6-man tablebases with Fritz8

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Hi,

Just downloaded all KRPPKR-files from
ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/42p/

I have all 3-,4- and 5-man bases working fine.

Now I did not succeed with KRPPKR. I Did not find promotion cases for
KQRPKR, this would be also needeed? Can anybody tell if this is
already published and where to get it?

Do I need another promotion cases or is KQRPKR enough? Should I have
KQQRKR also? I did not find that either.

Is there anybody, who can do 6-man tablebases with Fritz8? Can you
give any advise to make it work? I have updated my Fritz8 few monts
ago.

I would appreciate very much your comments on this matter.

Regards,
Tykki
 
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tykitys@hotmail.com (Tykki) wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:

> I have all 3-,4- and 5-man bases working fine.
>
> Now I did not succeed with KRPPKR.

IIRC you need to update your Fritz interface to be able to use the
six man tables.

Unfortunatly ChessBase leaves us stumbling in the dark about the
issues their various updates fix, but check nevertheless if your
version is up-to-date.


--
CeeBee

"Eppur si muove!"
 
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Tykki wrote:

> Is there anybody, who can do 6-man tablebases with Fritz8? Can you
> give any advise to make it work?

Yes -- but I went the ChessBase way and bought the Endgame Turbo 2
DVD. If I recall, it contains updates to Fritz ... and I strongly
suspect those updates are for 6-man endgames.

I have no idea if these updates are available separately.

But even with Fritz 6 it was possible to do 6-man endgame databases
-- you just had to use another engine instead of Fritz. Try
downloading the latest Crafty engine from ChessBase -- I'm fairly
certain that will work.

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
 
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Before I do this how many 6 man tablebases have been done and in total how
much disc space do they take up?
Komputer Korner

"CeeBee" <ceebeechester@start.com.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9653AFCEE18D6ceebeechesterstartco@195.121.6.84...
> Anders Thulin <ath_no_spam_please@algonet.se> wrote in
> rec.games.chess.computer:
>
>
> > I have no idea if these updates are available separately.
>
>
> http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup
> might work.
>
> For the OP: Put this file in the chessprogam8-directory, and
> doubleclick on iupgrade.exe.
>
> --
> CeeBee
>
> "Eppur si muove!"
 
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The way it works is you need all the minor and major piece endgame
tablebases corresponding to that x no. of pieces before you can do any
involving a pawn because the pawn always can promote. Therefore you need
KRNNKR,KRNBKR, KRBBKR,KRNQKR,KRNRKR,KRBRKR,KRRRKR,KRBQKR,KRRQKR, and the
KRQQKR before you can build the KRPPKR tablebase.
Komputer Korner


"Tykki" <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:77966062.0505102359.66e27d92@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> Just downloaded all KRPPKR-files from
> ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/42p/
>
> I have all 3-,4- and 5-man bases working fine.
>
> Now I did not succeed with KRPPKR. I Did not find promotion cases for
> KQRPKR, this would be also needeed? Can anybody tell if this is
> already published and where to get it?
>
> Do I need another promotion cases or is KQRPKR enough? Should I have
> KQQRKR also? I did not find that either.
>
> Is there anybody, who can do 6-man tablebases with Fritz8? Can you
> give any advise to make it work? I have updated my Fritz8 few monts
> ago.
>
> I would appreciate very much your comments on this matter.
>
> Regards,
> Tykki
 
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"Komputer Korner" <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> wrote in
rec.games.chess.computer:

> Before I do this how many 6 man tablebases have been done and in
> total how much disc space do they take up?
> Komputer Korner


Have a look at Hyatt's FTP-site the OP mentioned, and check out the
sizes and names. Guess: about 450 GB until now?

--
CeeBee

"Eppur si muove!"
 
G

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CeeBee wrote:

> http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup
> might work.

The blurb on the DVD package claims it contains an engine
upgrade for Fritz 8, ... but when I actually look it over, the
only obvious engine I find is Tablebase.eng, which the README.TXT
file claims is for ChessBase 8. Ah, the confusion I felt ... it's
all coming back ...

