I've gathered from Userbenchmark is that you've got quite a number of things going on in the background while you play, which pegs all your cores to max, and your current cooling can't handle that, thus throttling, which would explain the current behavior between the cpu and gpu.

What you can do is to open task manager and close programs you don't need while gaming. Browser, skype(if you're not using it at the time), etc, close 'em. Leave windows processes alone.
If there are programs you're not sure about, you can check them via right-clicking and clicking properties.
Download and run adwcleaner: https://www.malwarebytes.com/adwcleaner/ (quarantine and erase everything it finds, if there is anything.)
Also look into getting a cooling pad. Those 6 core hyperthreaded cpus can get quite warm.

 

[jslinger]

You missed posting a pic of the core temps, but there is a red flag in the second pic; cpu package(usually reflects the state of the hottest core)/cpu ring thermal throttling.
So there actually IS thermal throttling going on.
What I've gathered from Userbenchmark is that you've got quite a number of things going on in the background while you play, which pegs all your cores to max, and your current cooling can't handle that, thus throttling, which would explain the current behavior between the cpu and gpu.

What you can do is to open task manager and close programs you don't need while gaming. Browser, skype(if you're not using it at the time), etc, close 'em. Leave windows processes alone.
If there are programs you're not sure about, you can check them via right-clicking and clicking properties.
Download and run adwcleaner: https://www.malwarebytes.com/adwcleaner/ (quarantine and erase everything it finds, if there is anything.)
Also look into getting a cooling pad. Those 6 core hyperthreaded cpus can get quite warm.

sorry for the late response, im not home for quite a time.
there were absolutely no things running in the background except discord.
there is absolutly no difference when i close as many as possible background tabs.
when playing gta v my gpu only runs on 10%.
also, when i play on another screen not connected to intel hd graphics but the nvidia hdmi slot, the gpu percentage is significantly higher on all games. maybe it has to do something with the intel hd graphics being connected to the laptop display?
adw cleaner detects no items on my system. (its brand new)
if there is thermal throttling, how? my system is undervolted, has liquid metal cooling, temps are not extremely high, and the cpu always runs at 100%.
there is btw nothing useful in the bios.

 

[jslinger]

these are the hwinfo images with gta V running in the background ( cant take screenshots of hwinfo while playing the game)

https://imgur.com/a/voFcReF

View: https://imgur.com/a/voFcReF

https://imgur.com/a/NqsRN61

View: https://imgur.com/a/NqsRN61

https://imgur.com/a/gIggK3V

View: https://imgur.com/a/gIggK3V

https://imgur.com/a/IlIsYqM

View: https://imgur.com/a/IlIsYqM

https://imgur.com/a/TgGOV1T

View: https://imgur.com/a/TgGOV1T

these are the images when rainbow six siege runs in the background.

https://imgur.com/a/Fninhqz

View: https://imgur.com/a/Fninhqz

https://imgur.com/a/IKrp4ia

View: https://imgur.com/a/IKrp4ia

https://imgur.com/a/bIDksWx

View: https://imgur.com/a/bIDksWx

https://imgur.com/a/XSWuTtM

View: https://imgur.com/a/XSWuTtM

https://imgur.com/a/ybstC9U

View: https://imgur.com/a/ybstC9U

 

[Phaaze88]

Remove the undervolt. If you were having issues with cooling before that, then get a cooling pad.
What graphics settings are you using? Low, medium, high, ultra?

You mentioned doing a -210mv undervolt, but HWINFO says it's twice that - that's still pretty significant. [Core clock average is low.]
Your cores can't sustain their max clocks because you're denying them the voltage they need to do so.

GTA V:
-Will max out all of your cores. But those cores are running slower due to the undervolt.
-Although you have 16GBs of ram, it's only in single channel. This hinders cpu performance even further, as the 2 work in tandem with one another. Ideally, you want dual channel(2 sticks) mode for games.
-This game never really cared much for gpu resources, but it's lower than usual, because the cpu is maxed out.

