Am I screwed? Can I upgrade my GPU to a GTX 980 Ti or am I stuck with what I have?

[simonz93]

Hi guys
Total noob in PC, just opened one for the first time in my life. I have a prebuilt HP envy phoenix 860-019, here's the specs http://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c04799759

I'm looking to upgrade my current GPU (GTX 960 that came with the PC) to a Evga GTX 980Ti or Asus 980 Ti Strix, and also replace the crappy default PSU and cooler.

However I was badly surprised when I opened the case. It looks like this.

First of all, it seems very packed, and there is barely any place to fit a GPU. The case itself is only 14.5 inch in length.
And that leads to my second concern. Why is my GTX 960 like this?
http://i.imgur.com/MHi1U2e.jpg

Is this how they look? Anyway that's not what how I pictured it after seeing a bunch of videos replacing/installing GTX graphic cards. This one doesn't have the external case and it looks much smaller than usual GTX GPUs.
So my main question is, can I upgrade the GPU at all? It seems there is simply no place to fit a 10.5 inch GTX 980Ti in there.

Guys please enlighten me, Thank you so much!

 

[simonz93]

Thanks! Haha yeah I think it's a good idea. Had I known I would have to go through all this I would have built my own from the start lol (this was the reason why I went pre-built because I know nothing, even with the guides I fear I may break something in the process...)
But can my motherboard be mounted onto a new case? I thought it was one specialized for the HP case?

Yes it can be mounted in almost any case. it is a micro-ATX board which is a standard size and design. The only reason it looks funny is because it is mounted upside-down in that case.

Great! That solves my last worry. Though I still have a question (sorry for all this is just that buying a new case really goes out of my expectation)
Now that I'm changing a case, can I get a bigger GPU? (I was thinking of getting the Asus GTX 980 Ti Strix which is bigger than the other GTX 980 Ti) Is case size the only limitation to how big of a GPU I can get?
And thanks for all the helpful answers, I will look into the cases you recommended

 

[timeconsumer]

Great! That solves my last worry. Though I still have a question (sorry for all this is just that buying a new case really goes out of my expectation)
Now that I'm changing a case, can I get a bigger GPU? (I was thinking of getting the Asus GTX 980 Ti Strix which is bigger than the other GTX 980 Ti) Is case size the only limitation to how big of a GPU I can get?
And thanks for all the helpful answers, I will look into the cases you recommended

Yes, case size is pretty much the only limiting factor when it comes to GPU length.

 

[Geekwad]

Thanks so much for your reassurance!
How do I know if my card will come with a think backplate? Is it something I can take off myself? http://www.ncix.com/detail/evga-geforce-gtx-980-ti-b2-109571-1244.htm
Height: 4.376in 111.15mm
Length: 10.5in 266.7mm
Width: Dual Slot

For the monitor, I'm looking to get a 1440 p monitor. I was considering 4K as well but it seems too expensive right now, and the rig I have may not be enough to ensure both stunning graphics and good performance.

It will probably fit even with that backplate. If you look at the picture of it in profile it doesn't add much thickness. But like a lot of the other guys said, getting a new case isn't a bad idea either. If you're going to go through all the work of removing the motherboard to attach a new HSF as well as install a new PSU, you might as well just throw it all in a better case that has more airflow. You can get a decent case for pretty cheap, $30-$50.

The 980 Ti will be great with a 1440p monitor.

Thanks! Haha yeah I think it's a good idea. Had I known I would have to go through all this I would have built my own from the start lol (this was the reason why I went pre-built because I know nothing, even with the guides I fear I may break something in the process...)
But can my motherboard be mounted onto a new case? I thought it was one specialized for the HP case?

Yes, and apologies for throwing all this out there prematurely. After going back and carefully reading the spec link, I see that it is µATX (micro ATX.....often noted as mATX).

And knowing for sure that it will work with cases that support mATX boards, I would also agree with everyone here that it's a super great idea for airflow. I just bought this one for my nephew:

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002559

$40 after rebate from NewEgg.

