Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)
"Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:m%mRe.4645$_84.493@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>I don't have the tech reasons for the questions you ask. I'm too much of a
> practician to take the time to investigate. I just know that 2X and 4X
> works, and over the long haul, higher doesn't work, IF your goal is for
> the
> disks to be playable in a maximum number of customers' machines.
>
>> I'm not sure about what you said about higher bite rates being more
> densely
>> packed?
>
> OK, maybe I said that wrong. But you're right - - a higher bit-rate will
> overload the input buffer on some cheaper and some older players. Usually
> it just gets progressively worse, and then freezes.
>
>
>> I also want to ask, do you verify the data directly after the dvd has
>> been
>> burned? I know this slows things down somewhat . . .
>
> No, I just burn at 2X, and enjoy life. It's not scientific, but I don't
> trust teh error-detection on a computer to find an error it made. If it's
> important enough of a project, I do try it on each of a bank of players to
> make sure it will work on a wide variety of players.
>
> That's my process. And it works for me . . . and my customers.
>
> Steve
>
>
Hey Steve,
That stepping progression Z-CLV allows for faster than 16x and can cause
data problems when the motor changes speeds, CAV..Constant is better to use.
When I tested a batch of Verbatim dvd's recently I noticed they burned in
Z-CLV mode, and the graph during tests looks like steps.
I burn at 16x with the TY02 dvd's at CAV, so no interuptions at all to data
stream to mess up the dvd player, the tests show a curve of data increase.
I prefer than mode. Maybe the dvd's you tried at 8x and 16x used Z-CLV mode?
It's likely that or bad dye and burn errors.
When checking a few dvd burn quality test discs a while back I noticed
different brands burned in a different mode on the same machine.
I thought that odd, I thought it was machine dependant not disc, but it did.
Anyway, as the disc spins at a constant speed the inner part will part will
hold less info than the outer parts so burn speed needs to be slower
in the inner part and faster in the outerpart, that's if disc speed is
constant, that's one burn method, the other is when the disc speed itself
starts to speed
up while it gets further in the dvd, that's what you're talking about,
right?
Here is an explanation:
http://www.best16xburn.com/7.asp
As far as not trusting the computer to find errors? It's simple, the nero
burn program, has a file to burn in it's cache, it burns it to dvd. then
before ending the operation, it reads back off the dvd what it has burned
and compared the data to what it was suppose to burn, that's called
verification.
It has nothing to do with disc scans or material testing, that's another
thing.
Anyway I've had many bad verifications even while burning on 1x with a bad
batch of cheap dvd's. Maybe 1 out of 5 verified ok. The others would have 1
or 2 errors sometimes so many it was unplayable. Like I said, now even at
16x, if they verify ok, It's a 100% perfect copy of the original file, bit
for bit, exact!
The dvd burner is going to read the dvd at 1x (realtime) so burning it
slower and not verying is chancing it if you ever get a bad disc in there,
it will not play properly at the clients home or it might?
I never chance it anymore, I verify every dvd, burn at 16x and had not one
return (that was tried on a fairly new dvd player) Most people upgrade to
new players when they can't read dvd-r's their friends make, so it's no big
deal explaining to people their machine is 15 years old and can't read dvd-r
discs.
So come on, move up to 16x man. Are you ready for dual layer, blu-ray, high
speed burning isn't always the problem you make it out to be. You just had
lots of bad discs in the begining that only burned well at 2x and 4x and it
taught you to be careful, but new dye formulations are used now and it
reacts at faster speed with no burn errors.
And if you only burn in CAV mode and not Z-CLV then no possibility for speed
shift errors.
Then once it's data, 1 or 0, on or off, the read speed can't tell what speed
it was burned at! If it burns sucessful, and 100% exact, that's it! As long
as the burn speed is constant you'll be ok to 16x but maybe not higher. By
the way, the Verbatim dvd's burned with Z-CLV for some strange reason on my
machine when I tried them, still no errors but you can even hear the
spinning up and down noise while burning that you don't with the Taiyo Yuden
which burn linear at up to 16x.
AnthonyR.
"Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:m%mRe.4645$_84.493@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>I don't have the tech reasons for the questions you ask. I'm too much of a
> practician to take the time to investigate. I just know that 2X and 4X
> works, and over the long haul, higher doesn't work, IF your goal is for
> the
> disks to be playable in a maximum number of customers' machines.
>
>> I'm not sure about what you said about higher bite rates being more
> densely
>> packed?
>
> OK, maybe I said that wrong. But you're right - - a higher bit-rate will
> overload the input buffer on some cheaper and some older players. Usually
> it just gets progressively worse, and then freezes.
>
>
>> I also want to ask, do you verify the data directly after the dvd has
>> been
>> burned? I know this slows things down somewhat . . .
>
> No, I just burn at 2X, and enjoy life. It's not scientific, but I don't
> trust teh error-detection on a computer to find an error it made. If it's
> important enough of a project, I do try it on each of a bank of players to
> make sure it will work on a wide variety of players.
>
> That's my process. And it works for me . . . and my customers.
>
> Steve
>
>
Hey Steve,
That stepping progression Z-CLV allows for faster than 16x and can cause
data problems when the motor changes speeds, CAV..Constant is better to use.
When I tested a batch of Verbatim dvd's recently I noticed they burned in
Z-CLV mode, and the graph during tests looks like steps.
I burn at 16x with the TY02 dvd's at CAV, so no interuptions at all to data
stream to mess up the dvd player, the tests show a curve of data increase.
I prefer than mode. Maybe the dvd's you tried at 8x and 16x used Z-CLV mode?
It's likely that or bad dye and burn errors.
When checking a few dvd burn quality test discs a while back I noticed
different brands burned in a different mode on the same machine.
I thought that odd, I thought it was machine dependant not disc, but it did.
Anyway, as the disc spins at a constant speed the inner part will part will
hold less info than the outer parts so burn speed needs to be slower
in the inner part and faster in the outerpart, that's if disc speed is
constant, that's one burn method, the other is when the disc speed itself
starts to speed
up while it gets further in the dvd, that's what you're talking about,
right?
Here is an explanation:
http://www.best16xburn.com/7.asp
As far as not trusting the computer to find errors? It's simple, the nero
burn program, has a file to burn in it's cache, it burns it to dvd. then
before ending the operation, it reads back off the dvd what it has burned
and compared the data to what it was suppose to burn, that's called
verification.
It has nothing to do with disc scans or material testing, that's another
thing.
Anyway I've had many bad verifications even while burning on 1x with a bad
batch of cheap dvd's. Maybe 1 out of 5 verified ok. The others would have 1
or 2 errors sometimes so many it was unplayable. Like I said, now even at
16x, if they verify ok, It's a 100% perfect copy of the original file, bit
for bit, exact!
The dvd burner is going to read the dvd at 1x (realtime) so burning it
slower and not verying is chancing it if you ever get a bad disc in there,
it will not play properly at the clients home or it might?
I never chance it anymore, I verify every dvd, burn at 16x and had not one
return (that was tried on a fairly new dvd player) Most people upgrade to
new players when they can't read dvd-r's their friends make, so it's no big
deal explaining to people their machine is 15 years old and can't read dvd-r
discs.
So come on, move up to 16x man. Are you ready for dual layer, blu-ray, high
speed burning isn't always the problem you make it out to be. You just had
lots of bad discs in the begining that only burned well at 2x and 4x and it
taught you to be careful, but new dye formulations are used now and it
reacts at faster speed with no burn errors.
And if you only burn in CAV mode and not Z-CLV then no possibility for speed
shift errors.
Then once it's data, 1 or 0, on or off, the read speed can't tell what speed
it was burned at! If it burns sucessful, and 100% exact, that's it! As long
as the burn speed is constant you'll be ok to 16x but maybe not higher. By
the way, the Verbatim dvd's burned with Z-CLV for some strange reason on my
machine when I tried them, still no errors but you can even hear the
spinning up and down noise while burning that you don't with the Taiyo Yuden
which burn linear at up to 16x.
AnthonyR.
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