R6 Seige:
-Overall, this game isn't as hard on your system as GTA V is, that's why performance is better here.
-You want dual channel mode for games, period.

 

[jslinger]

Remove the undervolt. If you were having issues with cooling before that, then get a cooling pad.
What graphics settings are you using? Low, medium, high, ultra?

You mentioned doing a -210mv undervolt, but HWINFO says it's twice that - that's still pretty significant. [Core clock average is low.]
Your cores can't sustain their max clocks because you're denying them the voltage they need to do so.

GTA V:
-Will max out all of your cores. But those cores are running slower due to the undervolt.
-Although you have 16GBs of ram, it's only in single channel. This hinders cpu performance even further, as the 2 work in tandem with one another. Ideally, you want dual channel(2 sticks) mode for games.
-This game never really cared much for gpu resources, but it's lower than usual, because the cpu is maxed out.

R6 Seige:
-Overall, this game isn't as hard on your system as GTA V is, that's why performance is better here.
-You want dual channel mode for games, period.

what your saying is not an explanation why my cpu is only using 60% at r6 and only using 10% at gtaV.
why is my performance much better when using another display connected to hdmi?
why is my cpu thermal throttling according to you while it does not even reach 80C, while intel chips usually throttle at 90C.
why are you recommending a cooling pad when i dont even have any thermal issues.
16gb single channel vs dual channel cannot make a difference in performace that big.
when removing the undervolt, it stays exactly the same.
the -400mv was only offset voltage. the cpu cache undervolt can not go lower than -100mv.
because my cpu maxes out on r6, the only option i see for the gpu performance decrease is a bottleneck. when using another display, the gpu maxes out on 70-80%, which makes sense when a bottleneck occurs.
what does not make sense is when using the integrated laptop display the performance is much worse than using a secondary screen.

 

[Phaaze88]

1)That 60% cpu usage is looking at the overall usage. Look at the usage of each core. You will find that R6 Siege is maxing at most a couple of cores.
You meant 10% gpu right? Well, the answer for that was also in my previous post, but... GTA V uses little gpu resources, it's cpu and ram heavy.
Gpu usage is lower than usual because of all the cores maxing out + they're running slower. The gpu is finishing it's tasks and idling because it's waiting on the cpu.

2)What are the specs of this other display? If it has a higher native resolution of the laptop, that would give the cpu more 'breathing room'. Higher res is more work for the gpu.

3)Go back to the 2nd pic you posted in this thread. There is but one red flag indicating throttling. That's why I said that.
But in the images afterwards, this is not present. Probable bad timing of screen capture, but I don't believe it was a coincidence.

4)Goes back to number 3, and because I suggested you remove the undervolt, which would cause temperatures to increase, which stock cooling likely won't be enough to handle.

5)I wouldn't be so sure about that... It does make a difference in some titles. It also has a greater impact when the cpu is being maxed out.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XmCE7Qfbt4

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5wA7EFwpo


6)What stays exactly the same?

7)That offset applies to both idle and load clocks. The cores attempt to boost to their max, but due to the offset, they can't maintain those speeds, so they clock down to speeds within the offset's parameters. And they will constantly attempt to do this.

8)R6 Siege is just maxing out on 1 or 2 threads(the primary threads)... and that's all it takes to stagnate performance. GTA V will max on all 6.

9)It does make sense if the secondary screen is of a higher resolution than the laptop's. Higher resolutions take some of the load off the cpu and place it on the gpu, and vice versa.
Also, your in-game graphics settings affect this to some extent. For example: a 1280 x 720p screen has 921,600 pixels. A 1920 x 1080 screen has 2,073,600 pixels. That's over 2x the pixel density.
So yeah, a gpu is going to do more on the 1080p monitor than the 720p one. If I am wrong here, I'm sorry, but I'm just guessing the resolutions of your monitors, you haven't provided the specs.