 

[timeconsumer]

Be careful with those small form factor cases. They are pretty awesome but can be a pain to install inside. You have to ensure that your GPU, PSU, and HSF can all fit inside and still leave room for cable management. Also note any case that is designed for ATX can also fit a micro ATX board. So you can a nice mid-tower like this if you want: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/nzxt-case-cas340wb1

 

[Geekwad]

Be careful with those small form factor cases. They are pretty awesome but can be a pain to install inside. You have to ensure that your GPU, PSU, and HSF can all fit inside and still leave room for cable management. Also note any case that is designed for ATX can also fit a micro ATX board. So you can a nice mid-tower like this if you want: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/nzxt-case-cas340wb1

Oh agreed. This one is one of the better ones though for small form factor. All the sides/front/top are removable which makes for really great access. It's big for a mATX (max) support case, and has exceptional airflow.

The OP should consider carefully though, as a mid-tower does offer things this case does not....namely external bays for DVD drives or fan controller, etc. For my nephew we used an internal fan controller to supplement the board as there are 9x 120mm fans (including two on the tower CPU cooler) and one 200mm fan in this case, and he already had an external DVD writer for when it was needed.

EDIT: This one had my eye at one point too, for a budget case:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/383014/Commander_MS-I_Snow_ATX_Mid-Tower_Computer_Case#

 

[simonz93]

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer. Please allow me to bother you with yet another follow-up question. For the case, I read that there are ones that make it really easy to install parts and allow you to fix all the cables in place. Since this will be my first time building a PC, I rather go with a case that's more expensive but more noob-friendly and has great airflow etc than a budget one. Is there one you would recommend or are the ones above newbie-friendly as well?

 

[Geekwad]

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer. Please allow me to bother you with yet another follow-up question. For the case, I read that there are ones that make it really easy to install parts and allow you to fix all the cables in place. Since this will be my first time building a PC, I rather go with a case that's more expensive but more noob-friendly and has great airflow etc than a budget one. Is there one you would recommend or are the ones above newbie-friendly as well?

Honestly I think most of them can be friendly, but the more space behind or underneath where the motherboard mounts will determine wire handling. When you're looking at cases, also look for wire gourmets in the board for feeding wires through. That feature many times hints at whether the manufacturer thought about it. Cases of course vary, but the other important thing to help with a build and wire management is the PSU. Fully modular PSU's are typically found on higher end units anyway (something with a big PC investment you definitely shouldn't skimp on), but it also makes wire management that much easier. The cable/sleaving also tends to be of higher quality and more flexible, which really helps.

In addition, the right tools on hand makes the experience much more enjoyable.

Something like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261003

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6703JX4357&cm_re=cable_tie_holder-_-9SIA6703JX4357-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899994066&cm_re=cable_tie-_-99-994-066-_-Product

ensure you have enough ties on hand and a way to secure them where there are not fasten points, and super convenient tools like plastic tweezers to pick up the screws you're invariably going to drop

 

[simonz93]

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer. Please allow me to bother you with yet another follow-up question. For the case, I read that there are ones that make it really easy to install parts and allow you to fix all the cables in place. Since this will be my first time building a PC, I rather go with a case that's more expensive but more noob-friendly and has great airflow etc than a budget one. Is there one you would recommend or are the ones above newbie-friendly as well?

Honestly I think most of them can be friendly, but the more space behind or underneath where the motherboard mounts will determine wire handling. When you're looking at cases, also look for wire gourmets in the board for feeding wires through. That feature many times hints at whether the manufacturer thought about it. Cases of course vary, but the other important thing to help with a build and wire management is the PSU. Fully modular PSU's are typically found on higher end units anyway (something with a big PC investment you definitely shouldn't skimp on), but it also makes wire management that much easier. The cable/sleaving also tends to be of higher quality and more flexible, which really helps.

In addition, the right tools on hand makes the experience much more enjoyable.

Something like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261003

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6703JX4357&cm_re=cable_tie_holder-_-9SIA6703JX4357-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899994066&cm_re=cable_tie-_-99-994-066-_-Product

ensure you have enough ties on hand and a way to secure them where there are not fasten points, and super convenient tools like plastic tweezers to pick up the screws you're invariably going to drop

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer.

Argh I just wanted some guide and tutorial videos on how to build a PC, and it looks really daunting, and it seems that at several point during the installation you can instantly fry everything (like accidentally put your motherboard onto the case, or touch somewhere you're not supposed to). And this doesn't even though on smaller mistakes that new learners are bound to make (like not correctly plug a wire causing something not to work).

This seems too hard and too risky for a noob like me >.<

 

[cst1992]

I have used a prebuilt PC myself, and it's cramped, and some of the case edges can be sharp.

