[SOLVED] A few questions about powersupplies

[Dj0gany]

Hi, so i have 4 questions about powersupplies:

1. When you have a modular powersupply, and you loose cables (lets say you lose a 8pin pcie cable), can you use about any good sleeved psu extensions cable ( like these one's ), or do you have to buy the original cable for the psu, and then slap on the sleeved extension one ?
2. Can psu's malfunction even at idle, or do they only malfunction at max/ high load?
3. When talking about pcie adapters, we all know they are bad. But what if i need another molex plugg for lets say a fan, can i just buy a molex splitter, like this one? Is it "safe" to use them?
4. When looking for a powersupply, are the first things you look at wattage and efficiency rating and brand ofc, or is there anything you should be aware off before going into further examination of the unit?

Thanks in advance.

 

[--SID--]

When you have a modular powersupply, and you loose cables (lets say you lose a 8pin pcie cable), can you use about any good sleeved psu extensions cable ( like these one's ), or do you have to buy the original cable for the psu, and then slap on the sleeved extension one ?

Extension have male and female connectors. The male connector is put in the gpu but the female don't fit, thank God, in the psu so it's unusable without the original modulair cable.

Can psu's malfunction even at idle, or do they only malfunction at max/ high load?

Both. It can even malfunction when it's in standby caused by a bad 5V standby regulation.

When talking about pcie adapters, we all know they are bad. But what if i need another molex plugg for lets say a fan, can i just buy a molex splitter, like this one? Is it "safe" to use them?

No problem for a fan because the powerdraw is low, about 0,2A.

When looking for a powersupply, are the first things you look at wattage and efficiency rating and brand ofc, or is there anything you should be aware off before going into further examination of the unit?

The first thing I look at is the ATX spec. For nowedays systems minimum of ATX2.4 is required. To meet ATX2.4 the psu needs to have DC-DC on the secondary side.

 

[Juular]

1. You can't use an extension anyway if you don't have a cable to connect it to, isn't it ? And no, you can't just use a random cable or set of cables with your PSU either, you need to specifically buy ones that are compatible with it, there are some standards, like Corsair Type 3/4 cables that are compatible with most modern Corsair PSUs (but again, check first) and some EVGA and i think Seasonic too cables can be interchanged between different models (but there's no such table AFAIK), but other than that you better assume that all cables are different.
2. They malfunction even when powered down or not connected at all.
3. Chances are that if you really need a Molex for your fan then it's probably some pretty high-powered fan so you shouldn't use a splitter for it. A splitter for a fan header is fine tho, there's not much current going on.
4. I mean, neither wattage, brand or efficiency are things that reflect the PSU's quality in the first place. It's a hard topic, all brands have various PSUs of varying quality and performance levels, just don't look at the brand at all, it provides nothing of value to answer a question of whether the PSU in question is good or bad. Same with efficiency rating, yeah, most dumpster fire level PSUs aren't even rated for 80+ Bronze but aside of that, if one PSU has 80+ Gold / Platinum / Titanium efficiency and another is 80+ Bronze that means absolutely nothing, there's plenty of bad to mediocre PSUs with high efficiency rating. Same for wattage, high wattage PSU isn't necessarily going to be better than lower wattage one, and there's no such thing as 'if you run a PSU at 20% wattage it's going to last forever', it's a myth. They only thing you can derive some useful information looking at the PSU is it's label, PSU will be proabably at least not a dumpster fire if it's rated for full range input voltage (100-240V), has at least some 80+ efficiency badge on it (not because it's a sign of quality again, but because they were bothered enough to pay for certification), has a variety of government product certificates (EAC, CCC, TUV, Intertek and so on, again, because they were bothered enough to do all the paperwork), and the total continuous wattage on 12V rails is at least 90-95% of total rated wattage of the PSU (which means that it's probably not a decade old design). But really, neither of still means that it's not a bad PSU, you need professional reviews and a lot of user feedback (user reviews are useless by themselves but if there's some critical flaw or a lot of RMA/DOA you'll see that at least).

