[SOLVED] 8 RAM sticks with a dual channel CPU??

[cbates]

Hi all,

I'm looking at upgrade options for my PC and I'm wondering whether a RAM upgrade will be of any benefit to me. At the moment, I currently have;

Ryzen 5900x CPU
4x8GB G Skill Trident Neo 3600Mhz CL14 RAM
MSI X570 Gaming Plus Motherboard
RTX 3080

What I'm thinking of doing is upgrading the motherboard to one which has 8 slots for DDR4 RAM and then doubling the RAM I have with the exact same sticks and specs. The idea is that the additional RAM will provide an increased performance when gaming but I have a few questions based on whether this is a logical idea.

1. Can the Ryzen 5900x CPU (which only supports dual channel mode) utilise 8 sticks of RAM?
2. If it can, what benefit could be gained from this? Can a single application such as a game use more than 2 sticks of RAM at once even when the CPU is limited to dual channel mode?

Thanks in advance!

 

[kerberos_20]

hi for dual channel ram for best performance:
4x single sided sticks or 2x dual sided stick
this will get advantage of memory interleaving which is what youre refering to in you 2nd question

as far as ryzen 5900x goes, it does not support 8 ram modules, AM4 mainboards have only up to 4 ram slots
for 8 slots you will need different platform, TR4 (old) or sTR4 (new) for threadripper CPU which have 4 channel memory controller

 

[lvt]

64GB just for gaming?

 

[USAFRet]

increased performance when gaming

Unless you are actually running out of RAM, more does not = better.

What do you have now, 32GB?
Unless you are actually maxing that out....this is not an issue.

 

[cbates]

You might've guessed from the original post but it's not something I'm too experienced in... I moved over to PC from console a few months ago so there's still a lot to learn

I get that 64 GB is excessive for the vast majority of users (gamers and non-gamers) but from what I've read the advantage isn't as much in the total memory as it is in the additional RAM modules - from a non-experienced perspective it seems that this could allow for one application such as a game to use what it can and then allow additional apps to use whatever is left in terms of RAM modules (correct me if that's just a crazy idea)

I can't imagine that jumping up in price to a threadripper would provide that much of a noticeable difference but is there any idea what performance boost it could give? With and without the increase in RAM. Or even how much of a performance boost could be gained from increasing the 4x8GB to 4x16GB?

I've also seen the Ryzen 6000 series isn't too far away, are these likely to support 8 RAM modules?

 

[USAFRet]

RAM is like a bucket.

If you're only using 3 gallons, having a 64 gallon bucket vs a 32 gallon bucket is just wasted money.
In fact, more RAM modules may (very very slightly) inhibit performance. The system has to talk to more modules at the same time.

The reason motherboards are made with 8 slots is due to the max size of RAM sticks at that time.

If a database server needs 128GB RAM...there aren't (or weren't) 32GB RAM sticks at that time. So, 8 slots of 16GB.

 

[cbates]

Simple explanation but it makes sense. To be honest it's not as if I'm too restricted by the build I have so I'm not desperate for an upgrade at all. Although with all that, what do you think is the component most likely to be holding me back from even better performance? Given what has been said here I'd be thinking the GPU?

 

[kerberos_20]

Simple explanation but it makes sense. To be honest it's not as if I'm too restricted by the build I have so I'm not desperate for an upgrade at all. Although with all that, what do you think is the component most likely to be holding me back from even better performance? Given what has been said here I'd be thinking the GPU?

games doesnt use ram that much, they do few reads here and there, almost no writes, there might be some bandwith strain on multiple cores, but you usualy dont get that with just gaming, if you run low on available ram, then bumping ram capacity can help, otherwise no perfomance difference

 

[USAFRet]

Simple explanation but it makes sense. To be honest it's not as if I'm too restricted by the build I have so I'm not desperate for an upgrade at all. Although with all that, what do you think is the component most likely to be holding me back from even better performance? Given what has been said here I'd be thinking the GPU?

In what way do you perceive the system is lacking in performance?

Those are all top end parts.

 

[Zerk2012]

You might've guessed from the original post but it's not something I'm too experienced in... I moved over to PC from console a few months ago so there's still a lot to learn

I get that 64 GB is excessive for the vast majority of users (gamers and non-gamers) but from what I've read the advantage isn't as much in the total memory as it is in the additional RAM modules - from a non-experienced perspective it seems that this could allow for one application such as a game to use what it can and then allow additional apps to use whatever is left in terms of RAM modules (correct me if that's just a crazy idea)

I can't imagine that jumping up in price to a threadripper would provide that much of a noticeable difference but is there any idea what performance boost it could give? With and without the increase in RAM. Or even how much of a performance boost could be gained from increasing the 4x8GB to 4x16GB?