One suggestion I could provide is that you go for a reference card. They run slightly hotter than non-reference but will put all hot air out of the case, instead of spreading it inside which I think is absolutely essential in this scenario.

Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-DisplayPort-Graphics-ZT-90501-10P/dp/B00YNEIAWY/ref=sr_1_15?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1448635597&sr=1-15&keywords=980+ti


Does the case actually have the panel on the wrong side? My first impression was that I was looking at a case that was sitting on its head. Rotate it 180 degrees and you're golden.

 

[cst1992]

Argh I just wanted some guide and tutorial videos on how to build a PC, and it looks really daunting, and it seems that at several point during the installation you can instantly fry everything (like accidentally put your motherboard onto the case, or touch somewhere you're not supposed to). And this doesn't even though on smaller mistakes that new learners are bound to make (like not correctly plug a wire causing something not to work).

This seems too hard and too risky for a noob like me >.<

It's not. I suggest you watch a few of Carey Holzman's videos on YouTube. They're excellent. It's usually a three hour video of an entire PC build, from the parts to the installation to testing.

Modern motherboards are much easier to build in than motherboards of 10 years ago; in those days everything had pinouts for connecting wires similar to what you'd have for connecting front panel wires. Today's motherboards also have built-in safeguards: they'll not turn on at all if something is wrong, and have beep codes to troubleshoot bad components.

Today it's just a 3-D jigsaw puzzle, and not even a very difficult one once you get familiar with the components.

 

[RobCrezz]

Argh I just wanted some guide and tutorial videos on how to build a PC, and it looks really daunting, and it seems that at several point during the installation you can instantly fry everything (like accidentally put your motherboard onto the case, or touch somewhere you're not supposed to). And this doesn't even though on smaller mistakes that new learners are bound to make (like not correctly plug a wire causing something not to work).

This seems too hard and too risky for a noob like me >.<

It's not. I suggest you watch a few of Carey Holzman's videos on YouTube. They're excellent. It's usually a three hour video of an entire PC build, from the parts to the installation to testing.

Modern motherboards are much easier to build in than motherboards of 10 years ago; in those days everything had pinouts for connecting wires similar to what you'd have for connecting front panel wires. Today's motherboards also have built-in safeguards: they'll not turn on at all if something is wrong, and have beep codes to troubleshoot bad components.

Today it's just a 3-D jigsaw puzzle, and not even a very difficult one once you get familiar with the components.

+1 its so much easier now. Back when I first started building pcs it was a headache of compatability issues, setting CPU interrupt requests to not conflict for every card / peripheral, drivers used to be a minefield...

 

[cst1992]

Don't forget the IDE cables. Never seen something uglier and more cluttering.

 

[RobCrezz]

Haha I dont think anyone cared about internal looks back then. Although I did spray paint an old beige case in matt black 😀

 

[Geekwad]

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer. Please allow me to bother you with yet another follow-up question. For the case, I read that there are ones that make it really easy to install parts and allow you to fix all the cables in place. Since this will be my first time building a PC, I rather go with a case that's more expensive but more noob-friendly and has great airflow etc than a budget one. Is there one you would recommend or are the ones above newbie-friendly as well?

Honestly I think most of them can be friendly, but the more space behind or underneath where the motherboard mounts will determine wire handling. When you're looking at cases, also look for wire gourmets in the board for feeding wires through. That feature many times hints at whether the manufacturer thought about it. Cases of course vary, but the other important thing to help with a build and wire management is the PSU. Fully modular PSU's are typically found on higher end units anyway (something with a big PC investment you definitely shouldn't skimp on), but it also makes wire management that much easier. The cable/sleaving also tends to be of higher quality and more flexible, which really helps.

In addition, the right tools on hand makes the experience much more enjoyable.

Something like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261003

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6703JX4357&cm_re=cable_tie_holder-_-9SIA6703JX4357-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899994066&cm_re=cable_tie-_-99-994-066-_-Product

ensure you have enough ties on hand and a way to secure them where there are not fasten points, and super convenient tools like plastic tweezers to pick up the screws you're invariably going to drop

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer.

Argh I just wanted some guide and tutorial videos on how to build a PC, and it looks really daunting, and it seems that at several point during the installation you can instantly fry everything (like accidentally put your motherboard onto the case, or touch somewhere you're not supposed to). And this doesn't even though on smaller mistakes that new learners are bound to make (like not correctly plug a wire causing something not to work).

