Acronis or Casper? | Bootable Clone Drive

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commissarmo

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I'm interested in creating a BOOTABLE clone drive of my system/OS disk.

I want this drive to be capable of being booted up immediately upon any kind of primary failure.

I know that incremental backup doesn't work in tandem with 'cloning' of a drive, unless you clone the drive say, daily or at some frequent interval. For that eventuality, I use Acronis to maintain incremental FILE backups.

But, I've been told that Casper (their website confuses me since it uses language very similar to Acronis, even though I sense they're using different software methods) would better allow me to create the aforementioned BOOTABLE clone drive.

Note - I do NOT want an image of the system disk which I then use a bootable media (like the OS install disk) to restore with.

1. I want to create a hot-swap, MBR-cloned, ready-boot disk which I can plug in, select at the BIOS, and boot into the moment I have some kind of failure, and have my former system (whenever it was cloned last) ready to go.

2. I'm wondering if Acronis will do this readily, or if perhaps Casper, which I've never used, might be a better choice, given their claims of 'cloning' technology.

Thanks!
 
According to Casper 8.0 (Future System Solutions) technical support, Casper 8.0 was specifically designed to do EXACTLY what is being mooted - create hot/live bootable clone drives of the system disk without any intermediary required to restore upon system failure. Specifically they stated there should be NO problem with hardware RAID arrays (or any RAID arrays for that matter), which makes sense as RAID shouldn't obviously, to me, interfere with this process.

I'd be interested to know why you had a problem @popatim, but for now I have purchased Casper 8.0 and I am ready to test it with the next few days. I believe it is the solution I have been looking for for a LONG time now.
 
I run raid0's and there are 3 in my editing rig; two of them are independently bootable (via f12 choose boot device). Back they they were all 1tb drives. I imaged 1 bootable array to an external backup drive. shut down and pulled the other bootable pair and installed 2 new ssd's and configured them as raid0.

The restore seemed to work fine but the system would not boot to the ssd's and would not no matter what I tried even though all the files appeared to be there.
End of my testing since I had planned on a cleaninstall anyways.
I wonder if they have an update out. I'm pretty sure it was an early ver 8.
I've been itching to try a paid of those Seagate 7200rpm sshd's in raid0. LoL
 
There is "online" and "offline" cloning. Online means clonig the HDD running right now. Unlike say Clonezilla

Bootable?
EaseUS Backup's "Clone" function did not ! Acronis True Image WD version did not ! Which does ?

UPDATE: while away six hours CASPER 8.0 made it ! Now my laptop boots and runs using a new HDD
 
I wonder whether Casper copies the Microsoft disc ID? It's easy to do or modify with the DOS command if you know how. Just wondering if you needed to. The only thing I know of that copies absolutely everything is the UNIX command dd.

does anybody know if the Casper clone is a full forensic clone with file slack the same on the target?

Commissarmo get a live FreeBSD or Debian CD. Boot from that and use dd; this is the gold standard for disk cloning. If you're not already a little bit of a Linux nerd there will be a few hours devoted to the learning curve.
 


Acronis makes me very nervous - I have used it a few times to clone a drive when upgrading hardware and I do so with my heart in my mouth.

I tried Casper v7.0 about a year ago on my Win 7 Pro setup and it failed miserably at the primary reason I bought it - the creation and maintenance of a fully-bootable backup drive - to the point where the company refunded my purchase price in full, which seemed to be a comprehensive admission that their software would not perform that function as advertised.

I have been in conversation with their tech/sales department this last week regarding v8.0, which they say now provides support for UEFI and GPT (presumably earlier versions did not do this which is why v7.0 would not create and maintain a fully bootable backup).

Below I attach the last email from them:
Me:So, if my understanding is correct, the new version 8.0 includes support for UEFI systems as well as GPT partitioning, which presumably did not exist in earlier versions, which would be why the "fully bootable backup" feature would not function on the version that I previously owned. Is that correct?

Casper: Possibly

Me: Do you have a white paper or some similar document that outlines how Casper 8.0 manages the process of maintaining the fully bootable backup? How files in use are copied to the backup and so forth?

Casper: No we do not. Casper is performing a clone, similar to other disk cloning software, and uses a volume snapshot to ensure files in use can be successfully copied. "

The trial version of Casper v8.0 lacks volume sizing, so one would need to have a spare physical drive to test it on. The paid-for version has volume sizing naturally enough, but the trial version does not, so in the process of cloning the primary drive it will format the entire target drive, rendering the excess space above the size of the source drive unallocated.

Has anybody tried it yet?
 
ElectricRhino (and others who may be interested)...

