Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.tyan (
More info?)
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-1902050110290001@192.168.1.177...
> In article <qI4Od.9643$WD4.4453@twister.socal.rr.com>, "R. J. Salvi"
> <rjsalvi@nospamambianceacoustics.com> wrote:
>
>> "dr ratt" <spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:4208d0e7$0$4082$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> >
>> > "R. J. Salvi" <rjsalvi@nospamambianceacoustics.com> wrote in message
>> > news:eCXNd.10260$BS.4579@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> >> "dr ratt" <spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >> news:42084005$0$4096$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> >> >> > "R. J. Salvi" <rjsalvi@nospamambianceacoustics.com> wrote in
>> >> >> > message
>> >> >> > news:_C_Ld.5865$WD4.5042@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> >> >> Using *only* RAM, CPUs, AIW 9700 Pro, switching BIOS to use IRQ for
>> >> >> VGA
>> >> > and
>> >> >> using a 12V power connector with nothing else on the line...no
>> >> >> POST,
>> > vid
>> >> > or
>> >> >> beeps. It tries to boot for a split second, then dies. If I
>> >> >> disconnect
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> 12V connector from the AIW, everything powers up and I get the
>> > on-screen
>> >> > ATI
>> >> >> error message that I need to connect a 12V power source to the
>> >> >> card.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Any thoughts?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> P.S., BIOS changes were made with a different video card installed
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > does the 9700 aiw work in another system? as you've covered all the
>> > other
>> >> > bases, i thought i'd ask the obvious.
>> >>
>> >> Yes. Flawlessly. It's almost as if attaching that 12V aux. connector
>> >> to
>> > the
>> >> card is triggering something on the motherboard to switch the PSU off.
>> >> Without attaching the connector, everything fires up except I can't
>> >> get
>> > past
>> >> the ATI (attach 12V connector) on-screen error message.
>> >>
>> >
>> > ok then, to scrape the barrel, when i replaced a faulting ram module,
>> > the
>> > board refused to boot until i had defaulted the cmos via jumper.
>> > failing
>> > that i'm stuck, too.
>> > checking the tyan website, 9700pro cards are recommended but aiw are
>> > not,
>> > also tyan but there are plenty of recommendations in the 2cpu.com
>> > forums,
>> > so
>> > i'd guess there's no inherent incompatibility problem.
>> > this one's got my goat, please post if you find answers before i do.
>>
>> I'm beginning to think that the AIW 9700 Pro in combination with the 2600
>> MPs is too much for the PSU's 5V rail to handle at boot. I could always
>> search for the uber PSU -- though I thought the Antec 550 qualified --
>> but I
>> think at this point I'm going to drop the Radeon 9000 Pro back in and
>> forget
>> about it. If I do decide to revisit this issue in the future, I'll post
>> the
>> findings. Thanks for your help!
>
> Is this the motherboard with the ampere capacity problem ? There
> are four pins that carry +5V, each can carry 6 amps before it
> overheats. Based on the comments in these threads, the processors
> are drawing power from +5V. Two 60W processors would draw 12 amps
> from +5V, which would be the limit of the four +5V pins. Any other
> load (like a video card) could be too much for it. If you can use
> processors using much less than 60W, the problem would be solved,
> only that would make performance so bad, why bother with a dually.
>
>
http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?threadid=13703
>
http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?threadid=28746
>
> The second thread suggests wiring up extra +5V connections. That
> will likely be enough to prevent burning the connector.
>
> Note that the method shown in the second thread, requires soldering
> to the back of the ATX connector. If you get the pins hot enough,
> there is some danger of distorting the pin within the plastic
> shell, so it is no longer centered. An alternative method, would
> be to find a connection somewhere else to solder to. The copper
> planes on the board are suitable - making a connection to them
> requires scraping off the solder resist coating, tinning the
> copper with a big soldering iron, then reflow soldering the
> wire to the plane. But you have to figure out which plane is
> which, something you can do with an ohmmeter.
>
> If you are not in to warranty voiding mods, then contact Tyan
> and find out what they are doing to fix this problem for their
> customers.
>
> You should also be examining the label on your power supply.
> If this hardware configuration is drawing enough current to
> burn the pins on the power connector, the PSU could be getting
> overloaded too, unless it is rated for +5V@30A or more. That
> would allow current for two 60W processors, and leave you with
> just 5 amps more current to work with. I hope Tyan wasn't silly
> enough to connect more than just the processors to the +5V rail.
> My ATI 9800Pro draws 5.5A from its auxiliary power cable, a
> disk drive draws 1A from +5V, so you can see these loads rapidly
> add up, and in this case, a really beefy +5V amperage rating
> is required, if you expect the PSU to last for any period of time.
>
> If the ratings are for real, this power supply will solve any
> potential problems. 5V@61A !
>
>
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-101-406&depa=0
>
> Note that, even if you buy the power supply above, the fact that
> it supplies 61 amps is only preventing the power supply from being
> damaged by the heavy load. It doesn't prevent the ATX connector
> from being burned, unless you do the wire bypass mod mentioned
> in the thread above. Both things must be done (sufficient current
> capability on the PSU, and sufficient wires to carry the current
> into the board.) You have to do something to be able to
> pass more than 24 amps into the motherboard, and the wiring of
> an extra connector is enough to correct the potential to burn
> the connector. (Or at least find out how Tyan proposes to modify
> their product to prevent this from happening.)
>
> Also, the PCMCIS ATX 500W supply doesn't really supply 61 amps
> at +5V. It has a 235W limit for the combined output of +3.3V
> and +5V. If no +3.3V was being drawn (absurd assumption), then
> +5V can supply 47 amps. A reasonable number for +3.3V might
> be 10 to 15 amps, so you could have +3.3@10A and +5V@40A and be
> within the 235W limit for combined output. 40A is plenty to
> run the system.
Yes, we're talking about the same board. I think the following are
contributing to the boot problem with the AIW 9700 Pro installed:
A.) The Antec 550 has dedicated lines for each voltage rail with the 5V @
40A (200W max.)
B.) The motherboard does not have an aux. 12V connector for the CPUs and
since the PSU has dedicated voltage lines, it leaves the 5V rail on the
Antec to shoulder completely, the 5V consumption needs
C.) The CPUs I'm using are beyond the specifications of what the motherboard
was originally designed for -- even though they work fine -- further
increasing 5V current draw.
I thought the Antec 550 would be more than plenty, but w/o aux. power to the
CPUs, I think my setup may be a bit much for this PSU. Having said that, I
think I'm going to try the 550W sibling of the PSU mentioned in your link
(5V @ 66W) and see what happens. Thanks for the help, Paul.
P.S. I'd already done the molex "mod" to the ATX connector. If I can get a
PSU to boot the box with the 9700 Pro installed, that mod may come in very
handy.
--
Robert J. Salvi, Ambiance Acoustics
http://www.ambianceacoustics.com
San Diego, CA USA
(858) 485-7514
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