[SOLVED] Advice for a new Alder Lake build (~1000€) without a GPU

[doglatemlive55]

Hello there,

I am currently stuck on 4790k build with an upgraded GPU (2070 Super) and am looking to build new and reuse the GPU... I am pretty much a novice at this so any advice would be highly appreciated...
I already put together a list of parts that I imagine would be good together but feel free to change out anything in a simmilar price range or please point out any incompatibilities that may come up...

Approximate Purchase Date: upcoming weeks before christmas
Budget Range: ~1000€ but is flexible if some part is really worth paying more for
System Usage from Most to Least Important: primarily gaming (BF 2042, HALO Infinite etc.)

Are you buying a monitor: already have one (27" 1440p, 144hz)

Parts to Upgrade: everything apart from the GPU and peripherals

Do you need to buy OS: Yes
Please note that if you're using an OEM license of Windows, you will need a new one when buying a new motherboard.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: https://pcpartpicker.com but not everything listed there can be bought in my country so for that : https://www.alza.sk/EN/

Location: Slovakia

Parts Preferences: not really preferred brands but I would probably go down the alder lake road

Overclocking: Maybe ( when I can get my hands on better cooler)

SLI or Crossfire: No

Your Monitor Resolution: 1440p

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: My current CPU 4790k just isn´t enough anymore as more and more games can utilize more than 4 cores and I can feel lots of stuttering...

What I put together:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor | €342.90 @ Alza
CPU Cooler | ARCTIC Freezer i35 A-RGB CPU Cooler | €50.90 @ Alza
Motherboard | MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard | €209.90 @ Alza
Memory | Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory | €158.90 @ Alza
Storage | Kingston A2000 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €95.90 @ Alza
Case | Corsair 4000D Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case | €94.90 @ Alza
Power Supply | Corsair RMx (2018) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €101.90 @ Alza
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €1055.30
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-12-05 13:50 CET+0100 |

some comments/questions to those parts :

the CPU cooler, the freezer i35 is currently the only viable choice I think that I can get my hands on for a reasonable price, from some reviews I watched on youtube it seems like it can cool the 12600k just enough but I will probably upgrade to an 240mm aio in a few months when those will come with 1700 mounting kit included, so this is just a temporary solution

don´t know much about motherboards but is this one from MSI allright? does it lack any important features?

for the PSU there is not much to ask but they have a 2018 and 2021 model but the 2018 one is ~25€ less... is there anything better about the 2021 model?

 

[Lafong]

Like you, I am thinking about Alder Lake.

My main issue right now is do I go with 12600K or the 12700.

Problem is, the 12700 has not been released. It may be superior to the 12600K for some work loads. We'll have to wait for reviews.

If you have to buy before the end of the year, the 12600K would be the choice, but you might want to wait?

DDR4 versus DDR5 is another issue. There appears to be little in favor of DDR5 right now and it is quite expensive.

 

[doglatemlive55]

Like you, I am thinking about Alder Lake.

My main issue right now is do I go with 12600K or the 12700.

Problem is, the 12700 has not been released. It may be superior to the 12600K for some work loads. We'll have to wait for reviews.

If you have to buy before the end of the year, the 12600K would be the choice, but you might want to wait?

DDR4 versus DDR5 is another issue. There appears to be little in favor of DDR5 right now and it is quite expensive.

yes I was on edge with going for 12700 KF but when checking out benchmarks at 1440p there didn´t seem to be that much of a difference... of course the two more cores could give you an advantage in some situations but I am not sure if that would be worth it for me...

as for the DDR4/5 situation from what I read DDR 5 will make sense in a year or two so I guess I´ll stick to DDR4 I also read somewhere that upcoming 13th gen chips should still support DDR4 so if there´d be a need to upgrade the CPU later it should still be possible with DDR4 board

 

[Nighthawk117]

yes I was on edge with going for 12700 KF but when checking out benchmarks at 1440p there didn´t seem to be that much of a difference... of course the two more cores could give you an advantage in some situations but I am not sure if that would be worth it for me...

as for the DDR4/5 situation from what I read DDR 5 will make sense in a year or two so I guess I´ll stick to DDR4 I also read somewhere that upcoming 13th gen chips should still support DDR4 so if there´d be a need to upgrade the CPU later it should still be possible with DDR4 board

The differences right now are very small, you do not need a 12700KF for gaming. However the 12700KF has more gas in the tank for 3 years down the line when games are more demanding. I don't know what GPU you will upgrade to in the future, but if an Nvidia 4080 a year from now was on your mind, then I'd get the i7. As for memory, DDR5 right now has higher bandwidth but worse latency so it's beneficial impact in games is limited to non existent. Like DDR4 when it replaced DDR3, you probably wont see anything too impressive until it's been out a year or 2 and new faster kits come along.