First of all let me say at the outset that I have no financial or any other commercial interest in the Casper disk-cloning software. I mention this because I have often been accused of being a zealot for that program so I must have some financial interest in the product. I am merely a satisfied (very satisfied!) user of this software.
I have been using various versions of the Casper disk-cloning program for about 10 years or so. (The current version is Casper 8). During that time I have probably used the program thousands of times cloning hundreds of hard drives (HDD) and SSDs. My experience has been solely with the various MS OSs primarily with XP, Vista, Windows 7 & 8.
The basic point of a disk-cloning program such as the Casper program is that by cloning the contents of one's day-to-day working HDD or SSD to another HDD/SSD (internal or external), the user creates a precise copy of his or her "source" HDD/SSD. Thus, a comprehensive backup of one's system has been accomplished in one fell swoop, i.e., the user has backed up his/her entire system including the operating system, all programs & applications, registry, configurations, and of course, all user-created data. In short - *everything* that's on the source drive. So that the recipient of the cloned contents - the "destination" HDD/SSD - will be, for all practical purposes - a precise copy of the source HDD with all data immediately accessible. What better backup system can one have?

While there are other disk-cloning programs (Acronis True Image is one) that can perform this operation, Casper has a rather extraordinary ability to create "incremental clones", using what Casper refers to as its "SmartClone" technology. Understand that the "incremental clone" thus created is a *complete* clone of the source disk, not an "incremental file". The result of this incremental clone process is that it takes the user only a fraction of the time to create subsequent clones of the source HDD/SSD than it would otherwise take using the typical disk-cloning methodology.

As an example...

When a typical disk-cloning program undertakes its disk-to-disk cloning process it does so without regard that the source and destination drives involved in the disk-cloning operation are the *identical* drives that had been involved when a prior disk-cloning operation had been undertaken. It doesn't matter to the disk-cloning program whether the HDD/SSD now being cloned was cloned an hour ago, or a day ago, or whenever. The "now" disk-cloning operation will proceed as if the HDD/SSD recipient of the clone, i.e., the destination HDD/SSD is bare of data, even if that same destination HDD/SSD was the recipient of a prior clone from the same source HDD/SSD 10 minutes ago.

As a result...

The disk-cloning operation will take a substantial amount of time to "do its work" each time the disk-cloning operation is undertaken, without regard to the fact that perhaps only a relatively few changes involving the source HDD/SSD's data has changed since the last disk-cloning operation. So, as an example, let's say it takes about 40 minutes or so to clone the contents of a drive containing 100 GB of data to another drive. Two days later the user decides to again back up his or her system by undertaking another disk-cloning operation. Presumably the data changes over those two days haven't been especially large. But with the typical disk-cloning program, it will take the disk-cloning program just about the *same* period of time to perform current the disk-cloning operation as it did originally, i.e., 40 minutes, in the preceding example. And so on and so on in the following days.

But with the Casper program, the program has the capability of recognizing *only* the change in data that has occurred from its last disk-cloning operation and will proceed to "do its work" on that basis. Thus, given the example above it will probably take less than 4 minutes or so to complete the disk-cloning operation. And so on and so forth.

So you can see what a valuable incentive this is for users to systematically & routinely backup their systems with the Casper program - knowing that the expenditure of time to complete the disk-cloning operation will be relatively slight. Surely this is a strong incentive for a user to maintain his/her complete system in a reasonably up-to-date fashion. Obviously the amount of time it will take to complete this "incremental" disk-cloning operation using Casper will be dependent upon the total volume of data being cloned as well as the additions, deletions, configuration changes, etc. that the PC user had made since he or she undertook the previous disk-cloning operation. So the user is encouraged to perform these disk-cloning operations on a relatively frequent basis since by doing so the expenditure of time in completing the operation will be relatively short. This last point is crucial. The program works best when it is used with a fairly high degree of frequency - perhaps not less than once a week or even on a daily or two or three times a week basis . When it is used in that manner, the expenditure of time in completing the disk (or partition)-cloning operation comes close to being trifling. And most importantly the user is secure in the knowledge that he/she has an up-to-date complete backup of his/her system

A quick example based upon one of my PCs SSDs containing total data of about 105 GB. Note this is *total* data - including the OS, all programs & applications, all my user-created data - in short, *everything* that's on that "source" SSD.

I last used the Casper program to clone the contents of that drive four days ago. Naturally, like most users, I've made changes of various kinds over that four-day period. Added, deleted, modified some programs, manipulated this or that configuration, etc., etc. More or less the typical kinds of changes made by most users over a period of time. Earlier today I again cloned the contents of that source SSD to one of my desktop's internal SSDs. It took just about 2 minutes. Two minutes. (I should point out that I've been converting nearly all my HDDs to SSDs so disk-cloning speed is considerably faster than when using HDDs. I would estimate that in the example I've given it would have taken about 4 minutes to complete the disk-cloning operation using HDDs as the source & destination disks).

