40nm RSX Allows for Lightest, Most Efficient PS3

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Ramar

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[citation][nom]Santimun[/nom]More importantly, would we be able to overclock the rsx gpu enough so that the stock heat sink can still provide adequate cooling and we also attain some improved performance? Not so much as making the graphics look better but in other areas like less screen tearing and/or increased frame rates? Or is that more of a RAM issue?[/citation]

That's mostly an issue with people don't know how to code for the PS3.
 

meowkitty77

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[citation][nom]Ramar[/nom]That's mostly an issue with people don't know how to code for the PS3.[/citation]
Its not like parallel programming is hard or anything, bro.
 

bobfrys

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Does this mean they will be giving away the new Ps3 FOR FREE!!!!

Edit: But in all seriousness, that sounds sick, but it doesn't seem like much to the consumer. Who really cares that it weighs .9 pounds less and uses a small amount of electricity less. Will it really effect(or is it affect) the power bill that much?
 
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They forget to mention the RAM is also "upgraded" from 4x 64MB XDR RAM to 2x 128MB XDR RAM, that might also add a small bit of performance. (And a very insignificant decrease in weight.) I'm going to buy one because I'm worried about my 1st gen PS3 60GB dying on me. -_-'
 

nottheking

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[citation][nom]nforce4max[/nom]Who would have thought back in 2005 that the G70 would be alive long enough to go from 110nm down all the way to 40nm. Then again 24 shader, 8 rop, and only 128 bit MCM package. If any thing besides ram that holds the PS3 back its the RSX while it would be nice to have all the SPEs enabled instead of one electrically dead and another reserved for OS[/citation]
Actually, the SPEs it has available for games is readily more than enough; no game can really make use of all that math power for its own core uses, at least with as little instruction power the Cell has to run on: it's a VERY SIMD-heavy chip, with the SPEs designed primarily for streaming media, (read: Blu-ray and other high-def video) rather than gaming. Uncharted 2 managaed to apparently jimmy some use of them to run a little bit of its graphics effects, but such is a pain to program.

The one thing the PS3 has in spades is raw SIMD math power: if you have tons of data, and you need to process it in bulk, then the Cell will chew through that at a rate that keeps pace pretty admirably even with modern CPUs. (and blazes past what was around in 2006) However, the Cell is short on instruction power; only the PPE can fetch instructions; the SPEs have to wait for instructions to be passed down from the PPE to "prime" them before they can get to work. A further bottleneck comes from the fact that the SPE cannot truly address the main memory; they basically have to wait for the PPE to shuffle it over to them. In essence, in every way, the PPE is the chip's bottleneck, as the SPEs keep having to wait for it to give them what they need before they can do anything.

And yes, RAM is another limitation; RAM quantity is a perrenial gripe in consoles; it's always expensive as hell when the console's being made, so makers tend to go conservative on it. (Nintendo moreso than others) Bandwidth is also a concern; cost concerns kept the memory interface to 128 bits; anything more would've required that the CPU/GPU packages pack potentially hundreds of more pins, required that many more traces through the motherboard, possibly requiring more layers, and would've required more RAM chips on the board, all of which would've driven prices up in ways that would not have come down as fast.

All told, the loss of one or two SPEs isn't really much to worry about. The one locked-out in hardware was done for the very valid reason of raising yield rates; originally, the 90nm version had a pretty poor yield level that, while nowhere near as bad as, say, Fermi's, was still pretty unacceptable when you were trying to build a console.

[citation][nom]Ramar[/nom]That's mostly an issue with people don't know how to code for the PS3.[/citation]
No, it's not quite that; the PS3 isn't a magical black box full of fairy dust with arbitrary processing capabilities. It's a computer that uses a very PC-like architectural design at pretty much all levels. So its strengths and weakness are both very real.

