Question Airflow Conundrum.

[loganwiniecke28]

As the title suggests my PC is having a BAD issue with the airflow, and I am at my wit's end to fix it. To elaborate, I recently switched cases, from a cooler master elite 130 to a new Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX. Initially when I made the switch my GPU overheated even when it idled (around 45-50C Idle and 85C - 90C under load). Immediately I chalked this up to bad airflow, so to mitigate it I installed a bigger front intake fan (200mm), got an SFX PSU, and replace my old HDD with an SSD so I could remove my HDD cage. All this combined made my idle temps shrink down to 38C - 40C, however under load the issue still persists. At this point, I really don't know what to do next, and I am trying to AVOID replacing the case as much as possible.
I hope someone can help me. Thanks for reading.

My Spec.
CPU - Ryzen 5 1600
Cooler - EVGA water cooler 240mm
RAM - 16gb DDR4
GPU - GTX 1070ti 8gb VRAM ZOTAC Mini
PSU - Corsair SF600
Storage - 250gb M.2 SSD WD & Samsung 1tb SSD
Fans - 120mm exhaust & 200mm intake.
Motherboard - Gigabyte B350n Gaming WIFI AM4.

 

[loganwiniecke28]

Perhaps if I found the exact clip somewhere online I could extend by getting a male to male one.

 

[Karadjgne]

Welcome to Case Mods MacGyver style! Yeepah lol.

 

[loganwiniecke28]

@Karadjgne I was thinking of cutting out a hole for some mesh on the front cover lol. The only thing that scares me is ruining it, seeing how I only have one...

 

[SgtScream]

Did you order a new case yet? If not, which ones are you looking at?

 

[loganwiniecke28]

@SgtScream No, I am currently attempting to mod my case so it gets more airflow.

 

[loganwiniecke28]

Since I will be getting some new airflow fans which ones would y'all recommend?

 

[Darkbreeze]

For the front intakes?

These:

PCPartPicker Part List

Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 PWM chromax.black.swap 82.52 CFM 140 mm Fan ($24.90 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 PWM chromax.black.swap 82.52 CFM 140 mm Fan ($24.90 @ Amazon)
Total: $49.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-07-25 04:17 EDT-0400

 

[loganwiniecke28]

@Darkbreeze I had looked into those, however, I think that noctuas line of redux fans is relatively the same and inexpensive. Thanks though!
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-Beari...ronics&sprefix=Noctura,electronics,174&sr=1-8
Also, in the event that I do need to re-case my system, I was thinking about getting this Silverstone one. It has a mesh front with room for one 140mm radiator and another 140mm fan or just two 140mm fans. I'd haft to get a new radiator though : (. Is there any MATX cases out there that would support an ITX motherboard and a 240mm rad?
https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-...tone+case&qid=1564120925&s=electronics&sr=1-1

 

[Darkbreeze]

The Redux fans aren't even remotely similar. Those Redux P14 fans have only 0.77mm H20 static pressure and only move a maximum of 49 CFM.

Even the 1500rpm version of those P14 Redux fans have reduced static pressure and airflow while being significantly louder. They are reproductions of the original lineup of Noctua fans. Noctua developed new and IMPROVED fans, for a reason. Because they are better.

Those fans you have linked to are extremely poor choices for an intake or heatsink fan. You always want higher static pressure capability on heatsink, radiator or intake fans, because they will need to overcome the restriction of airflow through the fins or the backpressure of the internal case, and also restrictions in the case whether in front of or behind the fan.

But, it's your system. I would not recommend ever using fans with less than maybe 1.75mm H20 static pressure for an intake fan and something over 2mm would be a lot better.

 

[loganwiniecke28]

Okay @Darkbreeze , I'll take your word for it! I knew that the redux line of fans used a last generation design by Noctua, however, I did not think this would be an issue seeing how most reviews I have seen praise the things. But your points have coerced me. These fans are strictly for airflow BTW.

 

[Darkbreeze]

These fans are strictly for airflow BTW.

LOL. I wasn't aware that fans were ever for anything except airflow. Well, maybe in some cases they get added for looks. But seriously, yeah, in a small box like that, positive back-pressure can be extreme, and while SOME backpressure might be desirable for dust suppression, it makes life hard on the fans. Increasing the resistance increases the stress on the fan motor and bearings, so a fan with weak backpressure will struggle. If a fan has at least moderate and preferably good backpressure, it will not only find doing it's job much easier, but will likely be quieter and last a lot longer too. Resistance creates heat, heat kills motors and bearings.