The point to keep in mind is that the recipient of the clone - the destination HDD/SSD - will be a precise copy of the source HDD/SSD with all its data immediately accessible in exactly the same way one would access data from their source drive - their day-to-day working HDD/SSD in most cases. And the destination HDD/SSD, should it be another internal HDD/SSD or a USB external HDD/SSD will be immediately bootable without the need of any recovery process.

So that if a user's source HDD/SSD becomes dysfunctional for any reason - he or she will have at hand a bootable HDD/SSD that will return their system to a bootable fully functional state in virtually no time at all. Had the user cloned the contents of their source HDD/SSD to a USB external HDD/SSD (instead of an internally-connected HDD/SSD), he/she could restore their system in reasonably short order by cloning the contents of the USBEHD back to an internal HDD/SSD or, should the drive itself be removed from the external enclosure it could then be installed as the system's internal HDD/SSD - fully bootable & functional. In some (but not all) cases because of the proprietary nature of some manufacturer's PCs - desktop or laptop - the cloned USB external HDD/SSD may not be bootable when connected as a USB device although when its contents are cloned back to an internally-connected HDD/SSD that drive will, of course, be bootable. Similarly if the cloned USB external HDD/SSD can be removed from its USB enclosure and installed as an internally-connected drive in the PC it will, of course, be bootable.

It's hard to imagine a better comprehensive backup system for the vast majority of PC users than a disk-cloning system such as the one I've been describing and strongly recommend. Besides its speed of operation as indicated above the program is extremely easy to learn & use. It shouldn't take most PC users more than a few minutes to learn how to use the program.
The cost of the program is $49.99. AFAIK, the program is only available from the developer via download.
There's a 30-day trial version available at...
http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/
The trial version is slightly crippled but it should give you a good idea of how the program works.

While the trial version is basically operational in that it will "clone" the contents of one HDD or SSD to another HDD or SSD, the "destination" drive, i.e., the recipient of the clone, will be resized only to the extent of the disk size of the "source" drive, i.e., the drive that is being cloned.

For example, say you're using the trial version of the program to clone the contents of your 128 GB HDD to a 500 GB HDD. After the disk-cloning operation is completed the 500 GB HDD will contain the contents of the 128 GB HDD, however, only a 128 GB partition will be created on the 500 GB HDD; the remaining disk space on that "destination" drive will constitute "unallocated" disk space - disk space that can later be partitioned/formatted or, (if using a third-party utility such as Partition Magic or EASEUS Partition Manager), the created 128 GB can be "expanded" so as to include the unallocated disk space thus creating a 500 GB partition on the destination HDD.

Using the licensed version of Casper there would not be this sort of limitation. Should the user choose, the full disk space of the destination HDD would be utilized to contain the cloned contents of the source HDD so that there would be no "unallocated" disk space on the destination HDD. However should the user wish he/she would also have an option to create whatever size partition he or she desires on the destination HDD, the only limitation being that the size (disk-space) allotted to that partition be sufficient to hold the cloned data contents.




 
popatim:
I was actually responding to a fairly recent msg. (9/2/14) from "ElectrcRhino", not any earlier message. The 9/2/14 msg ended with the question "Has anybody tried it yet?". As I stated in my response I've had a substantial amount of experience with the Casper program and provided my reasons for highly recommending that disk-cloning program. Admittedly my response was quite detailed but I thought my experience with that particular program might be helpful to users considering a disk-cloning program.
 
I stand corrected, You did say you used it thousands of times. <grin>

I wish I could say the same. It failed in my testing in to/from ssd/hdd raid arrays.
ie- from an ssd raid to an hdd raid and to an ssd raid from the hdd raid.
Both resulted in non-bootable arrays.

Since other free utilities can do disk to disk clones just fine I saw no reason to keep Casper which was a shame , I had high hopes. At least they gave it to me at no cost.
 
popatim:
We haven't had experience with HDD Raid arrays for more years now than I care to remember. Given the PC environment we worked in (home & small business users) the myriad frustrating problems involving data corruption and system failure we and other users continually ran into using that type of data storage device seemed to us more than offset any perceived significant advantages in speed & data integrity presumably offered by the Raid concept. It seems to us that by & large the development of modern PC operating systems together with faster, more reliable HDDs, SSDs and other superior consumer available PC hardware over the past decade or so generally negates the need for the great majority of PC users to employ RAID configurations. Obviously you feel differently so if it works for you so be it.
 
I'm working on resolving this myself. We have an old version of Acronis in the house and a copy of Casper 8.0.

Casper has the problem of being installed on a laptop and literally you cannot use it anywhere else, plus it cannot create a recovery CD. So the only logical way for us to use it is to make image clones every time, no incremental backups ever. Every backup must be capable of booting.

