AMD Clarifies 2013 Radeon Plans

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Not that they haven't gone against what they're saying before, but AMD stated that there won't be a new card between the Radeon 7770 and the Radeon 7850 at least until next generation when Tom's spoke with them about it a few months ago. The odd engineering sample that Tom's tested back then started up a few rumors about it, but AMD told us that it was just a test board for a single slot 7850 and nothing will come of it. We've had several card releases from AMD since then and it wasn't one of them, so I'm inclined to believe them, granted I still think that it's a bad decision for them.
 

Darth_Kaar

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Since I've bought a 7970 recently, I can't be more happy that it won't be outdated too soon. Also I'm pleased that AMD has still plans to improve 7xxx series - bonus value for the same cash. The rivarly between nVidia and AMD is once again getting interesting.
 

ibjeepr

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Again, another good point. Don't supposed I could get you to give me a quick vocab lesson on what the break down is on the adopted names for the stutter types?
 

CaptainTom

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"AMD believes it offers the best products on the market."

It does. At the rate AMD is improving performance with every driver, the 680 will soon be left in the dust by the 7970 GHz. Plus they are probably ready to launch an ultra 7970/7990 whenever they have to that can compete with the titan for half the price.
 

cangelini

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[citation][nom]sykozis[/nom]Looks like someone used HardwareCanucks as a source..... Go read the article Anandtech posted....it's more fact, less opinion....[/citation]
We were all on the same phone call.
 
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AMD, value for money, that's all I can say! Great cards that are not only cheaper, but OC better and last you longer. No I'm not a fan boy, I'm just very pleased that my 7970 will not feel outdated for a while longer. :)
 

TeraMedia

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In spite of what VP Channel Sales had to say, I'm concerned about this. NVidia is not standing still. They can't afford to, because currently their yields are too low on their best stuff. To me, this looks like AMD had to scale way back on R&D due to budget cuts, perhaps even scrapping some projects altogether along the way.
 
[citation][nom]Teramedia[/nom]In spite of what VP Channel Sales had to say, I'm concerned about this. NVidia is not standing still. They can't afford to, because currently their yields are too low on their best stuff. To me, this looks like AMD had to scale way back on R&D due to budget cuts, perhaps even scrapping some projects altogether along the way.[/citation]

I'm not aware of any AMD projects being scrapped recently.

Nvidia is spreading themselves thin too. They are supposedly waiting at least until around when consoles launch before they launch their next generation, so similar time frame to AMD.
 

merikafyeah

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[citation][nom]ibjeepr[/nom]Ok fair enough but sub-second variable frame rate is commonly also refered to as micro-stutter.[/citation]
This is possibly the only video on the internet which perfectly demonstrates exactly what micro-stuttering is and what it looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOtre2f4qZs
Micro-stuttering refers to nothing else but this kind of stuttering. I hope everyone is perfectly clear on this.

Micro-stuttering can be virtually eliminated in software on AMD systems:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-7970-x2,3329-11.html

 
[citation][nom]ibjeepr[/nom]Again, another good point. Don't supposed I could get you to give me a quick vocab lesson on what the break down is on the adopted names for the stutter types?[/citation]

Sure, I'll give some examples.
Each number written in each line below is a frame and each dash (-) is a moment of time between frames being delivered.

With a single GPU, it's likely to look something like this:
1---2---3--4--5----6---7---8----9--10
Overall, the frames are delivered fairly consistently. There are a few minor variances, but overall, it's very smooth. It can get bad to the point where it's more like this in bad situations:
1---2----3------4------5------6------7
and so on, but it's not a repeating pattern. This may happen when you run into a particularly intensive scene and your graphics card is having a little trouble coping with the increased work load (such as a big explosion) or if some other issue causes the GPU to be unable to cope with the workload IE abnormal throttling or a CPU bottle-neck.

As you probably know, most modern multi-GPU setups have the GPUs in the array each do their own frames individually and take turns delivering frames for the whole display configuration. Micro-stuttering is caused when they get out of sync. Let's say that GPU A gets odd numbered frames and GPU B gets even numbered frames. Ideally, you'd want the frame delivery *map* to look like this:
A1---B2---A3---B4---A5---B6---A7
Well, you'd want something close to that like what you had with the first line for a single GPU at the top of this post. Unfortunately, two GPUs often get stuck in a pattern more like this:
A1-B2-----A3-B4-----A5-B6-----A7
Comparing this to the line above it, you can see that FPS is the same, but the experience would be far from the same because the bottom line here has the GPU B delivering a frame imperceptibly close to GPU A's last frame, forcing GPU A to wait a relatively long time to the next frame that can be very perceptible. This issue is more prominent on slower GPUs where the GPUs aren't fast enough to recover from such a pattern after getting stuck (among other issues) and is also much more prominent on dual-GPU solutions than on triple and especially quad-GPU solutions. This is because it's much less likely for three or four GPUs to get stuck in the same pattern than it is for two GPUs and even if four GPUs do get stuck, they have a lot of time to re-time themselves. They have more time because of the poor performance scaling with such setups. With four GPUs only having the performance of say three GPUs, they have an ~33% higher amount of time for each GPU to render a frame. When you're rushing, you're more prone to mistakes applies to GPUs as well as if does to humans ;)

