A 4.1 GHz Dual Core at $130 - Can it be True?

[rockerrb]

what is a DX video card? :?:

 

[Kano]

what is a DX video card? :?:

DX is short for DirectX. Currently all video cards only support DirectX 9. When the DirectX 10 cards come out (about the same time as vista most likely) they will have many new features. Including Shader Model 4.0
Just take a look at the game Crysis and you'll see what I mean.

 

[zoglog]

what is a DX video card? :?:

DX is short for DirectX. Currently all video cards only support DirectX 9. When the DirectX 10 cards come out (about the same time as vista most likely) they will have many new features. Including Shader Model 4.0
Just take a look at the game Crysis and you'll see what I mean.

Really? hmmm, I'm not sure if Crysis requires a DX10 card for incredible effects. During E3 I talked to the guy running a demo of crysis in the MS booth and he said it was running off a Dell PC you could get off the market today. But indeed the effects on crysis are amazing (especially the carrier boss battle). It was pretty damn close to modern CG in terms of effects.

 

[Kano]

The carrier scene was DX10 from what I've heard. While some of the jungle demos were running on X1900s. Which is not a DirectX 10 card. It still looks good, but the game is supposed to look even better and have better physics with DirectX 10.

I would've loved to have gone to E3. But LA is a long ways from Tampa, Florida.

 

[maxboost916]

okay i have a series of questions and i just hope someone can help me out here. im new at over clocking

i bought the combo at frys with the RC410L/800-M 2.0 with the intel 805

i was wondering how do you overclock step by step?

also i was wondering what else should i add to my setup..BE SPECIFIC(specific name of product with link)

Motherboard: RC410L/800-M 2.0

Cpu: Intel Pentium d 805

RAM:ddr2 corsair valueselect 512mb pc-4200

Powersupply: Ultra 500w

HDD: 1x 80Gb Maxtor
1x Seagate Baracuda 160gb

Video Card: EVGa GeForce 7600gt

NEC ND3550a 16x dvd+r

Thanks

 

[icbluscrn]

some more good info read everything here

Power Consumption

Using my Kill-A-Watt power meter, I measured the power consumption of the X2 system and the Pentium D system at idle and load. To make it even, I removed the Geforce 7800GT from the X2 system and installed it on the Pentium D system.

Power Consumption - Idle , Load watts
AMD X2 3800+ (stock w/CNQ) 97w / 149w
AMD X2 3800+ @ 2.5ghz 113w / 185w
Intel Pentium D 805 (stock) 138w / 214w
Intel Pentium D 805 @ 3.9 ghz 173w / 298w

The overclocked Pentium D is one hungry processor. As you can see, AMD clearly has the advantage when it comes to your electricity bill, but how much of an advantage? If my math serves me correctly, the chart below is representative of the cost of ownership. I'm going by the national average of $0.09 a kilowatt per hour. Usage is 8 hours per day. Let's face it, no one is going to run their computer at full load or leave it idle all the time, so, I'm going to average out the idle and load power consumption. I won't bore you with the calculations, but just know that it's right .

Cost of ownership
............. D805 (stck) / X2 3800(stck) / D805@3.9ghz /X2 3800+@2.5ghz
Cost of processor $132 / $295 / $132 / $295
Cost per month $3.80 / $2.65 / $5.09 / $3.21
Cost per year $45.60 / $31.80 / $61.08 / $38.52

So what does this mean? From a stock perspective, in order for the cost of ownership to be the same, it would take 11 years and 8 months. From an overclocked perspective, it would take 7 years and 2 months for the cost of ownership to be the same. In my opinion, the costs of ownership is irrelevant as I don't keep my hardware for more than 5 years, and that's stretching it. To each his own.

*Load temps and power consumption were measured with Prime 95 running on both cores. Idle temps and power consumption were measured after 15 minutes of inactivity. Asus PC Probe was used to monitor the temperatures. Testing was done in an open air environment. Ambient temps were 22C.

