5k to Spend on Workstation - Looking for Guidance

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di11on

Honorable
Feb 26, 2015
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10,530
Hi folks,
I have €5k to spend on a workstation. Here is some context and background
- I run CPU intensive simulations that usually make good advantage of multiple cores and parallelisation.
- For anyone familiar, I will be running GAMS and CPLEX optimisations on this rig
- I play games and it won't hurt to be able to play on this too. I have an old GTX 960 that I could drop in, if the system permits
- I bought a second hand Dell T5600 and dropped in 2 x E5-2670 that I bought on ebay - so I really like the idea of being able to upgrade the rig in the future when CPU prices come down.

As a baseline for comparison - I have been looking at the following offering from DELL:

DELL Precision Tower 7910 1300W
[strike]2 x E5-2650 v3 (8 cores, 2.6GHz)[/strike]
Edit: 2 x E5-2640 v3 (8 cores, 2.6GHz)
Windows 10 pro
32GB DDR4 (4 x 8GB 2400MHz)
2TB 7.2k SATA HDD
Nvidia NVS 310, 1GB, 2 DP (1 DP to SL-DVI adapter)

Total €4641

Some questions:
- Can I do better for this money with another configuration?
- Will my GTX 960 slot into this system?
- Should I go for a 512MB SSD boot drive card for €546?

Any thoughts, comments?
 
those xeons, it is not a 8 core cpu

this is what those are

https://ark.intel.com/es/products/81705/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2650-v3-25M-Cache-2_30-GHz

it is 10 slow cores with 20 threads, in dual configuration is 20 cores and 40 threads

the gtx should work in that if the psu and the mainboard has the right connectors, whch usually is the case on newer workstations

iirc the nvs is a weak gpu, the gtx should do better if any of those tasks you run happens to ask for cuda cores

the dual hard disks, it is a slow solution, i would add a 240gbs ssd for boot times and for the programs you run the most, perhaps is not important if the machine is turned on all the time but for some this matters

those 32gbs of ram, i think they are ddr3, i would put 64 since ddr3 is disapearing and buy more ram later will be a pita
 
I would suggest something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-6950X 3.0GHz 10-Core Processor ($1563.29 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - A80 128.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($159.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus - X99-DELUXE II ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($393.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 64GB (8 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($670.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - BLACK SERIES 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($116.45 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: NVIDIA - Quadro M4000 8GB Video Card ($790.00 @ Newegg)
Case: Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400S ATX Mid Tower Case ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($103.09 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($132.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $4270.67
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-21 16:00 EDT-0400

Cheaper and better than the Dell.
 
Thanks for the replies folks. I made a typo, it should have been 2xE5-2640 (this is what the quoted price was for - I have updated the op).

My thoughts so far is that I would prefer XEONs and ECC over the i7. I know the performance is probably better for the money but I need the reliability. There is nothing worse than setting off a 12hour run and coming back to see that there is some error.

I like the build myself option - I have done a few in my time. However, this is a system that will be bought for me and I'm not sure this is an option. I did notice however, that the case chosen was 650W - is this sufficient for a 2 CPU build? The DELL has a 1300W PSU.

Thanks again folks - please keep the suggestions coming!
 
According to PcPartpicker the 650Watt part will be fine, but you could upgrade to something with more output easily enough, it's only a 'paper' build, intended to stimulate discussion after all.

Dells have many faults, including cost but they ARE reliable, and their pro support is also excellent, so, much as it irks me to say this: If it's being bought for you by your employer/company and you need that reliability to earn money, there's really no other sensible choice but to purchase something off the shelf with that support and warranty.
I will suggest you try to change the specs slightly as follows:
Dual HDDs running in RAID 1, you know it makes sense to automatically backup your work and projects in a mirrored array like this. 😉
Add a SSD, the Dell option is stupid expensive but if someone else is paying, why not?

And moving my build to use the Xeon 2640 gives: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/coozie7/saved/#view=L8NhMp
Bear in mind, these are UK prices in UK Pounds, not Euro, prices and availability in your country WILL be different.
 


Thanks again - totally understand that your list was for discussion - I would definitely save a chunk building the system myself.

The option on the dell site is for a 512 GB PCI-E SSD boot drive card - with this am I likely to see a performance benefit for applications that write to the disk a lot?