This seems too hard and too risky for a noob like me >.<

Everyone starts as a Noob sometime

No one here would recommend that you jump into this head-first, but with access to so many great tutorials and place to ask specific questions, you're in a MUCH different position when I started. As I had mentioned before, not having the right tools/materials on hand is one of the biggest newbie mistakes I see. Many tragic errors stem from using the wrong tools, forcing parts, working in the wrong space or hurrying. Static discharge is a concern, but working on a hard work surface (like a kitchen/dining room table) and with shoes on, erases most of that.

 

[timeconsumer]

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer.

Argh I just wanted some guide and tutorial videos on how to build a PC, and it looks really daunting, and it seems that at several point during the installation you can instantly fry everything (like accidentally put your motherboard onto the case, or touch somewhere you're not supposed to). And this doesn't even though on smaller mistakes that new learners are bound to make (like not correctly plug a wire causing something not to work).

This seems too hard and too risky for a noob like me >.<

If you can put together a piece of furniture from Ikea, you can put together a computer, and you can do it with the same screwdriver that the piece of Ikea furniture came with.

 

[simonz93]

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer.

Argh I just wanted some guide and tutorial videos on how to build a PC, and it looks really daunting, and it seems that at several point during the installation you can instantly fry everything (like accidentally put your motherboard onto the case, or touch somewhere you're not supposed to). And this doesn't even though on smaller mistakes that new learners are bound to make (like not correctly plug a wire causing something not to work).

This seems too hard and too risky for a noob like me >.<

If you can put together a piece of furniture from Ikea, you can put together a computer, and you can do it with the same screwdriver that the piece of Ikea furniture came with.

Haha I hope I have that confidence!
Just one last concern I have before going to buy all the parts.
I'm still worried about my motherboard. (full specs http://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c04790224) It's just so non-standard, I can't even find it on pc partpicker. So I don't know if such a cooler can be mounted on top. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

Other than that I think I'm good to go, if you don't mind can you check my new "starting to build a pc" thread?
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2876143/building-time-suggestions.html

Thanks so much for all your help!

 

[simonz93]

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer. Please allow me to bother you with yet another follow-up question. For the case, I read that there are ones that make it really easy to install parts and allow you to fix all the cables in place. Since this will be my first time building a PC, I rather go with a case that's more expensive but more noob-friendly and has great airflow etc than a budget one. Is there one you would recommend or are the ones above newbie-friendly as well?

Honestly I think most of them can be friendly, but the more space behind or underneath where the motherboard mounts will determine wire handling. When you're looking at cases, also look for wire gourmets in the board for feeding wires through. That feature many times hints at whether the manufacturer thought about it. Cases of course vary, but the other important thing to help with a build and wire management is the PSU. Fully modular PSU's are typically found on higher end units anyway (something with a big PC investment you definitely shouldn't skimp on), but it also makes wire management that much easier. The cable/sleaving also tends to be of higher quality and more flexible, which really helps.

In addition, the right tools on hand makes the experience much more enjoyable.

Something like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261003

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6703JX4357&cm_re=cable_tie_holder-_-9SIA6703JX4357-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899994066&cm_re=cable_tie-_-99-994-066-_-Product

ensure you have enough ties on hand and a way to secure them where there are not fasten points, and super convenient tools like plastic tweezers to pick up the screws you're invariably going to drop

Thanks so much Night Owl and Timeconsumer.

Argh I just wanted some guide and tutorial videos on how to build a PC, and it looks really daunting, and it seems that at several point during the installation you can instantly fry everything (like accidentally put your motherboard onto the case, or touch somewhere you're not supposed to). And this doesn't even though on smaller mistakes that new learners are bound to make (like not correctly plug a wire causing something not to work).

This seems too hard and too risky for a noob like me >.<

Everyone starts as a Noob sometime

No one here would recommend that you jump into this head-first, but with access to so many great tutorials and place to ask specific questions, you're in a MUCH different position when I started. As I had mentioned before, not having the right tools/materials on hand is one of the biggest newbie mistakes I see. Many tragic errors stem from using the wrong tools, forcing parts, working in the wrong space or hurrying. Static discharge is a concern, but working on a hard work surface (like a kitchen/dining room table) and with shoes on, erases most of that.