 

[Dj0gany]

Thank you both for replying.
I will just ask about a certain psu either here or look at some professional reviews.
Another question:
Can a psu fan be used a case fan, or is it just going to work with the psu?
Lets say the psu is dead, ofcourse.

 

[Zerk2012]

In general you would not open a PSU to get the fan out, you would dispose of it in a responsible way depending where you live.

If I built and sold you a PC.
You would get the PC and the case box with all the parts boxes, packages inside the case box.
Any extra power supply cables not used will be in the power supply box.

If I was shipping it to you the PC would be in the case box with any extra cables for the PSU zip tied inside the case out of sight of course.

For the PSU the more experienced you get the less research you need to do.
What to use depends on the PC.
Example I put a CV 450 in my wife's new PC and it's fine for the parts used but I would not use a CV model in a gaming or high work load PC.

 

[Dj0gany]

In general you would not open a PSU to get the fan out, you would dispose of it in a responsible way depending where you live.

If I built and sold you a PC.
You would get the PC and the case box with all the parts boxes, packages inside the case box.
Any extra power supply cables not used will be in the power supply box.

If I was shipping it to you the PC would be in the case box with any extra cables for the PSU zip tied inside the case out of sight of course.

For the PSU the more experienced you get the less research you need to do.
What to use depends on the PC.
Example I put a CV 450 in my wife's new PC and it's fine for the parts used but I would not use a CV model in a gaming or high work load PC.

So you would say its just easier to check on the either psu tier list or look at some reviews rather than messings round with more complex research like what capacitors are there and other components?

 

[Zerk2012]

So you would say its just easier to check on the either psu tier list or look at some reviews rather than messings round with more complex research like what capacitors are there and other components?

Not what I said.
Professional reviews not user reviews.

Just because it doesn't use all jap caps doesn't make it automatically a bad power supply.
A so called tier list is usually out dated.

 

[Juular]

A so called tier list is usually out dated.

Depends lol, i've updated ours just two days ago.

 

[Dj0gany]

Not what I said.
Professional reviews not user reviews.

Just because it doesn't use all jap caps doesn't make it automatically a bad power supply.
A so called tier list is usually out dated.

I meant professional reviews... sry

 

[refillable]

So you would say its just easier to check on the either psu tier list or look at some reviews rather than messings round with more complex research like what capacitors are there and other components?

If you can trust the methodology or the tier list then fine, but I am the one that disagree with the methodology. Like for example, why is the Vengeance Silver on the same level as the AX1600i? That's a very weird and potentially misleading placement. Secondly, in the discussion that happened here in Tomshardware, I read that Jonny guru asked the list guys to put the Deepcool DQM V2L on a lower tier, and I read the discussion on another forum that it's because they have problems with FETs blowing up at 90 V input. So they decided to put it on a lower tier. Like what about the others? Surely not all of the power supplies in the top tier are not prone to blowing up at lower input voltages, right? It just happen to be unfortunate that the V2L/CWT GPX was tested by Jonny guru.

But I have to credit them because at least they're making things easier for buyers maybe 75-90 % of the time, but if you know what you're doing, you will find some problems there.

Of course, learning about power supplies is hard, because it's a complicated subject. Being able to research what is good and what is bad like the caps, FETs, inductors, etc. is very hard. I mean it took me years to actually know what a PSU is made up of and I'm still considering myself as a newbie in this field (not to the level of Jonny guru and among others). This is where something like the tier list might help you, but then again there are flaws there, so beware.

 

[Dj0gany]

If you can trust the methodology or the tier list then fine, but I am the one that disagree with the methodology. Like for example, why is the Vengeance Silver on the same level as the AX1600i? That's a very weird and potentially misleading placement. Secondly, in the discussion that happened here in Tomshardware, I read that Jonny guru asked the list guys to put the Deepcool DQM V2L on a lower tier, and I read the discussion on another forum that it's because they have problems with FETs blowing up at 90 V input. So they decided to put it on a lower tier. Like what about the others? Surely not all of the power supplies in the top tier are not prone to blowing up at lower input voltages, right? It just happen to be unfortunate that the V2L/CWT GPX was tested by Jonny guru.