*The AMD X2 uses a Zalman CNPS9500 for cooling. The Pentium D 805 uses a Scythe Ninja 1000 w/Silverstone FN121 for cooling. For those that think the X2 uses an inferior heatsink, you are wrong from a performance standpoint. They perform the same with the Zalman at full fan speed, although the combination of the Ninja and FN121 fan is much quieter and also cheaper.

 

[rockerrb]

ya i'm just looking at the crysis pics right now. me i think Windows should have been 64 bit along time ago. 64 bit computing has been out for years. As far as Intel goes, it looks like may be they're finally starting to do something again. The new roadmap that came out a few months ago looks great. After the P4 3.2 came out a several yrs ago it seems like innovation at Intel just died. Prior to that they used to come out with faster and faster chips almost quarterly as well as regular and consistant price drops for the older ones.

In the mean time AMD has really taken off. I think it's important that people realize they can no longer think of processors in terms of of raw speed (like one used to be able to), and learn to learn what all the different technologies that go into a chip are and what they do. You have to think in terms of architechture of the chips these days and check independent sources like THG to get a really good handle on what any given piece of hardware can really do.
http://f3.yahoofs.com/mingle/43d32aa8z666bbc4e/profile/__sr_/168d.jpg?mgwa9aEB2wIB0ZEt

 

[weskurtz81]

icbiuscrn.... isn't it about 10 cents per kw/h? If so, wouldn't you multiply... say.... 400w..... so .4*30*24*.1 .4=400W-30=number of days per month-24=number of hours per day- .1=total per kw/h..... if that is the case wouldn't a Pentium D @ 300W cost roughly $21.6 per month? Maybe I am messing up in this calculation... but I thought it was on the money.... at the same time the X2 3800 @ 290 W would cost about $13.68 to run all month.... both at load of course... if my math is off please let me know.... but it seems correct to me.

 

[conroe]

The 805 gets hot and loads the VRM allot when overclocked, but cheap.

Conroe is going to turn the tables here. Newer stepings are getting even better TDP numbers.

I want a 805 to play with, but...must...save...CONROE!

 

[maxboost916]

okay i have a series of questions and i just hope someone can help me out here. im new at over clocking

i bought the combo at frys with the RC410L/800-M 2.0 with the intel 805

i was wondering how do you overclock step by step?

also i was wondering what else should i add to my setup..BE SPECIFIC(specific name of product with link)

Motherboard: RC410L/800-M 2.0

Cpu: Intel Pentium d 805

RAM:ddr2 corsair valueselect 512mb pc-4200

Powersupply: Ultra 500w

HDD: 1x 80Gb Maxtor
1x Seagate Baracuda 160gb

Video Card: EVGa GeForce 7600gt

NEC ND3550a 16x dvd+r

Thanks

 

[weskurtz81]

here is the thing though.... it is still an expense for a water cooling setup... in my situation, I have never owned a system that needed one, even with the max oc in the equation. And you are correct, you can reuse a water cooling system... but, you cannot leave the initial cost out of the equation.... if you don't currently own a water cooling system... and want a dual core Intel system.... I would think the better purchase would be the 930 for only about 65-75$ more than the 805.... and hit that OC on air.... and when you feel like it.... buy a water cooling system.... otherwise... without it the 805 will have a hard time over 4ghz..... that is all I really meant about the $$ spent on a water cooling system. I am not sure if you know what folding is.... but I run my system at load 24/7..... 2 instances of folding.... that is my choice.... but since i choose to do that, the power consumption is also a factor for me.... I guess I like to justify spending money on a computer.... and at least have something for it to keep busy on.... also.... keep in mind most people leave computers running 24/7, maybe not at load.... but idle.... so, that in mind... an 805 idling @ 200+ watts is going to run you about $15 a month.... my system OC'ed with 2 7800gtx's only idles at 189W. But I also have 5 HDD's and 2 optical drives.... take out the gtx and it idles lower, set it up like the other system.... the 805 test system... with 1 HDD.... lower still.... closer to 130-150W..... roughly 25% less energy consumption at idle..... makes a difference to me..... obviously not everyone though. I am not really sure where the Ram comment came from, I don't think I mentioned anything about ram.....
I am not sure if you were meaning to be a smart a$$ or not... so I will assume you weren't.... you can clarify on your next post.