Another question is - for another €500 - would I be better off getting the boot disk card or upgrade the CPUS or get more RAM?
 


di11on,

CPU: As the principle applications are well multi-threaded, the following suggested system is based on two Xeon E5-2640 v4 (10-core @ 2.4/3.4GHz. The v4 version was chosen as has 10 cores instead of 8 and uses DDR4-2133 instead of the 1866 of the v3. The price is very similar - about €30 more.

Motherboard: The motherboard is the excellent Supermicro MBD-X10DAX EATX Dual-CPU LGA2011-3 whichis EATX so as to allow large CPU coolers, can support 3X doulbe height GPU’s, and provides 16 RAM slots.supermicro are server experts and these board are highly configurable and made for continuous, full load operation.

RAM: Given the probability of large datasets there is 64GB of memory configured as 8X 8GB to allow the addition of another 8 module sin future. This provides a symmetrical 32GB @ 4X 8GB for each processor.

GPU: The Quadro NVS series is very strongly a 2D-oriented GPU. The recommended graphics card for this use is a Quadro P4000 8GB which maintains high double precision for simulation, strong OpenGL, and in 3D is as fast as a GTX1070, so gaming will be reasonably good.

Drives: To achieve the very fast disk swaps in simulation use, the OS/Programs drive is a Samsung 960 Evo 500 GB mounted on an adapter having a thermal control solution. The Storage uses a Western Digital Gold 2TB which has 128MB cache instead of the usual 64MB.

Case: The case is chosen to provide high air flow, surplus drive bays, and is rated for quiet operation.

Power supply: The total power draw of the current specification is 478W but the recommended power supply is 750W to accommodate the possibility of additional GPU coprocessors such as NVIDIA Tesla.

Simulation Workstation_22.5.17

CPU: 2X Intel - Xeon E5-2640 V4 2.4GHz 10-Core Processor €1950.70 (€957.85 each @ Mindfactory)

___https://ark.intel.com/products/92984/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2640-v4-25M-Cache-2_40-GHz

CPU Cooler: 2X Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler €175.98 (€87.99 each @ Aquatuning)

Motherboard: Supermicro - MBD-X10DAX EATX Dual-CPU LGA2011-3 Motherboard (€452.53 @ Amazon Deutschland)

___ https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X10DAX.cfm

Memory: Samsung - 64GB (8 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory 550.80(€68.85 each @ Amazon Deutschland)

Drive 1: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (€237.84 @ Mindfactory)

M.2 to PCIe adapter: Aqua Computer kryoM.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 Adapter mit Passivkühler (53223) (€28.00)
https://geizhals.de/aqua-computer-kryom-2-pcie-3-0-x4-adapter-mit-passivkuehler-53223-a1446865.html

Graphics Card: PNY Quadro P4000, 8GB GDDR5, 4x DisplayPort (VCQP4000-PB (€879.00)

Drive 2: Storage: Western Digital - Gold 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€137.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Case: Corsair - Carbide Quiet 600Q ATX Full Tower Case (€133.46 @ Mindfactory)

Power Supply: SeaSonic - 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (€137.84 @ Mindfactory)

Optical Drive: Samsung - SH-224FB/RSMS DVD/CD Writer (€24.28 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro Full - USB 32/64-bit (€100.07 @ Amazon Deutschland)
_________________________________________________________________________________

Total: €4773.39

Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-22 16:19 CEST+0200

Performance in the intended applications should be very good with very high precision and reliability, plus quite operation.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

CAD / 3D Modeling / Graphic Design:

HP z420 (2015) (Rev 5) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.2GHz) / 32GB DDR3 -1866 ECC RAM / Quadro P2000 (4GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) + Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> Creative SB X-Fi Titanium + Logitech z2300 2.1 speakers > 600W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 5920 > CPU= 15129 / 2D= 855 / 3D= 8945 / Mem= 2906 / Disk= 8576] [6.12.16] Single-Thread Mark = 2322 [4.20.17]

Analysis / Simulation / Rendering:

HP z620_1 (2012) (Rev 3) 2X Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 / 3.8GHz) / 64GB DDR3-1600 ECC reg) / Quadro K2200 (4GB) + Tesla M2090 (6GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive (256GB) + Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 (1TB) / Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium PCIe sound card + Logitech z313 2.1 speakers / 800W / Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > > HP 2711x (27" 1980 X 1080)