 

[jslinger]

1)That 60% cpu usage is looking at the overall usage. Look at the usage of each core. You will find that R6 Siege is maxing at most a couple of cores.
You meant 10% gpu right? Well, the answer for that was also in my previous post, but... GTA V uses little gpu resources, it's cpu and ram heavy.
Gpu usage is lower than usual because of all the cores maxing out + they're running slower. The gpu is finishing it's tasks and idling because it's waiting on the cpu.

2)What are the specs of this other display? If it has a higher native resolution of the laptop, that would give the cpu more 'breathing room'. Higher res is more work for the gpu.

3)Go back to the 2nd pic you posted in this thread. There is but one red flag indicating throttling. That's why I said that.
But in the images afterwards, this is not present. Probable bad timing of screen capture, but I don't believe it was a coincidence.

4)Goes back to number 3, and because I suggested you remove the undervolt, which would cause temperatures to increase, which stock cooling likely won't be enough to handle.

5)I wouldn't be so sure about that... It does make a difference in some titles. It also has a greater impact when the cpu is being maxed out.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XmCE7Qfbt4

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5wA7EFwpo


6)What stays exactly the same?

7)That offset applies to both idle and load clocks. The cores attempt to boost to their max, but due to the offset, they can't maintain those speeds, so they clock down to speeds within the offset's parameters. And they will constantly attempt to do this.

8)R6 Siege is just maxing out on 1 or 2 threads(the primary threads)... and that's all it takes to stagnate performance. GTA V will max on all 6.

9)It does make sense if the secondary screen is of a higher resolution than the laptop's. Higher resolutions take some of the load off the cpu and place it on the gpu, and vice versa.
Also, your in-game graphics settings affect this to some extent. For example: a 1280 x 720p screen has 921,600 pixels. A 1920 x 1080 screen has 2,073,600 pixels. That's over 2x the pixel density.
So yeah, a gpu is going to do more on the 1080p monitor than the 720p one. If I am wrong here, I'm sorry, but I'm just guessing the resolutions of your monitors, you haven't provided the specs.

1.
if my 8750H is maxing out and decreasing performance, why arent the other 8750H's? because looking at other people their benchmarks with the same specs, it is much, much higher. also look at my userbenchmark run: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/18978105 it also says my gpu is not performing like the others.
but my cpu is. the cores are not running slower btw, because when turning off the undervolt it makes no difference.

2.
the secondary display is also 1080p and 144hz.
the only difference between these displays is size in inch.

4.
it seems stock cooling is able to keep the cpu temperatures under 80 degrees.

5.
are you actually sure the single channel is a major factor in performance decrease?
if so, that may be something to keep in mind when thinking about upgrading to 32 in the future.

6.
everything, the performance and usage percentages.

8.
how come other laptops with the same combination (8750h + 2080max q) have much better performance on all games?

9.
you are not wrong if it was the case for my second monitor, but it isnt. it is exactly the same. i cant check again, because im not home, but it was from 100fps average on r6 to 170-180 (medium settings). still not 220(high settings) as it should be on other people's benchmarks. thats why i thought maybe it has to do something with the intel graphics or something like that. because the laptop screen is connected to the integrated graphics.

thanks by the way for your time. really appriciate it.
also excuse me if my english isnt great, i dont speak english in my country.

 

[Phaaze88]

What is the make and model of your laptop?

I'm looking at the laptops with similar specs to yours, and the numbers have been very close among one another, except ram.
The systems running dual channel score twice as high in the ram benchmark, but that does NOT translate well into actual in-game performance.
Depending on the game engine, you can see more than a 10fps difference in performance between the 2 ram modes. Single channel is not ideal for maxing out in performance in games.

Do a search on "GTA V not using dedicated gpu". This appears to be a common issue on laptops with switchable graphics and also fault to Rockstar for not having bothered to fix this crap after all this time.
Open Nvidia control panel, go to 'Manage 3D Settings', and click the 'Program Settings' tab. On #1 - select a program to customize, are you able to select GTA V?
You would then personalize settings down below, and then click 'add' - I may have these last 2 reversed though.