I've also seen the Ryzen 6000 series isn't too far away, are these likely to support 8 RAM modules?

To answer your questions.
No
No
Threadripper will hurt your performance as it's slower than a 5900X EDIT it would let you use more memory sticks but the overall performance would still be less.
and No

To use the term that should never be used Bottleneck this is just a reference to the slowest part of the PC doing the task at hand and it can change to a different part doing a different task.

Using a 5900X with 32GB of 3600 cas 14 memory, and a RTX 3080 your performance should be really good even gaming with background programs open.

 

[mamasan2000]

You might've guessed from the original post but it's not something I'm too experienced in... I moved over to PC from console a few months ago so there's still a lot to learn

I get that 64 GB is excessive for the vast majority of users (gamers and non-gamers) but from what I've read the advantage isn't as much in the total memory as it is in the additional RAM modules - from a non-experienced perspective it seems that this could allow for one application such as a game to use what it can and then allow additional apps to use whatever is left in terms of RAM modules (correct me if that's just a crazy idea)

I can't imagine that jumping up in price to a threadripper would provide that much of a noticeable difference but is there any idea what performance boost it could give? With and without the increase in RAM. Or even how much of a performance boost could be gained from increasing the 4x8GB to 4x16GB?

I've also seen the Ryzen 6000 series isn't too far away, are these likely to support 8 RAM modules?

Threadripper 3990X vs your 5900X...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-threadripper-3990x-review/4 Pay attention to 9900k, it's on par with 3990X in games.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ItXyLdNGc
9900k gets beaten by 5900X.
Threadripper has lower clocks, worse for games. It's not made for games.

More RAM does not equate to better performance. Lower timings on RAM sticks does. I guess you have B-die. CL14 @ 3600 Mhz. I don't know of better RAM with lower timings.

 

[cbates]

In what way do you perceive the system is lacking in performance?

I don't consider it "lacking" in performance at all, just curious of my upgrade options in the future as a "performance greedy gamer" (not sure how else to word it!)

Threadripper will hurt your performance as it's slower than a 5900X

Threadripper has lower clocks, worse for games. It's not made for games.

I appreciate the advice on the threadripper, with this and the video I wouldn't even consider it now - especially with the insane price jump!

B-die. CL14 @ 3600 Mhz

Exactly that. As mentioned I'm just really curious about upgrade options and (from a non-experienced perspective) a few quick reads online suggested additional modules could improve performance. I understand now that would likely just be for lower spec hardware that's perhaps at a lower clock speed or memory capacity overall.

 

[USAFRet]

I don't consider it "lacking" in performance at all, just curious of my upgrade options in the future as a "performance greedy gamer" (not sure how else to word it!)

CPU/GPU/RAM...all at the top end of what is currently available.

With those parts, there is no real upgrade. No reason to change anything.
And going to a motherboard/CPU that can take 8 RAM slots may reduce your game performance.

 

[Zerk2012]

I don't consider it "lacking" in performance at all, just curious of my upgrade options in the future as a "performance greedy gamer" (not sure how else to word it!)



I appreciate the advice on the threadripper, with this and the video I wouldn't even consider it now - especially with the insane price jump!


Exactly that. As mentioned I'm just really curious about upgrade options and (from a non-experienced perspective) a few quick reads online suggested additional modules could improve performance. I understand now that would likely just be for lower spec hardware that's perhaps at a lower clock speed or memory capacity overall.

The future has nothing to do at all with PC parts that are currently out. Next year they will be faster parts with more performance so you can always chase the rainbow at a very high expense.

Your current setup should last you 4, 5, years or so with a video card upgrade in the middle of that time unless you start gaming at like a 4K resolution then a better video card would help.

If you just must get better performance out of what you have (you never listed the monitor used) in general you would overclock the CPU but with those chips their not much left so you would not really gain that much unless you think going from say 120FPS in a certain game to 130 FPS is really a difference.

 

[cbates]

CPU/GPU/RAM...all at the top end of what is currently available.

With those parts, there is no real upgrade. No reason to change anything.

Your current setup should last you 4, 5, years or so with a video card upgrade in the middle of that time unless you start gaming at like a 4K resolution then a better video card would help.

That was my intention when building the PC I have, to not have to touch anything for a few years but once it's sitting there the temptation to look at upgrades is just building. I appreciate there's absolutely no need for an upgrade but I just couldn't help wondering where it could be improved.