Acronis allows a full CD bootable copy for recovery purposes, at least the old copy did. The problem I have with the old copy is it won't touch the dynamic disks in windows used for raid, though the updated versions will. So I have to ponder getting an update. I have no idea if Casper would or not.

Ideally I'd just plug in another drive and turn up the mirroring but the disks are not compatible, sector size not being the same on the new disk.
 
AnotherGary writes on 9/18/14...
"I'm working on resolving this myself. We have an old version of Acronis in the house and a copy of Casper 8.0.

Casper has the problem of being installed on a laptop and literally you cannot use it anywhere else, plus it cannot create a recovery CD. So the only logical way for us to use it is to make image clones every time, no incremental backups ever. Every backup must be capable of booting.

Acronis allows a full CD bootable copy for recovery purposes, at least the old copy did. The problem I have with the old copy is it won't touch the dynamic disks in windows used for raid, though the updated versions will. So I have to ponder getting an update. I have no idea if Casper would or not.

Ideally I'd just plug in another drive and turn up the mirroring but the disks are not compatible, sector size not being the same on the new disk."

Hi:
It's hard for me to relate to the problem you're having with the Casper disk-cloning program. The fact that the program is installed on your laptop should not inhibit you in effectively utilizing that program as a routine comprehensive backup system that's fully bootable & functional in all respects. There is absolutely no need to "make image clones every time". (Incidentally, Casper does have disk-imaging capability but for various reasons I'm not fond of using the program that way.)

Using your laptop with the Casper program installed you can simply use its disk-cloning capability to clone the laptop's HDD (or SSD) to a USB external hard drive (or SSD) that's connected to the laptop. You can do this routinely so that you have at hand a reasonably up-to-date comprehensive backup of your laptop's system. The cloned contents on the USB external drive will be bootable and contain a functional system - in effect a precise copy of the contents of the laptop's drive that you previously cloned. The cloned contents of the USB external drive can be cloned back to the laptop's drive should that drive be dysfunctional. (Remember that the Casper program will also be residing on the cloned USB external drive). Depending upon the BIOS and other factors involving your laptop's system the USB external drive may or may not be bootable when connected to the laptop as a USB device. Although the cloned USB drive is inherently bootable (because of the Casper program) it may not directly boot when connected to the laptop as a USB device. However in many cases it will boot with no problem. In any event there should be no problem cloning the contents of the USB external drive back to a non-defective internally-connected laptop HDD or SSD.

Should you be able to remove the cloned drive from its external enclosure and install that drive in the laptop replacing the laptop's dysfunctional or defective internal drive the cloned disk will be fully bootable & functional. (Obviously I'm assuming it's a 2 1/2" HDD or SSD in that situation.) In any event the usual scenario to return the system to a bootable fully functional state would be to simply clone the contents of the cloned USB external drive back to the laptop's internal HDD or SSD.
Art

 
I neglected to add one other piece of info to my message of 9/18/14.

Assuming your laptop's HDD or SSD is defective or dysfunctional and thus unable to boot and you find that the previously cloned USB external HDD/SSD is similarly unable to boot (for the reasons I previously explained) when connected to the laptop as a USB device you would obviously be unable to clone the contents of that USB external drive back to the laptop's internal drive since you would not be able to access the Casper program under that situation.

Given that scenario you would need to use the Casper-created Startup Disk (CD) that you previously created when you first installed the Casper program onto your laptop's drive. A simple mouse click on the Casper menu item "Create Startup Disk" is all that you would have had to do during the installation of the Casper program on your laptop's drive and the bootable Startup Disk containing the Casper program would be created on a CD. You would then use that CD to clone the contents of the USB external HDD/SSD back to the internally-connected laptop's HDD or SSD.
Art
 


 
ArtPog, When doing a bootable clone, does Casper change the Disk Unique ID so that when the system is booted with the clone in place, there is no collision and Windows will not refuse to mount the clone as visible and writeable? I can tell you when doing a bit for bit clone with the Unix tool dd I find when I reboot the clone is invisible. I've heard Partition Wizard makes clones with the ID altered to avoid this issue.
 


lwm:
I honestly cannot answer your question as it pertains to whether Casper does or does not change the "Disk Unique ID". Frankly I'm not sufficiently technically advanced that I even know what a "Disk Unique ID" is! Although from the name I suspect it refers to embedded (?) coding that identifies a specific HDD/SSD unique to that disk. Is that right?

All I can tell you is that Casper has no issues with creating a bootable functional clone that for all practical purposes is a bit for bit copy of the source HDD/SSD and that the cloned disk is (again, for all practical purposes) a precise copy of the source disk and as such completely visible, readable, & writeable.
 
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