 

[geofelt]

Your list is reasonable and will work.

I have some thoughts:

I have a MSI Z690-A in the works for a 12900K build.
It certainly is a decently priced unit without the RGB "bling" which I do not want.
Reading forums and such, there are a few minor issues that will soon be corrected by a motherboard bios update.
I am not worried.

To allow the best turbo performance on the 12600K you want a very good cooler.
While the AF cooler will let you run, I think you are a bit short sighted and should buy a top cooler up front. Also, be careful that any cooler you buy includes a lga1700 mounting capability.
Cooler makers will offer such kits nominally priced, or for free.
But, older stock may not include the needed fittings.
My suggestion would be a Noctua NH-D15s which will cool as well as any 280 aio out there.
It seems that the chromax black versions do come with LGA1700 mounting, but check on that.
If, you buy the non black version that may or may not include the fittings.
If you do not have the fitting, Noctua is very good about sending you the needed parts.
https://www.alza.sk/EN/noctua-nh-d15s-chromax-black-d6319247.htm

For games, 16gb of ram should be sufficient.
But, I have no problem with 32gb.
DDR4 is a good way to go.
3600 speed is fine. If cas 18 is much cheaper, that is ok.
You may be paying extra for the RGB bling.

On the psu, I can not tell you the difference between the 2018 and 2021 versions.
The rm series is good. Modern graphics cards can have transient spikes in demand so it is best to overprovision the psu if you can. That may be one of the differences in the 2021 models.
Being uncertain, I would opt for the later model.
And, 850w will often not cost much more. Consider a top quality psu as a long term investment.
Seasonic focus units will be competitive. This time of year, they often go on sale.

 

[Why_Me]

Hello there,

I am currently stuck on 4790k build with an upgraded GPU (2070 Super) and am looking to build new and reuse the GPU... I am pretty much a novice at this so any advice would be highly appreciated...
I already put together a list of parts that I imagine would be good together but feel free to change out anything in a simmilar price range or please point out any incompatibilities that may come up...

Approximate Purchase Date: upcoming weeks before christmas
Budget Range: ~1000€ but is flexible if some part is really worth paying more for
System Usage from Most to Least Important: primarily gaming (BF 2042, HALO Infinite etc.)

Are you buying a monitor: already have one (27" 1440p, 144hz)

Parts to Upgrade: everything apart from the GPU and peripherals

Do you need to buy OS: Yes
Please note that if you're using an OEM license of Windows, you will need a new one when buying a new motherboard.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: https://pcpartpicker.com but not everything listed there can be bought in my country so for that : https://www.alza.sk/EN/

Location: Slovakia

Parts Preferences: not really preferred brands but I would probably go down the alder lake road

Overclocking: Maybe ( when I can get my hands on better cooler)

SLI or Crossfire: No

Your Monitor Resolution: 1440p

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: My current CPU 4790k just isn´t enough anymore as more and more games can utilize more than 4 cores and I can feel lots of stuttering...

What I put together:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor | €342.90 @ Alza
CPU Cooler | ARCTIC Freezer i35 A-RGB CPU Cooler | €50.90 @ Alza
Motherboard | MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard | €209.90 @ Alza
Memory | Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory | €158.90 @ Alza
Storage | Kingston A2000 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €95.90 @ Alza
Case | Corsair 4000D Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case | €94.90 @ Alza
Power Supply | Corsair RMx (2018) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €101.90 @ Alza
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €1055.30
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-12-05 13:50 CET+0100 |

some comments/questions to those parts :

the CPU cooler, the freezer i35 is currently the only viable choice I think that I can get my hands on for a reasonable price, from some reviews I watched on youtube it seems like it can cool the 12600k just enough but I will probably upgrade to an 240mm aio in a few months when those will come with 1700 mounting kit included, so this is just a temporary solution

don´t know much about motherboards but is this one from MSI allright? does it lack any important features?

for the PSU there is not much to ask but they have a 2018 and 2021 model but the 2018 one is ~25€ less... is there anything better about the 2021 model?