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
 
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Anders Thulin <ath_no_spam_please@algonet.se> wrote in
rec.games.chess.computer:

> The blurb on the DVD package claims it contains an engine
> upgrade for Fritz 8, ... but when I actually look it over, the
> only obvious engine I find is Tablebase.eng, which the README.TXT
> file claims is for ChessBase 8. Ah, the confusion I felt ... it's
> all coming back ...


That's the TB 3.0 engine for reading 6 man in ChessBase 8.

***

I'd wish ChessBase not only took the precious time to develop all
those patches and fixes and updates, and make them available, but
also the even more precious time to tell
- which one contains what;
- for which program it is an update or upgrade;
- where it is available - on their chess server (only), on their
website (only)of on CB Magazine (only);
- what to do if it can't be obtained by either way.

I find ChessBase software excellent, but I'm getting a bit tired of
the logical stream of posts asking about a forest full of unknown
versions, misty update requirements, failed upgrades and where, when
how and why.

I wonder if it's really that difficult - trying to prevent
unnecessary support questions by giving your customers the
information to handle things themselves.



--
CeeBee

"Eppur si muove!"
 
G

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Hi,

I checked my tablebases with program Wilhelm
(www.geocities.com/rba_schach2000) and I notised that I'm missing all
41 and 41p tablebases.

I downloaded missing ones (ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/) and
updated GUI8.iup (http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup) to
Fritz8.

Now it works fine! Fritz8 doesn't need the promotion tables. I think
it needs all 5-man tables to work with 6-man tables (?). At least
KRPPKR is running now fine without any other 6-man bases.

Thank you all for your help!

Regards,
Tykki
 
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tykitys@hotmail.com (Tykki) wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:


> Now it works fine! Fritz8 doesn't need the promotion tables. I
> think it needs all 5-man tables to work with 6-man tables (?).

I'm no expert on tablebases, but I don't think you need them to make
a "higher" TB run. You will no doubt get incorrect DTM results from
an x-man tablebase when (all or some of) the x-1 is/are missing.

The GUI update however was necessary. Without it the 6 man won't
run.

--
CeeBee

"Eppur si muove!"
 
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"Tykki" <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:77966062.0505131100.eaf40f6@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I checked my tablebases with program Wilhelm
> (www.geocities.com/rba_schach2000) and I notised that I'm missing all
> 41 and 41p tablebases.
>
> I downloaded missing ones (ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/) and
> updated GUI8.iup (http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup) to
> Fritz8.
>
> Now it works fine! Fritz8 doesn't need the promotion tables. I think
> it needs all 5-man tables to work with 6-man tables (?). At least
> KRPPKR is running now fine without any other 6-man bases.
>
> Thank you all for your help!
>
> Regards,
> Tykki

How will the KRPPKR know what to do when a pawn promotes? When I build the 5
man tablebases, the Chessbase generator always reports whether the non pawn
tablebases have been built and if not it builds those first.

Komputer Korner
 
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I must add few words to clarify that actually I'm not trying to make
new tablebases but I'm trying to use those ones that already exist.

Regards,
Tykki
 
G

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"Komputer Korner" <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> skrev i melding
news:nv6dnQaI_O246B_fRVn-uw@rogers.com...
> Before I do this how many 6 man tablebases have been done and in total how
> much disc space do they take up?
> Komputer Korner

I have missed your postings ever since you left rgcc a few years back - I'm
very pleased to see that you are still alive and (hopefully) will continue
to share
your knowledge in this group. Welcome back!

A few words about Chesslib's ftp-server, hosting the 3-, 4- and 5-man
Nalimov table bases:

It is probably the fastest available download site for these files - even to
Canada and US. To Europe and the rest of world - now doubt,
absolutely the fastest available!

I'm currently working on a little project: Make it possible to map the
ptp-servers 3-, 4- 5- and 6-man tables as a drive - in other words, you can
use the end game bases as they where installed on your own computer.
(without having to download the huge files).

-af-
 
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* Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> (06:57) schrieb:

> How will the KRPPKR know what to do when a pawn promotes? When I build the 5
> man tablebases, the Chessbase generator always reports whether the non pawn
> tablebases have been built and if not it builds those first.

