News 8GB Apple M3 MacBook Pro Crushed by 16GB Config in CPU Benchmarks

bit_user

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Thank you! It's nice to see some real data behind these claims!

This is exactly what I was talking about, in the last article's comment thread about 8 GB vs. 16 GB - rate of turnover & general memory-intensiveness matters!

If you run a benchmark that really uses more than probably about 6 GB, then performance will obviously be worse because the CPU is having to bring in tons of pages, compress them, and write them back out. With enough pressure, it will start swapping, which is even worse.

The main case for memory compression is when you have large amounts of stuff in RAM that's pretty much just sitting there, like my example of having many browser tabs open. For the typical Mom & Pop, or little Timmy's computer for school work that he's definitely not supposed to be gaming on, this is fine. Another good case for it is probably compressing your disk cache.

TL;DR: memory compression does have a place in the computing landscape. It's just not a magic bullet. There's no substitute for knowing where it does & doesn't make sense.
 
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JamesJones44

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No surprise there. A base macOS OS on fresh load is usually around 4 GB used, yes you can tweak this just like on Windows to be around 1 GB, but 99% of users are not going to do that. That doesn't leave a lot of head room for applications, especially when applications Safari or Chrome can be as much as 1 GB for a single tab.

Add that the CPU and GPU share that ram and 8 GB of RAM largely relegates the device to web browsing only for the average user.
 
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bit_user

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No surprise there. A base macOS OS on fresh load is usually around 4 GB used,
Well, if you just have a little memory pressure, I'm sure most of that will get swapped out. There's no way it should need 4 GB resident.

Add that the CPU and GPU share that ram and 8 GB of RAM
Yes, good point.

largely relegates the device to web browsing only for the average user.
Some office/productivity apps and media consumption, too.
 

1991ATServerTower

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Some office/productivity apps and media consumption, too.
So, the same things my 14" 1080p Intel i3-1215 based Lenovo Thinkpad Chromebook with 4GB RAM excels at, for $300 USD to the door.

The screen is bright, colorful, and has good angles. The speakers are great. YouTube and image heavy sites like Amazon and Pintrest load and scroll smoothly. Google and Microsoft docs run quickly. Honestly, it's an amazingly smooth and enjoyable basic computing experience.

For $300 USD.

Why should anyone spend $1600 for essentially the same experience? The Apple screen or chassis isn't that much better.

Ps. My wife and I bought 2 of these Lenovo Thinkpad Chromebook c14 gen1 last Jan. I gave mine to our daughter for highschool / University, only because I was disappointed by the build quality. Otherwise, it's truly ideal for all the things I do on a laptop. My daughter loves watching Netflix and doing homework on hers and my wife loves doing her online shopping and research on hers. Load times are so fast as to never feel slow and 4GB hasn't bothered them in their "normal person" use cases.

8 or 4 GB are fine, if the computer is cheap and meets the users needs.
 
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bit_user

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So, the same things my 14" 1080p Intel i3-1215 based Lenovo Thinkpad Chromebook with 4GB RAM excels at, for $300 USD to the door.
Can it play AV1 video at 1080p30 or better? How loud does its fan run, when it does? What about battery life?

Why should anyone spend $1600 for essentially the same experience? The Apple screen or chassis isn't that much better.
Maybe because they have better things to do than sit around and wait for their code to compile?

Some other benefits:
  • 22-hour battery life (during video playback; 15 hours of web browsing)
  • 120 Hz 10-bit XDR display w/ 10k mini-LED backlight
  • x3 microphone array
  • x6 speaker array
  • 2x Thunderbolt-3/USB4 ports
  • HDMI: up to 6k @ 60Hz or 4k @ 120 Hz
  • Wifi 6E (802.11ax)
  • Bluetooth 5.3

Of course, if your old i3 meets all your needs, by all means keep using it! However, don't pretend nobody needs or wants features and capabilities you don't. For someone on video calls all day, that battery life might be a big deal!
 

bit_user

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A "pro" machine (with a price to match) that's designed to never support pro workloads.
Yeah, it's a dumb branding decision ever to call something "Pro" that's not truly aimed at the professional market.

let's not forget the single external display, no expansion ports...
It has 1x HDMI + 2xThunderbolt/USB4 ports capable of 40 Gbps. However, they do restrict DisplayPort over USB to machines having the M3 Pro SoC - maybe the base SoC has just one display engine.