Haha but I think I just lack the necessary fundamental knowledge. I've watched quite a few tutorials now, but none of them has really addressed some basic knowledge that I'm not aware of.
For example you recommend the plastic tweezers. I would just have picked up the screws with my hands without having the slightest idea that's not something you're supposed to do...
So you see? I just don't know enough about the basic "science" behind lol >.<

 

[timeconsumer]

Haha I hope I have that confidence!
Just one last concern I have before going to buy all the parts.
I'm still worried about my motherboard. (full specs http://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c04790224) It's just so non-standard, I can't even find it on pc partpicker. So I don't know if such a cooler can be mounted on top. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

Other than that I think I'm good to go, if you don't mind can you check my new "starting to build a pc" thread?
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2876143/building-time-suggestions.html

Thanks so much for all your help!

There's nothing non-standard about your motherboard. It's a micro-ATX socket 1151. Any cooler that works for an 1151 will work for you. I'd probably go with a Cryorig H7: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UF2DZ6565

For example you recommend the plastic tweezers. I would just have picked up the screws with my hands without having the slightest idea that's not something you're supposed to do...

There's nothing wrong with picking up the screws with your hands. The tweezers are in case they fall into a crack.

 

[cst1992]

Did you read my post above?
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2873963/screwed-upgrade-gpu-gtx-980-stuck.html#17021302

 

[cst1992]

There's nothing wrong with picking up the screws with your hands. The tweezers are in case they fall into a crack.

Also, you should use a screwdriver that has been magnetized, so that the screw sticks to the screwdriver without falling off. Use one of these kind of magnets

and put your screwdriver rod in between the two vertical poles. Then move it like a piston until it becomes quite hard to do.

That's it! Your screwdriver is magnetized. You can test its strength by sticking it to a coin or any such light metal and trying to lift it.

 

[simonz93]

Did you read my post above?
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2873963/screwed-upgrade-gpu-gtx-980-stuck.html#17021302

yes thank you! I checked some of his videos.
But the reason I feel so unconfident is not only because it's gonna be my first time (and will be handling very expensive parts), but also because my situation doesn't fit most of the tutorials. The latters are building from scratch, whereas I'm swapping some parts from the old pc (MB, rams, drives) and adding new parts (GPU, PSU), and put them all together in a new case.
So when I watch the guides, I can't exactly follow the steps step-by-step because my situation is different.
If you don't mind me asking one question related to my above concern, since I will be keeping pretty much everything on the MB except the GPU, can I just dismount the MB without detaching things like the rams and processor like shown in many swapping MB tutorial videos?

 

[cst1992]

Apart from the processor heatsink and RAM, you should detach everything. Or even the RAM. And as Carey does it, assemble the basic parts outside of the case, and handle the motherboard by the heatsink/edges.

You could skip to the part where he's installing all the parts in the case, after the motherboard has been successfully installed. That'll be similar to your own thing.

 

[simonz93]

Haha I hope I have that confidence!
Just one last concern I have before going to buy all the parts.
I'm still worried about my motherboard. (full specs http://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c04790224) It's just so non-standard, I can't even find it on pc partpicker. So I don't know if such a cooler can be mounted on top. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

Other than that I think I'm good to go, if you don't mind can you check my new "starting to build a pc" thread?
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2876143/building-time-suggestions.html

Thanks so much for all your help!

There's nothing non-standard about your motherboard. It's a micro-ATX socket 1151. Any cooler that works for an 1151 will work for you. I'd probably go with a Cryorig H7: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UF2DZ6565

For example you recommend the plastic tweezers. I would just have picked up the screws with my hands without having the slightest idea that's not something you're supposed to do...

There's nothing wrong with picking up the screws with your hands. The tweezers are in case they fall into a crack.

LOL ok cool! Thanks man!

 

[simonz93]

Apart from the processor heatsink and RAM, you should detach everything. Or even the RAM. And as Carey does it, assemble the basic parts outside of the case, and handle the motherboard by the heatsink/edges.

You could skip to the part where he's installing all the parts in the case, after the motherboard has been successfully installed. That'll be similar to your own thing.

Ok great! One more question, if I put my current MB, ram and hard drives into the new case, will I retain the OS, as well as all the data, files and programs I have currently installed on my PC?

 

[cst1992]

Of course. You'll only lose the OS if you switch motherboards. The case is just a box of metal. It's technically possible(albeit inconvenient) to run a PC without one. Or even build your own.