[SOLVED] After Cloning Simple Questions

oldbutslow

Distinguished
Mar 23, 2011
39
1
18,545
1
I am in the process of a new build. I am cloning my samsung 1 TB 860 evo to a 1 TB samsung 980 NvME.
1. Can I use the evo as a "hot" backup after selecting the 980 as the boot drive?
2..Can i still use the EVO as is or do I have to reformat it?
3 Can I clone it again to a WD 500 GB HDD as a "hot" backup and then reformat the 1TB evo.
4. Can I still use the EVO with WIn 10 in my old computer?
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
1. You can use it as whatever you want, but what you want to avoid is having both drives permanently attached to the system if you are leaving the OS installation on the 860 EVO. It's a potential for causing boot conflicts due to multiple boot and EFI partitions even if one drive is set to the boot drive, which is unlikely. Generally the Windows "boot manager" is what you will have set as the primary boot device, not any specific "drive" or partition that you've otherwise manually selected. If that is what you were asking.

If you do not plan to leave the OS installation on there after the installation then you can otherwise use it in any way you see fit but you will first want to use a partition manager like Paragon partition manager pro free community edition to remove ALL partitions, including any hidden partitions, from that drive AFTER you have validated that the clone operation was successful.

"Reformatting" is not what you need to do, at least, not primarily. You need to remove ALL partitions from that drive using a 3rd party utility (Because Windows disk management likely won't allow you to modify partitions on that drive since they will still look like the protected Windows partitions to the utility) and THEN create one new standard partition for that drive and format it.

#3, I don't even know what that is asking to be honest.

#4, see these.

And as far as the actual clone procedure goes, this.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/will-nvme-work-with-an-adapter-on-my-old-motherboard.3654722/#post-22018099
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
1. You can use it as whatever you want, but what you want to avoid is having both drives permanently attached to the system if you are leaving the OS installation on the 860 EVO. It's a potential for causing boot conflicts due to multiple boot and EFI partitions even if one drive is set to the boot drive, which is unlikely. Generally the Windows "boot manager" is what you will have set as the primary boot device, not any specific "drive" or partition that you've otherwise manually selected. If that is what you were asking.

If you do not plan to leave the OS installation on there after the installation then you can otherwise use it in any way you see fit but you will first want to use a partition manager like Paragon partition manager pro free community edition to remove ALL partitions, including any hidden partitions, from that drive AFTER you have validated that the clone operation was successful.

"Reformatting" is not what you need to do, at least, not primarily. You need to remove ALL partitions from that drive using a 3rd party utility (Because Windows disk management likely won't allow you to modify partitions on that drive since they will still look like the protected Windows partitions to the utility) and THEN create one new standard partition for that drive and format it.

#3, I don't even know what that is asking to be honest.

#4, see these.

And as far as the actual clone procedure goes, this.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/will-nvme-work-with-an-adapter-on-my-old-motherboard.3654722/#post-22018099
 
1. Yes, I did exactly that.
Also, install the samsung nvme drivers.
I kept the old ssd as a point in time backup to reduce rebuild time if I ever needed that.

2. No sense in doing that. if the evo is installed on the new pc. You already have a duplicate on the C drive.
You can, if you wish, leave the evo installed and simply delete files or reformat it.

3. Two problems. The samsung ssd migration app will not work with a wd ssd; only to supported samsung devices. Second problem is that the used space on the source must fit on the target drive. in time, 500gb may not be enough.

4. Your old evo is still good on the old pc.
On the new pc, you will need to buy a second windows license.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013
139,233
7,425
166,440
21,430
I am in the process of a new build. I am cloning my samsung 1 TB 860 evo to a 1 TB samsung 980 NvME.
1. Can I use the evo as a "hot" backup after selecting the 980 as the boot drive?
2..Can i still use the EVO as is or do I have to reformat it?
3 Can I clone it again to a WD 500 GB HDD as a "hot" backup and then reformat the 1TB evo.
4. Can I still use the EVO with WIn 10 in my old computer?
  1. Yes. But that is somewhat counterproductive. A "hot spare" is something that is always connected, ready for near instant failover. In a regular consumer system, having 2x mostly identical and bootable OS's can lead to issues. But you can do it.
  2. No, you don't have to format it. But since the entire contents were migrated to the new drive, why keep that stuff on the 860?
  3. If space considerations fit, yes
  4. No. You now have 2 systems and 1 OS license. Plus, moving that drive+OS to a new system may not work at all.
 

oldbutslow

Distinguished
Mar 23, 2011
39
1
18,545
1
Thanks all for your input. This is what I will do.
  1. clone the EVO to the samsung 980.
  2. do the windows activation thing.
  3. clone the EVO to my 250 GB HDD and remove it. If the 980 fails, It will be reinstalled and used as a boot drive.
  4. wait a couple weeks, repartition the EVO and reformat.
We all good with that?
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013
139,233
7,425
166,440
21,430
Thanks all for your input. This is what I will do.
  1. clone the EVO to the samsung 980.
  2. do the windows activation thing.
  3. clone the EVO to my 250 GB HDD and remove it. If the 980 fails, It will be reinstalled and used as a boot drive.
  4. wait a couple weeks, repartition the EVO and reformat.
We all good with that?
There should be no activation issues.
You're just moving the whole install over to a new drive. Activation and all.