Aside from the limitations I described to nforce4max, the whole bit about "coding right" to "get all of the power out of the PS3," it's a matter of working with the rather skewed arrangement of the PS3's abilities. In short, the Cell has only so much instructional capacity to go around, as it can only fetch and begin execution of a single one per clock cycle. Further, a lot of that will have to be eaten up moving data in and out of the CPU for the SPEs to use; thankfully each single move can transfer up to 16,384 bytes, so a single instruction is enough to keep an SPE fed for a while in this regard.

The main limit is dealing with the fact that while the whole chip's SPE arrays, (As in the PS3) can handle an impressive 48 operations per clock cycle, you get all of 1 instruction to do it in. If your program doesn't have constant use for that sort of arrangement, then you aren't going to leave the CPU fully busy. The matter is, at some points a game is GOING to need to use single-data instructions.
 

michaelzehr

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"When powered off, the console still draws 9W"

I assume this is intended to refer to standby power usage. It seemed high so I checked around. A number of blogs that actually measured it report a figure around 1.9. Not sure where 9W comes from.
 

Wheat_Thins

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[citation][nom]michaelzehr[/nom]"When powered off, the console still draws 9W"I assume this is intended to refer to standby power usage. It seemed high so I checked around. A number of blogs that actually measured it report a figure around 1.9. Not sure where 9W comes from.[/citation]

What in the heck would suck down 9W anyways when the system was shut off? The red LED in combination with the front panel?
 

Regulas

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[citation][nom]nukemaster[/nom]I honestly would have kept the old heatsink. You can never over cool it. And then even a dirty heatsink will still have the cooling needed.[/citation]
Agreed and I have been thinking when I should tear my slim apart to give it a good cleaning. My nephew brought his PC over because of lock ups and when we opened it the CPU heatsink was jammed full of dust, basically not working. After a good cleaning, no more lock ups. He knows now.
 
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Nice, now that is what I am talking about. WOw.

Lou
www.anon-vpn.se.tc
 

We can only hope, but since they said they only did it as a way to offset a lower number of games and they took it out once they thought there was enough of a game library to no longer need your old games. A very different approach from PS2's built in PS1.
 

nottheking

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[citation][nom]Gin Fushicho[/nom]So with cost reduction taking place, does this mean we will see backwards compatibility with the PS2 again soon?[/citation]
It WOULD be something that would favor the return of backwards-compatability, but I wouldn't get your hopes up if I were you. Even with the 40nm RSX and 65nm Cell, it's quite possible that the PS3 could still be losing Sony money, or at least, isn't making them much of a margin, compared to the Xbox 360 and Wii, which are making decently large and utterly killer profit margins, respectively.

However, while the overall PS3 might be cheaper to produce as a result of the GSX die shrink, that still leaves in the cost of the EE+GS chip, which, as far as I know, hasn't seen a die shrink since the 90nm version that was packed in the PS2 Slim and the original PS3. By now, that chip would be MORE expensive than either the Cell or RSX, and developing something like a 45nm die shrink (which'd cut its price by 75% or so) would cost even more money.

In all likelihood, since a non-BC PS3 will always cost less to make than a BC-capable PS3, Sony would likely rather either sell the console at a lower price, or keep more profits, than re-add BC as a selling point. Unfortunate, but that's what I'm guessing is the case.
 

tleavit

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I have 3 PS3's now and I don't game. Each 3 are newer versions and each have gotten quieter and quieter (from the monster fan in the fist generation that dominates even a good home theater with its noise and heat). I will probably bu this one as usual to go into the home theater for its noise (even though my current slim never makes a noise now).
 

knowom

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[citation][nom]mister g[/nom]Why would I care how much it weighs when for me a die shrink means better performance, or is this G80-G92 all over again?[/citation] Cheaper lighter slimmer and less power hungry PS3 it's hard to argue against that. It's not always about more raw performance power efficiency is a form of performance as well. G80-G92 die shrinks get a much worse rap than they desire too look at Atom I mean the P3 I mean wait that's the same thing more or less just a lot more power efficient.
 
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It's getting closer and closer to the day I upgrade to one of these new slim PS3s and relegate my old PS3 to becoming a Linux desktop (firmware not updated).
 
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