 

[loganwiniecke28]

Alright @Karadjgne ! I made a modification to my front panel by which I mean me and my dad cut a large hole through the front panel, exposing the fans. It's by no means perfect but it will hold me over until I get a new case.

Results.
Modified panel on (fans at normal speed) - Idle 34C - Underload - 85C : (

This result seems a bit odd considering the earlier numbers we got were better by 21C!!! Moreover, I find it odd that idle temperatures stay consistent but load ones don't. Whenever I launch Black ops 4 my GPU immediately ramps up in usage, sometimes hitting up to 95% JUST IN THE MENUS. Something seems to be out of wack and I don't know what... this is worrying.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Are these GPU or CPU temps?

Does your motherboard have the latest BIOS version installed?

Have you done a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers?

How To - How to perform a CLEAN install of your video card drivers.

Updated 9-19-19 How to do a CLEAN install of your graphics card drivers using the Wagnard tools Display Driver Uninstaller A major issue on many systems is the presence of multiple graphics card drivers or drivers that have been incompletely uninstalled followed by the installation of...

forums.tomshardware.com

Has this card always had temperature problems? Have you tried running the system WITHOUT the side/top case panel on, so that it is open to the outside air and airflow should not be a factor for your graphics card or CPU cooler, to see if temps are different than with it on? If the temps are the same, then airflow through the case is not the problem. In that case it is probably a problem with the graphics card or drivers.

If temps are better with it opened up, then airflow is your problem.

 

[loganwiniecke28]

@Darkbreeze
My mother has been updated to the latest BIOS (F41a Gigabyte)

My GPU has been completely wiped and updated with the latest BIOS.

No, this card has not had a temperature issue since I started using this case.

I ran some tests with the case completely skeletonized and here are the results.

All panels off fans at normal speed - idle 38C - Under Load 82C

All panels off fans at full speed - Idle 32C - Underload 50C

Obviously, this is an issue with the airflow. I think the primary issue is that not enough air is being pushed underneath the graphics card, thus starving it of air.

 

[Darkbreeze]

So those are GPU temps we are talking about then, yes? Not CPU?

That's a different ballgame, which is why I asked that earlier but you didn't address it.

I don't suppose there is any way to remove that drive cage on top of the PSU shroud and get a vertical GPU mounting bracket. I think re-orienting the graphics card so it's fans aren't directly against the PSU shroud with no room in between would not only eliminate some of the heat being conducted away from the PSU through the PSU shroud to the air between the shroud and the graphics card, but also open it up slightly better to some of the airflow coming from the front fans.

Of note though is the fact that if you are getting 82°C on your graphics card, that is still probably within tolerance. Even in cases with tremendous airflow, under high demand many graphics cards still live at about 80°C.

What are your GPU temps under load with the panel on again?

 

[loganwiniecke28]

@Darkbreeze my bad! Those are definitely GPU temps. I monitor them using Afterburner or Open hardware.

Unfortunately, a vertical mount would not be possible in this case, and the distance between my PSU and GPU is actually not as back to back as you may think, I got an SFX PSU a while back to fix this issue. Roughly there is three inches of space between the two.

Here are the all panels on performance.

WIth Front panel (Fans on full speed) - idle 35C - Under Load 68C
With Front panel (Fans normal speed) - Idle 42C - Under Load 85C

 

[Darkbreeze]

Max operating temp for your GPU is 94°C. Yes, you are higher by about four degrees than what you REALLY would like to see it peak at, but you are still below the maximum threshold given by Nvidia for that card.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...jevent=2116c46fb33311e9826200330a1c0e12#specs

 

[Karadjgne]

Ok, I got a question.
So exactly what are the inside dimensions of the psu shroud? Would it be possible to ziptie an 80/92mm fan to the side of the hdd cage underneath and use that as a shunt to help suction airflow inside the shroud from the intake fan, and pressurize the air towards the rear where the venting is in the top of the shroud? That'd provide a lot more air at the gpu fans from underneath.

 

[loganwiniecke28]

@Darkbreeze Okay, that makes me feel a little better lol! Thanks for your help!

@Karadjgne I did some measurements on one of the drive cage walls and I found that I can in fact attach a 92mm Noctua fan. I may even be able to mount it if the holes align with the solid pieces of the cage.

 

[Karadjgne]

I'd be thinking about one on the drive cage to pull air into that shroud, and maybe a slim fan under the gpu an forced air induction style your gpu.

You are well into what's called 'case mods', so there's only One limit now, your imagination....

I'm dying to see how all this turns out 👍