Good build other than I'd go with a 240mm AIO for that cpu. If you need to cut cost in order to fit one of those coolers in your build than I'd look at this case which will need a 120mm 4-pin exhaust fan.

https://www.alza.sk/EN/phanteks-eclipse-p360a-tempered-glass-d-rgb-black-d6236576.htm
Phanteks Eclipse P360A 75.90 €

https://www.alza.sk/EN/arctic-p12-pwm-120mm-d5524594.htm
ARCTIC P12 PWM 120mm 5.80 €

https://www.phanteks.com/Eclipse-P360A.html

Another and cheaper option would be a B660 board + i5 12400F or i7 12700F which are due out next month.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...aster-than-the-ryzen-5-5600x-and-100-cheaper/

https://www.techpowerup.com/289216/...cessors-arrive-mid-jan-possible-specs-surface

 

[doglatemlive55]

Your list is reasonable and will work.

I have some thoughts:

I have a MSI Z690-A in the works for a 12900K build.
It certainly is a decently priced unit without the RGB "bling" which I do not want.
Reading forums and such, there are a few minor issues that will soon be corrected by a motherboard bios update.
I am not worried.

To allow the best turbo performance on the 12600K you want a very good cooler.
While the AF cooler will let you run, I think you are a bit short sighted and should buy a top cooler up front. Also, be careful that any cooler you buy includes a lga1700 mounting capability.
Cooler makers will offer such kits nominally priced, or for free.
But, older stock may not include the needed fittings.
My suggestion would be a Noctua NH-D15s which will cool as well as any 280 aio out there.
It seems that the chromax black versions do come with LGA1700 mounting, but check on that.
If, you buy the non black version that may or may not include the fittings.
If you do not have the fitting, Noctua is very good about sending you the needed parts.
https://www.alza.sk/EN/noctua-nh-d15s-chromax-black-d6319247.htm

For games, 16gb of ram should be sufficient.
But, I have no problem with 32gb.
DDR4 is a good way to go.
3600 speed is fine. If cas 18 is much cheaper, that is ok.
You may be paying extra for the RGB bling.

On the psu, I can not tell you the difference between the 2018 and 2021 versions.
The rm series is good. Modern graphics cards can have transient spikes in demand so it is best to overprovision the psu if you can. That may be one of the differences in the 2021 models.
Being uncertain, I would opt for the later model.
And, 850w will often not cost much more. Consider a top quality psu as a long term investment.
Seasonic focus units will be competitive. This time of year, they often go on sale.

could you go a little more in detail about the issues with the motherboard? thinking about flashing a BIOS makes me anxious as I have never done it before and if something goes wrong I may screw up the board ( but most likely it is just the stress talking and would manage to update the bios just fine )

as I was reading through other comments here I started doubting if the 12600k is a way to go as it may be a better idea to futureproof the system a little by going the 12700k or kf way so that if in future I would want to upgrade the GPU ( if the prices will ever get to normal that is) it would probably be better to have an 8core also with games getting better at utilizing more cores, I put together a new list which I´ll post lower in the thread...

as I put together the 12700k list I decided to go for 16gigs of cl16 3600mhz ram as you suggested to keep the price in order and if needed I can easily upgrade that to 32gigs in a half a year or so if it would be needed

and lastly the psu... I think you may be right with futureproofing it and getting the 850w and as for the 2018/2021 versions after some research it doesn´t seem that there is much of a difference apart from maybe a slightly better efficiency and the 2021 version being quiter but 850w 2021 model goes for 160€ so I decided for the 2018 (136€)

 

[doglatemlive55]

So now I am once again unsure if the 12600k is a way to go and decided to put together a 12700k list, looks like this:


PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | Intel Core i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12-Core Processor | €483.90 @ Alza
CPU Cooler | MSI MAG CORE LIQUID 240R 78.73 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler | €108.90 @ Alza
Motherboard | MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard | €209.90 @ Alza
Memory | Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory | €90.90 @ Alza
Storage | Kingston A2000 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €95.90 @ Alza
Case | Corsair 275R Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case | €69.90 @ Alza
Power Supply | Corsair RMx (2018) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €136.90 @ Alza
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €1196.30
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-12-05 20:07 CET+0100 |

to save some money I decreased the ram to 16gigs of the same spec cl 16 3600mhz (can upgrade that later)
switched out the psu for 850w to futureproof
and added an 240 mm aio that has a alder lake mounting kit available without any long waiting times : https://www.alza.sk/EN/msi-water-cooler-mounting-reducer-for-lga1700-socket-d6796908.htm

although I am not entirely sure about this exact aio is it any good? didn´t really find too many reviews like from gamersnexus and such...

and yes it is 1200€ but I have a chance to buy without VAT so the price I would actually pay for this is 1002€

 

[doglatemlive55]

Good build other than I'd go with a 240mm AIO for that cpu. If you need to cut cost in order to fit one of those coolers in your build than I'd look at this case which will need a 120mm 4-pin exhaust fan.

https://www.alza.sk/EN/phanteks-eclipse-p360a-tempered-glass-d-rgb-black-d6236576.htm
Phanteks Eclipse P360A 75.90 €

https://www.alza.sk/EN/arctic-p12-pwm-120mm-d5524594.htm
ARCTIC P12 PWM 120mm 5.80 €

https://www.phanteks.com/Eclipse-P360A.html

Another and cheaper option would be a B660 board + i5 12400F or i7 12700F which are due out next month.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...aster-than-the-ryzen-5-5600x-and-100-cheaper/

https://www.techpowerup.com/289216/...cessors-arrive-mid-jan-possible-specs-surface

looked into the case and I really liked it until I discovered that it does not have a proper dust filter... the computer will be in my bedroom and it is pretty dusty in here so I don´t think that would be the best idea.... instead I found this one :

https://www.alza.sk/EN/corsair-275r-tempered-glass-black-d5677789.htm

doesn´t look as good but should be suffiecient(?)

also chceck the new part list above please

 

[geofelt]

Lots of questions:

Some answers:
On the msi Z690-A-PRO motherboard, the main issue seems to be that wake from sleep does not always work. MSI is aware of this and has a Beta bios available for a fix. It is beta because it has not yet passed all of the required tests.
Motherboards will come with the latest bios available at the time of manufacture, so this issue may be moot.
Any other Z690 motherboard is likely to have minor issues at launch time.
Updating the bios should be simple. The motherboard has a bios flash button the back.
You put a usb stick with the new bios in a usb port and push the button.
It is not clear, but you may not even need a cpu installed.

If budget is an issue, look at the I5-12600K for gaming.
Gaming depends mostly on the single thread performance of the cpu.
The i5-12600K single thread passmark rating is exactly the same as the 12700K.
The difference is that the 12600K has 6 performance cores, each with hyperthreading making 8 threads. it also has 4 E or efficiency threads which I think are comparable to your current processor.
Few games today can (effectively) make use of more than 4-6 threads.
What you would get with the 12700K would be 2 additional P cores, That is good if your usage involved heavy batch processing that can use many threads.

Also, try to buy a K suffix processor with internal graphics capability.
It is most useful for testing and will get you started if you can't find a graphics card initially.

I would not buy that MSI 240 aio cooler for a few reasons:
That cooler has the pump in the radiator which seems to cause problems.
AIO coolers do not last forever. In time air intrudes and they need to be replaced.
AIO coolers tend to be noisier, less reliable, harder to install and more expensive than a good air cooler. And... while uncommon, liquid coolers can leak with disastrous consequences.