[ Passmark System Rating= 5675 / CPU= 22625 / 2D= 815 / 3D = 3580 / Mem = 2522 / Disk = 12640 ] 9.25.16 Single Thread Mark = 1903
[ Cinebench R15: CPU = 2209 cb / Single core 130 cb / OpenGL= 119.23 fps / MP Ratio 16.84x] 10.31.16

HP z620_2 (2017) > Xeon E5-1680 v2 (8-core@ 4.1GHz) / 64GB DDR3-1866 ECC Reg / Quadro P2000 5GB / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB + Intel 730 480GB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB / ASUS Essence STX PCIe sound card / 825W PSU / Windows 7 Prof.’l 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440) / Logitech z2300 2.1 Sound

[Passmark Rating = 6166 / CPU rating = 16934 / 2D = 820 / 3D= 8849 / Mem = 2991 / Disk = 13794] 4.24.17 Single Thread Mark = 2252
 
https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.08114

From what I can gather, it seems like linear optimization programs tend to enjoy performance gains from single-threaded performance and offloading to GPUs. And the balance between multi-thread and single-thread is exactly 12 cores. In which case the Dell you looked at won't be a good choice.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2620 V4 2.1GHz 8-Core Processor (£390.90 @ Alza)
CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2620 V4 2.1GHz 8-Core Processor (£390.90 @ Alza)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler (£51.83 @ CCL Computers)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler (£51.83 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: Asus - Z10PE-D16 WS SSI EEB Dual-CPU LGA2011-3 Motherboard (£465.59 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Kingston - 64GB (4 x 16GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory (£499.00 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£83.15 @ Aria PC)
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive (£60.99 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: NVIDIA - Titan Xp 12GB Video Card (£1325.00 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Silverstone - FT04B-W ATX Full Tower Case (£173.86 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - Snow Silent 750W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£175.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Total: £3669.01
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-22 16:53 BST+0100
 


Thanks for this! I am now wondering if I shouldn't seriously consider making a case to build this machine myself... although it is likely that I would need to source the components from a single supplier which might be challenging!

This is interesting - 12 cores being the sweet spot for optimization tasks. However, the CPUs you suggest are also 8 cores like mine - and slower - I'm wondering what the thinking is here? That the money is better spent on other aspects of the system, like GPU?
 


Thanks you so much for this well thought out and nicely presented post. Like in my reply to okcnaline, I'm really wondering how I could put this together myself... I really would get a lot more performance for the same money!
 

di11on,

The way I wanted to specify this system was to base it on one of these:

Supermicro SuperWorkstation 7038A-I > US $773

The Supermicro Superworkstation 7038 provides a case, motherboard, 2 CPU coolers, and 900W power supply. The user need only plug in the CPU's, RAM, GPU, and drives. So many decisions have been made and there is no real assembly or wiring. The motherboard is the same one recommended in the build list and the system is rated to be very quiet.

I looked at several sites for Supermicro distributors in the EU and could not find a source for the 7038. If that model can be found, it would be possible to quite easily assemble the system in an hour.

Also, I would mention that in general assembling a computer today is not so difficult: have a look at some YouTube videos. The power supply has cables that have connectors that only fit to one place on the motherboard and the other parts- the CPU sits in only one way in the socket and is locked down with a couple of levers, add a bit of thermal paste, screw down the CPU coolers, and plug in the fans- quite easy. There is configuration and setup of course. I assembled in effect a new HP z620 in about one hour having a used motherboard and RAM and everything else new. The E5-1680 v2 system listed above cost only about $1,900 and was until last week, the highest rated HP z620 of 330 systems tested on Passmark. The other z620 having two E5-2690's cost only about $1,400 and that has 16 cores running at 2.9 / 3.8GHz plus a 6GB Tesla coprocessor that originally cost $2,400. That system is 100% reliable as have all the used workstations I've had since 2009.

If you're a bit adventurous, very good results can be had by buying a used HP z820 with a low specification and simply changing the CPU's,GPU, adding RAM and drives. If you buy the proper series z820, it can use two Xeon E5-2667 v2 which is 8-core @ 3.3 / 4.0GHz. These sell in the Us for about $800 each and that would be at a higher compute rate and higher single-thread performance than the Xeon E5-2640 v4's. The RAM at 1866 is not very much slower than the 2133.

What country are you in ?

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 


I can change the list so it's from one single seller.

As for the CPU, unless the build costs 1000 GBP more, it doesn't seem like there is anything on the LGA 2011-3 socket clocked higher. :-/
 
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