Also, are you using Geforce Experience? The software sucks, and you're better off manually configuring settings yourself. If so, reinstall the driver, and opt for a clean install.
Of course, this means you will have to reconfigure settings for max performance again as well.

About the relative performance of your 2080 max-q to others: So, the scumbags at Nvidia had launched 2 versions of that model, with no real way to tell them apart, the original 80w and a faster clocked 90w model - it's less than 10% faster on average, but still faster nonetheless.
Guess which one you ended up with...

With what I have managed to figure out so far, the reason the secondary monitor works is due to the drivers behind the switchable graphics. It triggers them to switch to the 2080, go figure...
Their supposed to switch from the igpu to the 2080 whenever you go to play a game, but they don't appear to be all that smart.

 

[jslinger]

What is the make and model of your laptop?

I'm looking at the laptops with similar specs to yours, and the numbers have been very close among one another, except ram.
The systems running dual channel score twice as high in the ram benchmark, but that does NOT translate well into actual in-game performance.
Depending on the game engine, you can see more than a 10fps difference in performance between the 2 ram modes. Single channel is not ideal for maxing out in performance in games.

Do a search on "GTA V not using dedicated gpu". This appears to be a common issue on laptops with switchable graphics and also fault to Rockstar for not having bothered to fix this crap after all this time.
Open Nvidia control panel, go to 'Manage 3D Settings', and click the 'Program Settings' tab. On #1 - select a program to customize, are you able to select GTA V?
You would then personalize settings down below, and then click 'add' - I may have these last 2 reversed though.

Also, are you using Geforce Experience? The software sucks, and you're better off manually configuring settings yourself. If so, reinstall the driver, and opt for a clean install.
Of course, this means you will have to reconfigure settings for max performance again as well.

About the relative performance of your 2080 max-q to others: So, the scumbags at Nvidia had launched 2 versions of that model, with no real way to tell them apart, the original 80w and a faster clocked 90w model - it's less than 10% faster on average, but still faster nonetheless.
Guess which one you ended up with...

With what I have managed to figure out so far, the reason the secondary monitor works is due to the drivers behind the switchable graphics. It triggers them to switch to the 2080, go figure...
Their supposed to switch from the igpu to the 2080 whenever you go to play a game, but they don't appear to be all that smart.

we both ended up at the same conclusion.
its the utterly stupid nvidia optimus thing.
it lets the 2080 render the game when selected in the control panel (what i already did), then the igpu shows it on the laptop display. but that makes it so much slower.
nvidia optimus is a hardware thing, impossible to change thru software. the option in nvidia control panel also does almost nothing at all because the automatic selection will automatically use the nvidia card on games.
i do not complain about the different wattages, because i paid for a 2070 but got a 2080 anyway, so no problem there. but still, nvidia optimus ruined my laptop game performance. im not going to game a lot on this laptop, but still, -100 fps on my games is just fucking stupid when having a 2080.
it does improve battery life, thats why nvidia made it, but who buys a 2070 or 2080 laptop when he wants battery life.
i absolutely will uninstall nvidia geforce experience like i did on my desktop, because it glitches all the time and fucks up cpu usage.

 

[Phaaze88]

You said it better than I did.
Who the hell is concerned with power saving when using high end gpus...

 

[jslinger]

You said it better than I did.
Who the hell is concerned with power saving when using high end gpus...

exactly.
bunch of clowns at nvidia headquarters.
in my opinion, well, probably almost everyone's opinion, nvidia optimus is a big fail.

 

[Phaaze88]

Part of this is still also Rockstar's fault for not bothering to work with Nvidia to patch their own dang game so it wouldn't on igpus.
GTA V is how old now?

 

[jslinger]

Part of this is still also Rockstar's fault for not bothering to work with Nvidia to patch their own dang game so it wouldn't on igpus.
GTA V is how old now?

very old. from 2013. considering the extreme amounts of money they made from it, it should not be hard to patch it.
its actually annoying, because gta was likely one of the only games i would play on this laptop i think.
still, it is playable on 60fps. just stupid, because it could be 200fps.