In the near future I may consider an upgrade to a 4k or ultrawide monitor but considering I usually play online/multiplayer/competitive games I don't think the graphics to performance difference is worth it - at the moment I use a 2560x1440p monitor which I consider a sweet spot for both graphics and performance

I've overclocked the CPU to 4.5GHz (from the base 3.7) and it seems stable for the past couple of weeks. GPU is also overclocked to +100Mhz core clock and +1000Mhz memory clock, still testing this as it's only been overclocked for a few days

 

[Zerk2012]

For a gaming PC I would put this up against anything you can buy even if you spent 3X as much and about match your performance it would be so close you would say WTF. Figured about the not scalped price of the video card more like if you won the Shuffle.

PC gaming you get to a point where you can spend 2, 3K more and get almost no performance gain. Their a sweet spot on parts and spending more is really just spending money for nothing that matters.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | Intel Core i7-11700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor | $389.99 @ Newegg
CPU Cooler | Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX 75 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler | $174.99 @ Newegg
Motherboard | Gigabyte Z590 AORUS PRO AX ATX LGA1200 Motherboard | $259.99 @ Amazon
Memory | G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL14 Memory | $299.99 @ Newegg
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | $94.99 @ Adorama
Storage | Samsung 870 Evo 2 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive | $249.99 @ B&H
Video Card | MSI GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB GAMING X TRIO Video Card | $1200.00
Power Supply | Corsair RMx (2021) 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | $189.99 @ Best Buy
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | $2859.93
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-07-09 19:02 EDT-0400 |

EDIT and yes I have nothing against buying 32GB of memory since a few games can use around 12 or so( including the OS that must be running) then you add a few monitoring programs, discord or whatever, and you still have NO memory problems.

That is using all quality parts left the case off since everybody likes different looks.

 

[cbates]

So first of all I'm in the UK, I've changed the price using Google's currency convertor so it may be a little off realistically as well as regionally.

CPU | Ryzen 5900x
CPU Cooler | NZXT X73
Motherboard | MSI X570 Gaming Plus
Memory | G Skill Trident Neo 3600Mhz CL14 4x8GB
Storage | Western Digital SN750 1TB
Storage | Western Digital SN750 500 GB
Video Card | MSI GeForce Suprim X 10GB RTX 3080
Power Supply | Corsair 850W Modular

+ Case (Lian Li PC-011)+ 6 additional fans + RGB power cables and a few extras

All in (including build + warranty) = ~$3800

Given it was pre-built with warranty and sourcing an RTX 3080 when it wasn't available at all, I'm still happy with the price all in. Could have searched and built it personally to make it even cheaper but given it was a first build I just wanted it quick and built properly! Going forward I'd upgrade/build it myself.

Quick question from inexperience, is there much difference between 2x16GB and 4x8GB RAM? And what tool would you use to compare the two builds?

 

[USAFRet]

There is nothing on that system you need to change, until it no longer does what you need.

Seeing as those are all top end parts, there is no more 'up'.

 

[JWNoctis]

Like kerberos_20 said in the first reply, having either two sticks of dual-rank memory, or all four slots filled, might improve performance a bit over just two sticks of single-rank memory, even when both setups are dual-channel.

And you already have that.

Popular tools for benchmarks and comparison of those kinds included AIDA64, and SiSoftware Sandra.

And I concur that any realistically cost-effective upgrade options won't be there for still a few years to come. Enjoy your build as it is.

 

[TomKraven]

The only thing you could change on that rig is getting a 3080ti or a 3090. That's basically it. But you are monitor bottlenecked. You either play on a TV at 60hz (where your current GPU performs perfectly) or you get a super expensive 4k high refresh rate monitor and get a new gpu.

Tbh, what are you chasing after? Just watching high numbers in the FPS counter?

 

[cbates]

Thanks all, really appreciate the support

Just watching high numbers in the FPS counter?

Pretty much which I know is pointless when I run a 144Hz monitor and get over that anyway, I just like to know where my limitations are in general.

 

[mikewinddale]

As far as I know, there are no Ryzen/AM4 boards with 8 RAM slots anyway. To get 8 RAM slots, you need ThreadRipper.

And even if there were an AM4 board with 8 slots, you'd still get only dual-channel, so there wouldn't be any benefit anyway, except from higher potential memory capacity.

Now, theoretically, a ThreadRipper could be faster than a Ryzen because it has quad-channel memory instead of dual-channel. So twice the memory bandwidth.

But the ThreadRipper is still on the Ryzen 3000 generation, whereas the Ryzen is on the 5000 generation. The 5000 generation has improved IPC (instructions per clock) compared to the 3000. So going from Ryzen 5000 to ThreadRipper 3000 is like going from Ryzen 5000 to Ryzen 3000.

Most applications can't take advantage of all that extra memory bandwidth, so the downgrade in IPC from going from Ryzen 5000 to 3000 costs more than any benefit from increased memory bandwidth.