How are people insane enough to pay $1400 to have the usability of a Chromebook????
Because it's like 10x faster than a Chromebook and maybe they don't need more expansion options than it has.
 

hushnecampus

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Yep, I think we all know that Apple’s claims were embarrassing nonsense, but these tests don’t really prove it. We need to see the 8GB Mac compared with a similarly priced 16GB Windows machine.
 

KyaraM

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Got a mini PC with monitor and wireless mouse/keyboard for 400€ all together recently. Taxes and stuff all included already, of course. Got a Ryzen 7 from 2021 in it, 500GB M.2 gen 3 storage with the option to also plug in an internal SATA SSD (can upgrade both to 2+2TB maximum), and 16 GB dual channel RAM (max 64GB). Fans only are audible running at 100%, which they do at 81°C, a temperature I only reach in benchmarks or games and which can be lowered with an external fan. Everything except the CPU can be rather easily upgraded, too, the machine is build to make disassembly rather easy. Only thing it doesn't have is a battery, but external ones can be had for around 70€ and then you are still at less than 1/3rd of the cost. heck, I can even increase the (already higher than official) TDP of this thing if needed, as long as long as I stay within 65W total system power. The BIOS has many, many options to play with.

With the powerbank I got, it should run for a couple hours at least unless I get stupid and game on it. It's also portable enough considering that I don't plan to do extensive use sessions in places where there is no electricity available. Plus, at least in Cinebench R24, it comes rather close to that M3 multi-core performance thanks to having 8c/16 threads. Also comes with WiFi6. Are there downsides? Sure. But it's still a hundred times better than 8GB RAM.

Can it play AV1 video at 1080p30 or better? How loud does its fan run, when it does? What about battery life?


Maybe because they have better things to do than sit around and wait for their code to compile?

Some other benefits:
  • 22-hour battery life (during video playback; 15 hours of web browsing)
  • 120 Hz 10-bit XDR display w/ 10k mini-LED backlight
  • x3 microphone array
  • x6 speaker array
  • 2x Thunderbolt-3/USB4 ports
  • HDMI: up to 6k @ 60Hz or 4k @ 120 Hz
  • Wifi 6E (802.11ax)
  • Bluetooth 5.3

Of course, if your old i3 meets all your needs, by all means keep using it! However, don't pretend nobody needs or wants features and capabilities you don't. For someone on video calls all day, that battery life might be a big deal!
First of, I wouldn't call a 12th gen i3 old, but that's admittedly nit-picking.

Second, who in their right mind does video calls in places where they don't have access to the general power network? That implies a public space. If you are dumb enough to do workrelated video calls in such a public space, please get another job. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to this due to the yearly cyber security trainings I'm required to do for my job, but this sounds incredibly unsafe to do for working.

Next, benchmarks are well and good, but what about actual real life performance? Does the machine have decent cooling, or does it run very hot? Does it throttle? Iirc, the M2 series had quite bad throttling issues and as stated in the article, 8GB of RAM are a pretty big roadblock.

Also, if you buy a laptop with just 8GB RAM for anything even approaching a professional workload, you are doing something fundamentally wrong. Same goes for buying a 1600$, non-upgradeable laptop in general for anything below that. This thing is just a waste of money and people would be better off with a Windows maschine of half the price.
 

bit_user

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First of, I wouldn't call a 12th gen i3 old, but that's admittedly nit-picking.
Huh. Well, if the poster meant i3-1215U, then yes. Without the "U", I interpreted it as a Westmere-generation part. However, it looks like those are all just 3-digit model numbers and Sandybridge went straight to the 2000's series. So, maybe there never were 1000-series parts.

Second, who in their right mind does video calls in places where they don't have access to the general power network?
Airports, coffee shops, but even around the home or office - people will flee from noise or seek more privacy, often leaving their A/C plug behind. It's not too uncommon that someone in one of my calls or meetings will have to go and get their charger or move to where they can plug in, due to low battery.

That implies a public space. If you are dumb enough to do workrelated video calls in such a public space, please get another job.
Executives who do a lot of work-related travel don't really have an option but to join work calls on the go. It's not as if they don't at least use headphones.

Video calls aren't always work-related, either. Did you never video conference with friends or family members? People can even do remote doctor visits.

Also, if you buy a laptop with just 8GB RAM for anything even approaching a professional workload, you are doing something fundamentally wrong.
Not all professionals have the same needs. At my job, they have different machine specs for different types of jobs. The "field laptop" spec is fine for doing video conferencing, email, MS Office, web, etc. but you wouldn't want to do heavy-duty development on it.