 

[icbluscrn]

okay i have a series of questions and i just hope someone can help me out here. im new at over clocking

i bought the combo at frys with the RC410L/800-M 2.0 with the intel 805

i was wondering how do you overclock step by step?

also i was wondering what else should i add to my setup..BE SPECIFIC(specific name of product with link)

Motherboard: RC410L/800-M 2.0

Cpu: Intel Pentium d 805


Thanks

1st thing is hope you got rid of the stock thermal pad. I even recomend lapping the hsf and cpu.
Well you have one option only thats fsb adjustment under cnp adjustement. change front side bus by using the + key. I suspect you wont be able to get over 165. at least stable you wont. adjust it +4 steps at a time and run prime x2 or cpu burn x2 and even aprogram like 3dmark06 till it crashes or till you cant load windows anymore. When it does crash, back of the fsb by 7 and you should be good.

i have had three and #1 3.33ghz max #2 3.4ghz #3 my current set up was solid at 3.5ghz . so you should be in this range.

 

[testbenchdude]

You guys need to stop arguing.

With this CPU you can now build a top-of-the-line PC for right around $1000. That includes the motherboard, memory, CPU, and Video card. Even less if you don't include a $500 video card.

Agree on the first point. We get your point, Zdude. Let it rest.

Secondly, that's exactly what I'm doing. I priced a system recently with top of the line components at around $1900 based on an Athlon 4200 I think, but then I read this article and changed my mind. Here's what I've got so far:

Pentium 805 @ $145 (shipping and tax bite but hey, still hella cheap and I'm not gonna quibble over $15), Gigabyte GA-8N-SLI @ $120, and 2gb Patriot DDR2 667 at $170. So, $435 so far. Add in another $300 for a 7900 GT = $735. New Silverstone tower = $120, and an Antec Truepower 480 is $80, so I'm at $935.

I planned on getting the new 150gb Raptor (or two) but I can wait on that and simply chuck in my existing 2x36gb Raptor RAID 0 and Maxtor 80gb setup to start, plus my Audigy2 and existing opticals (Dual DVD burner and CD writer) and I'm golden. Oh yeah, and a new cooler for $40 and I'm still under $1k.

Best part? I'm still stoked that I can increase my video performance with SLI, so I'll add in another 7900 GT in a month or so, and then maybe a few months later I'll drop $500 for that new dually Raptor setup I want. And then if I feel like I'm lagging in CPU performance or that OC-ing the shit out of that poor little 2.66ghz proc isn't worth it anymore, I can upgrade that as well.

I'm stoked to be building this system. I regularly use PS, Vegas Video, and DVD Shrink, and I play graphix intense late game titles plus web surfing etc. This system will rock, and it's heart will be a cheap-ass proc. Can't beat that, IMHO.

 

[weskurtz81]

I am curious of one thing.... how is the X2 4200 system so different that is cost more than $900 more to build.... and in all honesty.... if you were to build AMD you would be better going with an Opteron 165.... still.... that is only $200 more max than your current system.... the 4200 is only $350 ish.... which is still on about $225 more.... so.... really.... I guess where did the extra $675 come from?

 

[zoglog]

honestly I think you need to read the article more closely. i'm pretty nooby when it comes to overclocking but they DO explain it step by step in the article -_-

 

[MRWizard6600]

this is the most insane thing i have ever seen. i thought pushing that little optie 165 to 3Ghz was mad, this is insane.

and someone someday has to explain, why a Pentium EE oced to 4.2GHZ (i think... and im talking about the Dell Renegade) underperforms to a Pentium D oced to 4.1.... cuz iv seen it... Pentium EE oced to 4.2 < FX 60 at stock speeds.....

but still, bust out the liquid cooling and push it to 4.5.... you know you guys want to.

 

[JonathanDeane]

I am curious of one thing.... how is the X2 4200 system so different that is cost more than $900 more to build.... and in all honesty.... if you were to build AMD you would be better going with an Opteron 165.... still.... that is only $200 more max than your current system.... the 4200 is only $350 ish.... which is still on about $225 more.... so.... really.... I guess where did the extra $675 come from?

I think he meant to hit the 0 and hit 9 instead and his point was that in saving that 200$ off the CPU he could spend it on other parts. Seems logical to me anyway *shrugs*

 

[weskurtz81]

good call... I imagine you are correct.... for me..... I would just get whatever I planned on getting regardless of the cpu.... but... it is always nice to save some money... $200 is a few tanks of gas....

 

[JonathanDeane]

Yeah I have made the same typo a few times lol (realy sucks when your typing in an IP and you hit 2 instead of the 5 on the 10 key.....) you know when your in a hurry and are looking at 1,000 numbers that 2 and 5 look alot alike 🙁 Right now the 805 is the poor mans CPU if I was building a computer for some one its what I would pick even though the Athlon 64 is the better CPU. I built one for myself but its mostly to hold me over untill the dust settles Then I wont feel so bad about dumping it (cause its cheap)

 

[weskurtz81]

I thought about it.... was going to spend a little more and go the 930 route... but, I decided to hold off until Conroe.... a little weary about compatability and glitchy motherboards.... just didn't feel like buying a motherboard that would be worthless in a couple of months... and then having to buy a new one for conroe.... I am jsut a little skeptical about actual support and if they really do work.... skeptical about HOW well they will work.

 

[Tjik]

[quote/]Unfortunately that's the only part of the test which is clear. Keep in mind though that this article is intended to compare Pentium D 805 with other CPU:s. In this aspect all what you get is some figures and the 3D ones of them show result which are really lousy, at least if it was done with a similar setup as shown above.

To compare it isn't enough to know only one side of the coin. That said I'm not stating that Pentium D 805 is a bad CPU, on the contrary it looks even in view of some flaws to be a very decent one.

Nevertheless if your message is that whatever CPU is the king and "wrests the overclocking crown" it's not good enough. The defeated isn't even present in the tests and about the others you practically don't know more than they where tested in some kind of system: which? I don't know.

In my eyes this journalistic failure is unfairly "harming" how some might view the CPU in question.


Side-note: Many of us love to see and get a Conroe to test, but as someone pointed out, if you're going to buy a computer today you can't think about what might be in a years time. The producers are moving too quickly for that. There will always, soon very soon, come something even better than we expected to soon be better... poor me indecisive man!

The intent of the article is not to compare the D 805 to other CPUs, except perhaps as far as the price perspective goes. The intent is, as the title of the article states: "A 4.1 GHz Dual Core at $130 - Can it be True?"

Thus the intent is to prove that you can pay $130 for a dual core CPU and overock it to 4.1Ghz.
Which is proves quite well in my opinion (although you will need at least a decent third-party cooler).
It is not intended to be compared to other, higher priced CPU's overclockability. The article is in no way deceptive.
First of all, I didn't say the article is deceptive, only that it's a "journalistic failure". Out of enthusiasm this might very well be unintentional.

The article isn't a comparison? That statement of yours really amazes me since the whole article is full of so called comparing bench marks.

I clearly quoted from the article the following "wrests the overclocking crown", and if I add the rest it's written exactly like this: "With these results in hand, Intel wrests the overclocking crown back from AMD. The Opteron 144 lasted a long time as the leading best-kept-secret candidate for overclocking, but now lags far behind the Pentium D 805 - it's got only one CPU core, and runs 50 percent slower out of the gate."

And you say this isn't in any way a comparison? Unintentionally or not this talk about "50 percent slower out of the gate" isn't worth anything. The architecture of the CPU:s in question differs a lot, which means as we all know that frequency isn't the only factor.

Bottom line: this has nothing to do with the ongoing competition between Intel and AMD, nevertheless an article like this one, which will be viewed by many as a guide, has to better written.

If the only intent was to prove that you could get 4.1GHz out of the Pentium D 805, ok it's done, but leave out the comments about which one is the winner if there's no attempt to fulfill the obligation of proving the statement.

 

[Tjik]

getting max without water cooling? hmmm... oh, the ddr2 thing you mentioned that i said. you reccomended the amd system, you can't carry over the ram when AM2 comes, with the intel you could. i was assuming you would catch on, but i guess i wouldn't expect you too. sorry for not thinking of that one. *slaps forehead. you can pull 3.8 stable. that's already way over what stock is. and 4.1 isn't really all too far off, so you can even factor the water cooling out. but even if you get one on this system or any other, its not a bad thing to have.

I'm not arguing with you and I actually think your comment has the thought of including each potential buyer's situation: some might just as well wait because they don't gain that much by such an upgrade, but others who really "need" to (ok, this is a very subjective statement) could do good in considering this option.

Why I respond has more to do with the question about DDR or DDR2. DDR2 (... and then DDR3) will eventually be the only way to go. However DDR will still be a good competitor, thanks to its sometimes very tight timings. My thought is that at this stage CPU power will have a bigger impact, especially since for example the AMD64 has an integrated memory-controller which isn't so sensitive to memory speed.

For Intel users this isn't a big deal, since they already switched to DDR2. For AMD users it might mean you could wait a while before changing socket, since it will take some time before DDR2 really gets the upper hand.

But, that's just my thoughts....

 

[weskurtz81]

wow.... I also figured you would catch on.... I get max out of all my chips on air, because they are AMD chips.... water cooling never made a difference...
but as I already said.... if you can get 3.8 max on air... or 4.5 on air for 65-75$ more..... seems like a good deal to me to go with the 4.5.... but that is just me. Also keep in mind, alot of people probably already own DDRI.... but I guess this thread was talking about over 4Ghz.... not 3.8..... guess I must be "confused" again..... I guess you just really don't understand what I am saying..... but.... that's fine..... you can be a smartass for no reason..... I am not really sure what I did to provoke or deserve your attitude, but don't bother responding to me.... because I don't think I will waste my time responding to any more of your replies.

I am sorry for talking bad about one of Intel's products, even though all I was really saying is it wasn't for me.... also.... you didn't respond about the Folding comment.... do I need to explain what that is so you can slap your pesumably slanted forhead again?

 

[Plekto]

Copncerning the build with the Silverstone case - it's a $120 dud. Please read my post back on page 8 or 9, IIRC - about cooling. You need a case with no front door/panel, and a 120mm fan at the rear. Take a Dremel to any and all fan coverings - remove them and replace with a wire finger-guard.

Plastic windows are also a no-no, since, while they look good, they effectively turn your computer into a RF Class 1 device. It will interfere with TVs, speakers, and all sorts of things(and vice-versa), since there isn't any RF protection there.

Lastly, aluminum cases suck. I hate cutting my fingers on sharp edges as well.

The rest of the build looks fine, though. Don't forget to budget in $40 or so for better fans as the OEM ones are usually notoriously noisy.

 

[JonathanDeane]

wow.... I also figured you would catch on.... I get max out of all my chips on air, because they are AMD chips.... water cooling never made a difference...
but as I already said.... if you can get 3.8 max on air... or 4.5 on air for 65-75$ more..... seems like a good deal to me to go with the 4.5.... but that is just me. Also keep in mind, alot of people probably already own DDRI.... but I guess this thread was talking about over 4Ghz.... not 3.8..... guess I must be "confused" again..... I guess you just really don't understand what I am saying..... but.... that's fine..... you can be a smartass for no reason..... I am not really sure what I did to provoke or deserve your attitude, but don't bother responding to me.... because I don't think I will waste my time responding to any more of your replies.

I am sorry for talking bad about one of Intel's products, even though all I was really saying is it wasn't for me.... also.... you didn't respond about the Folding comment.... do I need to explain what that is so you can slap your pesumably slanted forhead again?

hehehehe yeah im perfectly happy running mine at 3.6 right now and its nice to know that if I wanted too use an after market cooler I could pick up another few hundred Mhz I think people who are posting about the water cooling thing need to actualy buy one then post. I have seen some comments like "you need water cooling to get over 3.3Ghz" wich is weird... I mean im still using the stupid stock cooler (too lazy to install the thermaltake I hate pulling my mobo....)