But yes, all that is correct.
 
Reactions: oldbutslow
I assume that your new build will be a replacement, not an added pc.
That was not entirely clear in your initial post.

1. A clone is a bit for bit copy. The samsung ssd migration app is a windows C drive mover which I think is a better option if available.
You can download the app and instructions here:

Also, when you install the 980, also install the samsung nvme driver.
Then move/copy to the 980.

2. When you install the 980 in your new build, it will hopefully boot.
The first thing to do is to install the new motherboard drivers which will come on a cd. (I see that msi is including usb drives now; smart)

When you try to activate, windows will detect a different motherboard and ask you for a new activation code. Windows can be activated on only one pc at a time.
In the activation process, you will have the option to say that this copy of windows has been moved.

3. Unless the used capacity of the source is less than the target, a clone is not going to work.
going from 1tb to 250gb would be a problem.
Past that, you will need a clone utility like macrium reflect to clone to a HDD. The samsung app only works with samsung DDS devices.
If you want, just keep the original 1tb 860 aside in case anything goes wrong.
In time, when you need more space, either use it or buy added storage.

4. Just use your HDD for bulk storage of sequential files such as videos.
It might not be big enough to serve as a backup device. But, backups can be compressed so attaching the hdd via a usb adapter may work, giving you external backup.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
I've had several occasions when, for whatever reason, the Samsung utility did not want to work even cloning from Samsung drive to Samsung drive, but Macrium DID. So I don't even bother with the Samsung cloning or migration utility anymore since Macrium works perfectly fine for all drives, that I've seen anyhow. If the Samsung tool works for you, then great, that is probably the best first option but on several occasions it did not, and would not, work for me, so out the window it goes.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013
139,233
7,425
166,440
21,430
I've had several occasions when, for whatever reason, the Samsung utility did not want to work even cloning from Samsung drive to Samsung drive, but Macrium DID. So I don't even bother with the Samsung cloning or migration utility anymore since Macrium works perfectly fine for all drives, that I've seen anyhow. If the Samsung tool works for you, then great, that is probably the best first option but on several occasions it did not, and would not, work for me, so out the window it goes.
Had one like that yesterday here.

Several attempts with SDM, nothing. No boot.
Switch to Macrium? Poof, done.
 
Reactions: Darkbreeze
There are some limitations to the utility.
It is a logical device mover and depends on a good source.

If the source has more than three volumes for instance, the move will not work.
Or if the source is damaged.
Chipset drivers may need to be updated.
For nvme drives, the samsung nvme driver should be installed.
There are about 20 limitations listed in the manual.
Most do not apply.

A bit for bit clone will bypass such issues.
But, if the migration aid has an issue, it is a red flag that there may be underlying issues with the source that should be investigated.
 

oldbutslow

Distinguished
Mar 23, 2011
39
1
18,545
1
Your scaring me. I thought this was going to be simple. This is a new build using the old computers boot drive for cloning to the 980. Last build was 2011 (intel i7 2600k), When I clone it to the 500 GB HDD as a backup, I will uninstall games , etc to insure it fits. I saw a Macrium video that shows how to clone drives of different memory sizes. New Build:
AMD rysien 7 5800x
MSI MAG x570 Tomahawk MB
1 TB Samsung NvME 980 SSD as C Drive
4 TB WD HDD music Drive
1 TB Samsung EVO Cloner (word?) SSD
Nvidia GTX 1080ti
32 GB Gskill nero Z pc3600 cas 14
Internal Pioneer Blu ray drive
Lian LI II cool mesh case
Seasonic prime platinum PSU

GPU connected to Pioneer prepro via HDMI
monitor is a LG OLED c67 TV

Wireless mouse and keyboard

Still need to figure out how to install internal blu ray drive in lian li case.
 

oldbutslow

Distinguished
Mar 23, 2011
39
1
18,545
1
I am really hoping that the clone works, because a new install and reinstalling the programs is a days work and a pain the butt. If I do a new install, is there a way where i would not have to reinstall the programs and their passwords/activation keys?
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013
139,233
7,425
166,440
21,430
I am really hoping that the clone works, because a new install and reinstalling the programs is a days work and a pain the butt. If I do a new install, is there a way where i would not have to reinstall the programs and their passwords/activation keys?
With all new hardware and old OS (which is what this is), there are 3 possible outcomes:
  1. It works just fine
  2. It fails completely
  3. It "works", but you're chasing issues for weeks/months.
I've seen all 3. Increasingly, #3 is the most common.
And a clone of the old drive is no different than moving the old physical drive.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY