Air or AIO cooling, which would be quieter?

[vwcrusher]

Given the same thermal load in a FD Define R6 case, with CPU, RAM and GPU mildly overclocked, which style cooler will end up being quieter with case on desk top?

Intended use is video editing and gaming.

Below is a preliminary parts list:

Thanks

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/qRDvYT
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/qRDvYT/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($530.00)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.69 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($191.11 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($226.99 @ Newegg Business)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($0.00)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($0.00)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($0.00)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB FTW Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card ($0.00)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R6 Black TG ATX Mid Tower Case ($144.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($90.00)
Monitor: LG - 34UM59-B 34.0" 2560x1080 75 Hz Monitor ($0.00)
Total: $1273.08
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-12 18:39 EST-0500

 

[asoroka]

I don't think that you will notice the difference.
Your GPU will generate a lot of noise under load.

Speaking of which, you should look at a 1080 rather than the 1070 for that CPU. In fact you would be better off with a cheaper CPU and better GPU.

A Noctua NH-D15 will give you quiet performance.

 

[Aeacus]

When it comes to the noise, AIOs are noisier since besides air passing through closely packed rad fins and generating a lot of noise, there's also pump on CPU which also creates noise. And if you're unlucky, you'll even get trapped air bubbles noise within AIO. With air coolers and heatsink fins not being so tightly packed, there's less (if any) noise for air passing through the heatsink. And without additional noise generating factors, air coolers are far quieter than AIOs, especially when both are running at max RPM.

While NH-D15 is king of air coolers, it's color theme is either love or hate. Most people dislike the brown/beige color theme. Due to this, i've suggested getting Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 instead. While being 1-2°C short of NH-D15, it's classy black colors are far more pleasing to the eye,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-3-cpu-cooler,4350.html
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/9bFPxr/be-quiet-cpu-cooler-bk019

Oh, big-sized air coolers (e.g NH-D15 or Dark Rock Pro 3), are on-par with AIOs when it comes to the cooling since in the end, both (air coolers and AIOs) are cooled by ambient air. Here's a good article about NH-D15 vs 5x high-end AIOs,
link: http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

 

[vwcrusher]

When it comes to the noise, AIOs are noisier since besides air passing through closely packed rad fins and generating a lot of noise, there's also pump on CPU which also creates noise. And if you're unlucky, you'll even get trapped air bubbles noise within AIO. With air coolers and heatsink fins not being so tightly packed, there's less (if any) noise for air passing through the heatsink. And without additional noise generating factors, air coolers are far quieter than AIOs, especially when both are running at max RPM.

While NH-D15 is king of air coolers, it's color theme is either love or hate. Most people dislike the brown/beige color theme. Due to this, i've suggested getting Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 instead. While being 1-2°C short of NH-D15, it's classy black colors are far more pleasing to the eye,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-3-cpu-cooler,4350.html
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/9bFPxr/be-quiet-cpu-cooler-bk019

Oh, big-sized air coolers (e.g NH-D15 or Dark Rock Pro 3), are on-par with AIOs when it comes to the cooling since in the end, both (air coolers and AIOs) are cooled by ambient air. Here's a good article about NH-D15 vs 5x high-end AIOs,
link: http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

Thanks very much for the concise and comprehensive reply.

Air cooling it is.....I will look into the cooler you suggested.
The one below was also suggested; your thoughts on this one would be appreciated.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/8GBrxr/scythe-mugen-5-rev-b-512-cfm-cpu-cooler-scmg-5100

 

[Aeacus]

Scythe is also decent but it's mid-sized CPU cooler while Dark Rock Pro 3 is big-sized CPU cooler, meaning that you won't get as good cooling performance with Scythe as you'd get with Be Quiet!,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/scythe-mugen-5-rev.b-cpu-cooler,5083.html

Also, at least for me, Dark Rock Pro 3 has better aesthetics because of it's unified black heatsink and fans, while Scythe has silver heatsink with gray fans.

For mid-sized CPU cooler, i'd go with Arctic Freezer 33 instead (150mm tall, no RAM clearance issue, support for push-pull, comes with semi-passive fan),
specs: https://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/freezer-33.html
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dqjWGX/arctic-freezer-33-cpu-cooler-acfre00028a

In my Skylake build (full specs with pics in my sig), i have the predecessor of Freezer 33 in use, known as Freezer i32. Since both CPU coolers include semi-passive fan, you'll have 0 dB(A) noise output on low CPU loads. For me, the stock semi-passive fan didn't turn at all until my CPU reached 52°C. And when the fan started to spin, it was very quiet due to the fluid-dynamic bearing. Highest what i saw out of my i5-6600K was 55°C during CinebenchR15 while my CPU idles at 26°C.
Performance wise, Arctic Freezer 33 and i32 have the same cooling performance. Only difference between them is that Freezer i32 only has Intel mounting bracket while Freezer 33 comes with Intel and AMD AM4 mounting brackets.
Freezer i32 review: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/arctic-freezer-i32-cooler,review-33860.html

Or if you want the CPU cooler to match your build theme, you can go with the colored version of Freezer 33 eSports,
single fan, specs: https://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/freezer-33-esports-one.html
single fan, pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/sVYLrH,yHNv6h,dGfhP6,P8KcCJ/

dual fan, specs: https://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/freezer-33-esports-edition.html
dual fan, pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/F7fmP6,3r38TW,RDDzK8,9Vhj4D/
dual fan, review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/arctic-freezer-33-esports-edition-cpu-cooler,5422.html

 

[Dragos Manea]

Some people dont like hanging 1Kg of aluminium of their motehrboard especially when you move the case frequently so thats why AIO have become a popular solution, because the weight is supported by the case and not by the motherboard. I would vote for AIO even if it is a bit noisier i dont like hanging that much weight on my motherboard.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

Other coolers to consider : thermalright grand macho rt, cryorig r1, be quiet dark rock pro 4.

If you can spend a bit more, you can always use a better fan from noctua or control the speed of the aio fans/have custom fan speed curve with bios control instead of plugging the fans into the aio fan headers.

Usually, the fans get noisier above 1500rpm. Check out reviews of fans, aio in YouTube. Reviews always have acoustics test with fan speed and noise level in dB.

 

[vwcrusher]

Thanks for the comments and guidance, guys. So it sounds like if the best balance between cooling capacity and noise is concerned the Noctua NH-D15 wins, but its not the best look.

@Aeacus, The cooler I noted is good, but not enough capacity for the 9900K, if I understand correctly?

Please keep in mind one of the reasons for choosing the FD Define R6 was the open design and highly regarded cooling and noise suppression....does this factor in choosing the type of cooler?

@Dragos, I too was concerned about the weight of the air cooler, and it turns out that the MB choses (see parts list) has a metal backing plate to mitigate that particular issue.

I noticed that the be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 3 and 4 were recommended; is there any difference, or is the 4 just and updated 3?

 

[Dragos Manea]

Yes i know they have a backplate but one myself i move my case frequently so even with backplate there are risks involved.

 

[Aeacus]

CPU
i9-9900K has TDP of 95W while on full load (CPU running all cores and threads at the all-core turbo frequency), CPU can consume up to 164.48W (source). While Arctic Freezer 33 is mid-sized CPU cooler, it's TDP is up to 150W with max cooling performance of 320W. Freezer 33 eSports has TDP up to 200W with max cooling performance of 320W as well.

Note: better CPU cooler will give you only higher ceiling on CPU OC while on no load or low load, CPU coolers give you the same idle temp. E.g you could OC i9-9900K with Freezer 33 up to e.g 4.8 Ghz Ghz while with Dark Rock Pro 3, you can go up to 5 Ghz without CPU thermal throttle. The source link above also contains i9-9900K OC results (page 22) while CPU was cooled by Thermalright True Copper air cooler.

Dark Rock Pro
Tom's Hardware also did a review of Dark Rock Pro 4 with comparison to the predecessor, Dark Rock Pro 3,
link: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-cpu-cooler,5559.html

To put it short: Dark Rock Pro 4 has less cooling performance than Dark Rock Pro 3 since it's 2nd fan's max RPM is capped from 2000 RPM to 1500 RPM. But due to the RPM cap, it's also quieter on max fan RPM.
In other words, you can get the same level of cooling performance and noise with Dark Rock Pro 3 as you'd get with Dark Rock Pro 4 if you keep it's 2nd fan at 1500 RPM. But you can not get the same level of cooling performance vice-versa. Hence why i suggest Dark Rock Pro 3 and not Dark Rock Pro 4.

About moving the PC. If a person needs his PC to be with him at all times, get a laptop. Laptops are designed to be portable while desktop PCs are not. But when moving (changing living location), i'd disassemble my PC quite a bit before personally moving it. Also, lifting the PC to and from the table to service it (if PC is located on the table), doesn't hurt the MoBo when having big-sized CPU cooler in it. Provided that you take good care of your PC and you're gentle lifting it.

AIO vs air cooling
As far as AIOs vs air coolers go, there's no gain in cooling performance if using AIO over air cooler since both are cooled by ambient air. (For equal cooling performance between AIOs and air coolers, rad needs to be 240mm or 280mm.)
Here are the positive sides of both CPU cooling methods:

Pros of air coolers:
less cost
less maintenance
less noise
far longer longevity
no leakage risks
doesn't take up case fan slots
additional cooling for the RAM
cools down faster after heavy heat output

Pros of AIOs:
no RAM clearance issues*
no CPU clearance issues
takes longer time to heat up during heavy heat output
* on some cases, top mounted rad can give RAM clearance issues

While how the CPU cooler looks inside the PC depends on a person. Some people prefer to see small AIO pump in the middle of their MoBo with tubing going to the rad while others prefer to see big heatsink with fans in the middle of their MoBo.

Personally, i'd go with air coolers every day of the week. With same cooling performance, the pros of air coolers outweigh the pros of AIOs considerably. While, for me, the 3 main pros would be:
1. Less noise.
Since i like my PC to be quiet, i can't stand the loud noise AIO makes. Also, when air gets trapped inside the AIO (some AIOs are more prone to this than others), there's additional noise coming from inside the pump.
2. Longevity.
Cheaper AIOs usually last 2-3 years and high-end ones 4-5 years before you need to replace it. While with air coolers, their life expectancy is basically unlimited. Only thing that can go bad on an air cooler is the fan on it. If the fan dies, your CPU still has cooling in form of a big heatsink. Also, new 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't cost much and it's easy to replace one. While with AIOs, the main thing that usually goes bad is the pump itself. And when that happens, your CPU has no cooling whatsoever. Since you can't replace pump on an AIO, you need to buy whole new AIO to replace the old one out.
3. No leakage risks.
Since there's liquid circling inside the AIO, there is always a risk that your AIO can leak. While it's rare, it has happened. It's well known fact that liquids and electronics don't mix.

 

[vwcrusher]

Just happen to read the very end of the review of the i9-9900K in Tom's (see link below). The sentences that concerned me regarding air cooling were these: "This would dissuade us from air cooling, even if the Intel Core i9-9900K should not be overclocked any further. The 4.7 GHz all-core and a constant load are quite sufficient to make air cooling absurd."

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-9900k-9th-gen-cpu,5847-12.html

If this is the case perhaps we have to seriously consider AIO cooling, even with a mild overclock?
If so can you please recommend a unit that will do the job, and also (new factor) it would be great if it has some RGB as the case will be on his desk.

Thanks again.

 

[Aeacus]

While Intel has improved the thermal paste within the CPU quite a bit by replacing it with solder, it's not the best it can be. With CPU delidding, you can decrease the i9-9900K peak core temperatures under a heavy overclocked load from 4°C to 8°C, making air cooling possible option for overclocked i9-9900K,
further reading: https://siliconlottery.com/collections/all/products/delid

For $80, you can get CPU delidding + binning or for $60 CPU delidding only.
Dealing with CPU OC, every gain in temperature decrease is crucial, especially when you have naturally hot running CPU in use.

Let's look at the data in the review:
i9-9900K in Prime95, cooled by Corsair H100i - 57°C average
i9-9900K @ 4.7 Ghz in Prime95, cooled by Corsair H100i - 90°C average

With CPU delidded, you'd get 4°C to 8°C lower temps, making average temps in Prime95 with stock clocks 49°C to 54°C and @ 4.7 Ghz, 82°C to 86°C when cooled with H100i. Also, according to the Noctua vs 5x AIOs review, H100i has the same cooling performance as NH-D15, where only X61 Kraken has better cooling performance.

Here, it's up to you. You started this topic to get quieter CPU cooler for your i9-9900K with no words about OC'ing your CPU. I already gave you that answer. Now, you're talking about CPU OC. If you want to get 4.7 Ghz on all cores at all times with best possible cooling (since H100i / NH-D15 would make CPU thermal throttle in Prime95 @ 4.7 Ghz), delid your CPU and go with NZXT x61 Kraken. Or better yet, it's successor x62 Kraken (king of AIOs),
specs: https://www.nzxt.com/products/kraken-x62
review: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8109/nzxt-kraken-x62-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index.html
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/2RdFf7/nzxt-kraken-x62-rev-2-982-cfm-liquid-cpu-cooler-rl-krx62-02

Note: with x62 Kraken, you'll get best cooling for your CPU and also a lot more eyecandy since it has addressable LEDs on the pump which you can control via NZXT CAM. But you also will get more noise when running your fans at 100%, just to get best cooling possible.

However, if you're still after reducing the noise coming out of your current H100i where's CPU temps would remain same, go with NH-D15. Or delid the CPU and go with Dark Rock Pro 3 for better eyecandy over NH-D15 with less noise than H100i and still same temps as with H100i.

Btw, 4.7 Ghz is quite high OC for i9-9900K since it's stock clock is 3.6 Ghz. Mild OC would be 4 Ghz and at that OC level, air cooling is still viable.
Oh, one more thing. CPU OC decreases CPU lifespan. The higher the OC - the shorter the CPU lifespan is. For example: with stock CPU clocks (3.6 Ghz), CPU can easily last 10 years or so, while with 4.1 Ghz, CPU would last about 5 years and at 4.7 Ghz, only 1-2 years.

 

[vwcrusher]

Thanks for the reply @Aeacus, For the record I did mention in the initial post that we intended to mildly overclock, but it sounds like we could still use the air cooler you suggested or go with the Corsair H100i, again given 'mild overclocking.'

What are your thoughts on this one, for performance and noise?

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/WwjJ7P/cooler-master-masterliquid-ml360r-rgb-667-cfm-liquid-cpu-cooler-mlx-d36m-a20pc-r1

And again, I do appreciate your taking the time to provide guidance.

 

[Aeacus]

Well, it's a fancy looking AIO and since it has 360mm rad, it offers better cooling than x72 Kraken with it's 280mm rad,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/coolermaster-masterliquid-ml360r-rgb,5736.html

Noise wise, it's even worse than x72 Kraken (review, page 2). Though, that's the scale with PC cooling. On one scale you have noise and on another, you have airflow. You can't get great airflow with minimal noise, especially when using AIOs.

To put it short: if you want best cooling and eyecandy (RGB LED), go with ML360R RGB. If you want the least noise with good enough cooling, go with NH-D15/ Dark Rock Pro 3 and also delid the CPU to get the temps even more down when running air cooling.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

^ or like i said, u can experiment with custom fan curves for the aio cooling.

 

[vwcrusher]

Yikes, this is getting complex.....perhaps not overclocking the 9900K is the way to go, or given value consider the 2700X....enough to pull my hair out...lol.

The goal was to put a system together for Premiere Pro (live edit in particular) and some gaming. From all the reports and testing that I have seen, the 9900K is the fastest. However, it is expensive and hot....the trade offs are: functionality (live edit and some gaming), reliability (including heat dissipation), and cost.

With the 2700X, it is not as fast for live edit, but less expensive and easier to cool. Plus from what I understand, the MB, RAM will be reusable for the next gen CPU.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

well, if u r reconsidering :

for a 75hz monitor, and if u can stretch ur budget to $1500, this is the best cpu horse power u get :

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1950X 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($599.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Enermax - LIQTECH TR4 II 360 102.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($151.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME X399-A EATX TR4 Motherboard ($299.95 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($269.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($0.00)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($0.00)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($0.00)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB FTW Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card ($0.00)
Case: Lian-Li - LANCOOL ONE DIGITAL ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.84 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx (2018) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: LG - 34UM59-B 34.0" 2560x1080 75 Hz Monitor ($0.00)
Total: $1481.75
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-15 10:34 EST-0500

obviously this is will be a bit slow in live edit, but in rendering tasks it will blow away the 9900k cuz of twice the cores and quad channel memory.
i mean, if u r ready to settle down for a 2700X and if u can spend a bit more, y not go for the threadripper?

 

[vwcrusher]

Thanks for the suggestion, but in actuality we seriously considered the Threadripper, but after some investigation found that it just didn't do live edit as well as the 9900k and was more expensive. My friend cares more about live edit than rendering speed.

This got us back to the 9900K...and where we are....lol

After more discussion, the current decision is to stay with the 9900K and not overclock it initially.....when he is ready to buy, we will decide on the type of cooling.

Thanks to all who contributed and tried to help out....much appreciated.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

Can I just suggest you to go for the coolermaster ML360R aio? That's the best performing aio in the market now.

 

[vwcrusher]

Can I just suggest you to go for the coolermaster ML360R aio? That's the best performing aio in the market now.

Thanks for the urging....especially since that is what we are going to do.
Had a talk with my friend about the whole deal, and the safest thing to do is not overclock the 9900K, and get the ML360R aio, thinking that it will run quietly since its not being pushed very hard.

Thanks!

 

[rubix_1011]

I tested the ML360R RGB for Tom's and it is the best performing AIO that we have had so far, but don't expect an AIO to be more quiet than a large air cooler, because that is almost never the case.

Also, liquid cooling pumps whether they be AIO or custom loops should never make audible noise heard from more than 2 feet away. They should hum or very quietly buzz, each of which should not be heard over normal 120mm case fans. If you can, there is something wrong.

 

[vwcrusher]

I tested the ML360R RGB for Tom's and it is the best performing AIO that we have had so far, but don't expect an AIO to be more quiet than a large air cooler, because that is almost never the case.

Also, liquid cooling pumps whether they be AIO or custom loops should never make audible noise heard from more than 2 feet away. They should hum or very quietly buzz, each of which should not be heard over normal 120mm case fans. If you can, there is something wrong.

Thanks very much for the reply.....clearly, you know this component!
As you might have noticed in this thread, my friend and I have had a tough deciding where to compromise based on his needs, i.e., performance, noise and cost. It is good to hear that this cooler will, not be as quiet as an air cooler (specified earlier), but will be 'relatively' quiet given the case will be on his desk. Our challenge was teasing through all the information available on the cooling issues with the 9900K to find a solution that provided the best balance between those variables......hopefully this cooler is that solution.

Again, thanks for the reassuring comment.

 

[rubix_1011]

You can also set fans to run on a curve based on core temperatures and PWM power, so it won't necessarily run at 100% fan speeds all the time - it can ramp up and down according to thermals.

This is where noise levels is rather subjective - not every CPU is clocked the same nor is every CPU that is overclocked (or stock) always running at 100% loads to require full fan speeds. Most PCs sit near idle for lengths at a time, while even if you are gaming, your CPU isn't 100% loaded.

 

[vwcrusher]

You can also set fans to run on a curve based on core temperatures and PWM power, so it won't necessarily run at 100% fan speeds all the time - it can ramp up and down according to thermals.

This is where noise levels is rather subjective - not every CPU is clocked the same nor is every CPU that is overclocked (or stock) always running at 100% loads to require full fan speeds. Most PCs sit near idle for lengths at a time, while even if you are gaming, your CPU isn't 100% loaded.

Thank you!

 

[rubix_1011]

You can also set fans to run on a curve based on core temperatures and PWM power, so it won't necessarily run at 100% fan speeds all the time - it can ramp up and down according to thermals.

This is where noise levels is rather subjective - not every CPU is clocked the same nor is every CPU that is overclocked (or stock) always running at 100% loads to require full fan speeds. Most PCs sit near idle for lengths at a time, while even if you are gaming, your CPU isn't 100% loaded.

Thank you!

No problem, and good luck.