But I have to credit them because at least they're making things easier for buyers maybe 75-90 % of the time, but if you know what you're doing, you will find some problems there.

Of course, learning about power supplies is hard, because it's a complicated subject. Being able to research what is good and what is bad like the caps, FETs, inductors, etc. is very hard. I mean it took me years to actually know what a PSU is made up of and I'm still considering myself as a newbie in this field (not to the level of Jonny guru and among others). This is where something like the tier list might help you, but then again there are flaws there, so beware.

Yeah, thats what i think too.
Im yet to learn everything about motherboards (let alone PSU's), that you know, cant be solved with a simple google search xD
PSU are a very complicated subject, so while taking a quick peek at the list, im going to make sure to ask someone here about to unit.
I know that FOCUS GX, Corsair RMx, and others are the most used and trusted ones, but for other psu's, im going to have to look for better professional review.

 

[Juular]

Like for example, why is the Vengeance Silver on the same level as the AX1600i?

They're not on the same level of 'level' as you think they are, they simply on the same line there because they're both multi\single-rail switchable PSUs from Corsair to qualify for our tier A requirements, and then if you pay attention AX1600i is actually ranked higher since it's gold colored which has higher requirements. Multi\single-rail subtiers of tier A are not tiers or level per se, they're there just to signify that PSU is multi-rail or not.
Now, if your point is 'why Corsair Vengeance Silver is on the same tier as AX1600i', there's no point in splitting the list to more tiers, it was higher before, there were like a handful of units in that higher tier, most of which were from Corsair, that poses no purpose but to confuse people, and Vengeance Silver is a good enough PSU to be there for sure.

Like what about the others? Surely not all of the power supplies in the top tier are not prone to blowing up at lower input voltages, right? It just happen to be unfortunate that the V2L/CWT GPX was tested by Jonny guru.

And what are you expecting us to do about that ? We're acting on the info we get, there's nothing we can do about PSUs that blow up but no-one knows about that lol. If you have something we don't - we're always open for suggestions.

 

[refillable]

Yeah, thats what i think too.
Im yet to learn everything about motherboards (let alone PSU's), that you know, cant be solved with a simple google search xD
PSU are a very complicated subject, so while taking a quick peek at the list, im going to make sure to ask someone here about to unit.
I know that FOCUS GX, Corsair RMx, and others are the most used and trusted ones, but for other psu's, im going to have to look for better professional review.

Mind you that "Professional reviews" isn't everything. For example take a look at Gigabyte's P-GM series. These PSUs will be fine when you let 95% of the reviewers test it, and when Aris tested its over power protection it blows up. Not everyone does this and it seems to be the only way to proof that the PSU sucks. Had he never test it, we would be under the impression that everything is fine.

Now, if your point is 'why Corsair Vengeance Silver is on the same tier as AX1600i', there's no point in splitting the list to more tiers, it was higher before, there were like a handful of units in that higher tier, most of which were from Corsair, that poses no purpose but to confuse people, and Vengeance Silver is a good enough PSU to be there for sure.

I know where you're coming from with this, but to me it still makes a little sense for a PSU that is supposed to be the lower end of Corsair's line up sitting at the same level as the super duper good AX1600i. I know you have the methodology that results this, but then again, it still makes a little sense to me.

And what are you expecting us to do about that ? We're acting on the info we get, there's nothing we can do about PSUs that blow up but no-one knows about that lol. If you have something we don't - we're always open for suggestions.

Yeah, this is the problem. Not all PSUs are rated equally, and while I might not know how to fix it (sorry) - it still needs to be pointed out and fixed.

 

[Juular]

for a PSU that is supposed to be the lower end of Corsair's line up sitting at the same level as the super duper good AX1600i.

Vengeance Silver isn't really a low-end PSU, and when you look at AX1600i, everything else would look kinda low-end, that what i was talking about, if we were to tier it to it's own superior tier, nothing else would be there, so there's no point.