If we're talking Windows, then I'd agree that 8 GB isn't a good choice for that, especially with all the security software they load onto these machines.

Same goes for buying a 1600$, non-upgradeable laptop in general for anything below that.
At my job, we never upgrade laptops. They're leased for 3 years, and then you get a new one. If guess, if your needs exceeded your current spec, then you'd turn it in early and either get a refresh or move up a tier.
 

KyaraM

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Huh. Well, if the poster meant i3-1215U, then yes. Without the "U", I interpreted it as a Westmere-generation part. However, it looks like those are all just 3-digit model numbers and Sandybridge went straight to the 2000's series. So, maybe there never were 1000-series parts.


Airports, coffee shops, but even around the home or office - people will flee from noise or seek more privacy, often leaving their A/C plug behind. It's not too uncommon that someone in one of my calls or meetings will have to go and get their charger or move to where they can plug in, due to low battery.


Executives who do a lot of work-related travel don't really have an option but to join work calls on the go. It's not as if they don't at least use headphones.

Video calls aren't always work-related, either. Did you never video conference with friends or family members? People can even do remote doctor visits.


Not all professionals have the same needs. At my job, they have different machine specs for different types of jobs. The "field laptop" spec is fine for doing video conferencing, email, MS Office, web, etc. but you wouldn't want to do heavy-duty development on it.

If we're talking Windows, then I'd agree that 8 GB isn't a good choice for that, especially with all the security software they load onto these machines.


At my job, we never upgrade laptops. They're leased for 3 years, and then you get a new one. If guess, if your needs exceeded your current spec, then you'd turn it in early and either get a refresh or move up a tier.
As far as I know, there indeed never was a Core 1000 series of chips; as you said, the first Core generation had 3-digit numbers, then it went straight to Core 2000 with the second. In any case, since the poster said they bought two last January, I honestly didn't even consider that generation; I sure hope there are none of them on the market today anymore! Especially not in new machines...

But yeah, I have seen that chip on websites like notebookcheck fairly recently while researching the 5700U in my mini. They are somewhat comparable and the i3 popped up in the comparisons a couple times. So I was already familiar with the CPU in question.

Eh, airports usually have access to the regular power network. Flew to London and back just three weeks ago, both Heathrow and Fraport have easy access and often even business lounges for more privacy. Coffee shops, maybe, but I wouldn't want to do a voice call there. It doesn't matter if you wear headphones, btw; the stuff you say can give away quite a lot, too, even if you are careful.

I sometimes video call with friends, yes, but always either at home, or when I'm at my parent's. Again, I value privacy so I don't do any unnecessary calls. Besides, my phone is always with me; we talk via Discord normally, so it's no problem to use it on my phone. Maybe WhatsApp in rare cases. Never had a voice or video call with my family, that's phone only. Also, am I really so pampered by my workplace and home with power sockets readily available anywhere? xD
No idea if that's different in the US, but where I live there really is no need to sit someplace without a socket.

And yes, people have different needs, correct. But why the heck does your workplace give you a $1600 machine when all you do is office and video calls? A regular laptop would do. And that is kinda my point. With a chip like that, I would expect you do fairly heavy workloads; which you can't do because of the lacking RAM. My problem simply is that I don't see who would ever need this thing when a cheaper option would suffice. And let's say the company in question has a contract with Apple or really like the Apple esthetic that much, well, they, too, have cheaper options that would be more than enough for the workload. Even with things like amortization and possibly tax magic considered, it just doesn't feel like an economical or sensible option to me...
 

Order 66

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Of course, if your old i3 meets all your needs, by all means keep using it! However, don't pretend nobody needs or wants features and capabilities you don't. For someone on video calls all day, that battery life might be a big deal!
It's not old, it is referring to the i3 1215u it is a 6-core 8-thread hybrid intel chip. It cam out in 2022. On the topic at hand, I definitely agree that 8GB is not anywhere near enough, even browsing the web, I'll have some tabs that use more than 1 GB of RAM.
 

bit_user

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why the heck does your workplace give you a $1600 machine when all you do is office and video calls? A regular laptop would do.
If I exclude the models current on clearance sale, the cheapest Dell Precision laptop I can spec out on dell.com is on sale for $1339 (list price: $2076). That includes 8 GB of memory and a 256 GB SSD. Its CPU is i5-1335U, which has 2+8 cores / 12 threads.