Nalimov-Tables are about positions, they never know what to do. When you
promote a pawn the position no longer is in KRPPKR, but in KRQPKR or
elsewhere.

Whenever the generator has to compute the value of position, where there
is a pawn ready to promote it has to look a the tablebase containing
the resulting position.

mfg, simon .... please correct me
 
G

Guest

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Well that means that before you can use the KRPPKR tablebase, you need to
have the subordinate pawnless tablebases already done so that when you are
promoting a pawn in the KRPPKR base, the program will know to look up the
appropriate subordinate tablebase. A previous poster said he was using the
KRPPKR tablebase without having the subordinate KRQQKR,KRQRKR...etc
tablebases I don't see how that is possible.
"Simon Krahnke" <overlord@gmx.li> wrote in message
news:87psvtgw98.fsf@xts.gnuu.de...
> * Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> (06:57) schrieb:
>
> > How will the KRPPKR know what to do when a pawn promotes? When I build
the 5
> > man tablebases, the Chessbase generator always reports whether the non
pawn
> > tablebases have been built and if not it builds those first.
>
> Nalimov-Tables are about positions, they never know what to do. When you
> promote a pawn the position no longer is in KRPPKR, but in KRQPKR or
> elsewhere.
>
> Whenever the generator has to compute the value of position, where there
> is a pawn ready to promote it has to look a the tablebase containing
> the resulting position.
>
> mfg, simon .... please correct me
 
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* Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> (20:34) schrieb:

> Well that means that before you can use the KRPPKR tablebase, you need to
> have the subordinate pawnless tablebases already done so that when you are
> promoting a pawn in the KRPPKR base, the program will know to look up the
> appropriate subordinate tablebase. A previous poster said he was using the
> KRPPKR tablebase without having the subordinate KRQQKR,KRQRKR...etc
> tablebases I don't see how that is possible.

No, I was explaining the *generator*. You can *use* any tablebase on its
own. Only when the promotion is actually done, you need the other
tablebase. When that tablebase is missing, the engine has to search. But
could use the knowledge from the tablebase as a hint for the search.

mfg, simon .... l
 
G

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Well, Fritz8 can read from the tablebase that the position is f.e. a
mate in 46 moves. When the promotion comes, it starts thinking again.
It is not a problem, because Fritz8 can easily count the position with
such a big advantage.

Regards,
Tykki
 
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Tykki <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, Fritz8 can read from the tablebase that the position is f.e. a
> mate in 46 moves. When the promotion comes, it starts thinking again.
> It is not a problem, because Fritz8 can easily count the position with
> such a big advantage.

Not necessarily. Somebody posted here in the last few months or so that
Fritz is unable to win KNB vs K without tablebases.

(Anyone who feels the need to express their outrage at this should consult
the earlier thread; the executive summary is that the engine is designed
to work with the tablebases so there's no point including lots of special-
case code as that just increases the bug-count and reduces performance.)


Dave.

--
David Richerby Evil Old-Fashioned Beer (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a refreshing lager but it's
perfect for your grandparents and
genuinely evil!
 
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* David Richerby <davidr@chiark.greenend.org.uk> (19:29) schrieb:

> Tykki <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, Fritz8 can read from the tablebase that the position is f.e. a
>> mate in 46 moves. When the promotion comes, it starts thinking again.
>> It is not a problem, because Fritz8 can easily count the position with
>> such a big advantage.
>
> Not necessarily. Somebody posted here in the last few months or so that
> Fritz is unable to win KNB vs K without tablebases.

Wasn't that about Deep Fritz?

I'm trying Shredder 7 at Fine#4 (6k1/5N2/5K2/8/8/3B4/8/8 w - - 0 1),
which is supposed to be a mate in 19. Shredder 7 comes with tablebases
but I disabled them. At depth 25 it's still lost. With tablebases
enabled it instantly says Bf5.

Some other engines prefer the right move even without tablebases.
Including Fritz 7.

mfg, simon .... l
 
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