I would suggest the noctua NH-D15s chromax black which will cool equally well, and comes withlga1700 mounting:
https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-d1...e7yMKZMfMPgAN8-T-hkaAshHEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Cases are a personal thing.
Looks count because you will be looking at it for a long time.
I see nothing wrong with the corsair 275R

 

[doglatemlive55]

Lots of questions:

Some answers:
On the msi Z690-A-PRO motherboard, the main issue seems to be that wake from sleep does not always work. MSI is aware of this and has a Beta bios available for a fix. It is beta because it has not yet passed all of the required tests.
Motherboards will come with the latest bios available at the time of manufacture, so this issue may be moot.
Any other Z690 motherboard is likely to have minor issues at launch time.
Updating the bios should be simple. The motherboard has a bios flash button the back.
You put a usb stick with the new bios in a usb port and push the button.
It is not clear, but you may not even need a cpu installed.

If budget is an issue, look at the I5-12600K for gaming.
Gaming depends mostly on the single thread performance of the cpu.
The i5-12600K single thread passmark rating is exactly the same as the 12700K.
The difference is that the 12600K has 6 performance cores, each with hyperthreading making 8 threads. it also has 4 E or efficiency threads which I think are comparable to your current processor.
Few games today can (effectively) make use of more than 4-6 threads.
What you would get with the 12700K would be 2 additional P cores, That is good if your usage involved heavy batch processing that can use many threads.

Also, try to buy a K suffix processor with internal graphics capability.
It is most useful for testing and will get you started if you can't find a graphics card initially.

I would not buy that MSI 240 aio cooler for a few reasons:
That cooler has the pump in the radiator which seems to cause problems.
AIO coolers do not last forever. In time air intrudes and they need to be replaced.
AIO coolers tend to be noisier, less reliable, harder to install and more expensive than a good air cooler. And... while uncommon, liquid coolers can leak with disastrous consequences.

I would suggest the noctua NH-D15s chromax black which will cool equally well, and comes withlga1700 mounting:
https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-d1...e7yMKZMfMPgAN8-T-hkaAshHEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Cases are a personal thing.
Looks count because you will be looking at it for a long time.
I see nothing wrong with the corsair 275R

sorry about that, but you really helped me so thank you man, really apreciatted
really seems to only be a minor issue with the board so I guess I will stick with it as you suggested

yeah the price difference between the K and KF version of the cpus is really not that big so I guess it is a good thing to have the option to have an igpu if ( god forbid) my gpu dies so I will be sticking to the K version

swapped out the aio for the nhd 15 chromax black which as I found out should already come with the mounting kit so should be fine

as for the 12700k vs 12600k the price difference if I take 12700k with 16 gigs of ram or 12600k with 32 gigs is approximately 50€ so I am gonna think it throught and I´ll see but kinda keen to get the 12700k fto be a little future proof as I would like to keep the system for at least 3 years....

one more thing I would like to ask though, what do you think of the NVME? is there any reason it´s aprroximately 50€ less than lets say a samsung 970 evo plus or simmilar?

 

[geofelt]

sorry about that, but you really helped me so thank you man, really apreciatted
really seems to only be a minor issue with the board so I guess I will stick with it as you suggested

yeah the price difference between the K and KF version of the cpus is really not that big so I guess it is a good thing to have the option to have an igpu if ( god forbid) my gpu dies so I will be sticking to the K version

swapped out the aio for the nhd 15 chromax black which as I found out should already come with the mounting kit so should be fine

as for the 12700k vs 12600k the price difference if I take 12700k with 16 gigs of ram or 12600k with 32 gigs is approximately 50€ so I am gonna think it throught and I´ll see but kinda keen to get the 12700k fto be a little future proof as I would like to keep the system for at least 3 years....

one more thing I would like to ask though, what do you think of the NVME? is there any reason it´s aprroximately 50€ less than lets say a samsung 970 evo plus or simmilar?

I referenced the NH-D15s chromax black because it is a high compatibility version of the NH-D15.
It is designed to clear tall ram heat spreaders.
visit the noctua site for more info and compatibility charts.

One difference is that the samsung 980 will have a 5 year warranty vs. 3 for many other ssd devices.
No problems on a C drive are very important to me.
The specs on the samsung are better,
https://www.newegg.com/samsung-1tb-980/p/N82E16820147804?quicklink=true

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

In total, all ssd devices are good performers.
You probably could not tell the difference between sata, pcie devices.
Here is an amusing video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKLA7w9eeA