Variable sub-second FPS (IDK if that's exactly a normal term, but it's literal meaning applies just fine anyway) is kinda like an intermediate between the repetitiveness of micro-stutter and the near randomness of what the second line I made shows. With in each second, but not with every single frame, the frame rate can vary along semi-repetitive but longer cycle patterns. Instead of being every frame, you'll get more of an oscillation every few to every few dozen frames. For example, for the first third of a second, you might have a about 15 frames (45FPS), the next third may be about 10 frames (30FPS), and back again. Like micro-stuttering, this type of stutter is also often related to dual-GPU solutions and can be alleviated by higher0end GPUs or having more than tow GPUs, but also like the simple inconsistent frame rate exhibited in the first two lines at the top of my post, this can affect single GPU solutions too.

Here are some graphs to demonstrate:

first example from lines at top of my comment:
1345736700tJwmf64Bk6_2_3.gif

The Radeon 7950 here is clearly shown to have had significant consistency issues in this title in the past, but it is not having sub-second issues nor micro-stuttering. According to the article, this was due to having an issue with tessellation performance. This graph is over the course of several dozen minutes or something like that IIRC.

Variable sub-second FPS:
Crossfire-SLI-stuttering,W-I-300546-22.png

Here we can see that the GTX 560 had a few big hiccups in sub-second performance even as a single GPU setup and two Radeon 6870s had major problems with this type of stutter in Crossfire. This graph's points are smaller than a second but larger than individual frames.

Micro-stuttering:
bc2-gtx560sli.gif

Here is an excellent example of real micro-stutter. The average FPS is somewhere around 45FPS, but it'd actually look worse than stutter-free 30FPS. This graph's points are individual frames and how much time passed between their delivery as measured in milliseconds.
 
HD-8xxx (or, Radeon Mobility) **Mars** development and tweaking (along with the console APUs?) over the next few months may be critical to Kaveri Steamroller this Fall.

The Road Map from last month indicated GCN from top to bottom (Temash-Kabini GCN was a big surprise, at least, to me).

Kaveri Steamroller with a Mars GCN (even a hybrid'ish one with some major Cape Verde DNA) might be LOL-crazy in performance for an APU.

Could this be the missing performance link between the HD7770 and HD7850? At the rate things are going, the HD7850 is going to be $120 or less this Summer. Everything below that can be rebadged GHz GCN -70s and -50s

(puts down the crazy sauce)



 

chicofehr

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I want to see a 7950 x2 or whatever they would call it. They used to have 2 different dual GPU's before. The 7990 is too expensive so a lower tier dual GPU is needed that is between the 7970 GHz and 7990.
 
[citation][nom]chicofehr[/nom]I want to see a 7950 x2 or whatever they would call it. They used to have 2 different dual GPU's before. The 7990 is too expensive so a lower tier dual GPU is needed that is between the 7970 GHz and 7990.[/citation]

Yeah, a 7950X2 would be nice. If they still want to avoid saying X2, they can call it a Radeon 7980 and it'd fit in nicely right around $650 to $700. However, it's not like AMD stopped having two main dual-GPU cards recently. They haven't had them since the Radeon 4000 series unless you count the Radeon 6870X2 and the rarer Radeon 6850X2.
 
:heink: They're up to something sneaky. I bet it's driving Jen-Hsun Huang crazy.

We could see a 20nm 7000-series *pipecleaner* mid-range card(s) as quasi-risk production before the end of the year, paving the way for a full-run 20nm 8000-series in early-2014. I can't remember the specific run-up to 40nm when the HD4770 popped up from nowhere (old age) with the 5000-series busting out 4 months later.

TSMC might do it just to peese nVidia off :lol: In the last year or so, nVidia has been less than kind in some comments about TSMC, development, cost, yields, etc., and this likely fueled some of the rumors about them moving to Intel foundries.



 
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I'm with all the AMD lovers these days. I like what they are doing with there CPU architectures and there GPU's are top freaking notch! Hell, if the TFlops performance is anything to go by the $350 7970 that I ordered last week has about 90% of the performance of the $1000 Titan monstrosity. That's awesome sauce!
 

DjEaZy

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... i still sit on my HD5870... and it's still a fine card... but i wanted to gift my self 4 my birthday @ 27.02. a new HD8000 series card... the upgrade is overdo...
 

demonhorde665

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[citation][nom]ibjeepr[/nom]Well they must know something about what Nvidia is doing. Because even if sales of the 7xxx are good now they surely can't expect that to continue once Nvidia's 7xx comes out.AMD must figure:"Nvidia isn't going to do anything with their 7xx this year or the new 7xx isn't anthing we can't match with tweaks to our 7xxx so either way we can push the 8xxx to next year"Talk about leaving the door open if they don't have some inside info on Nvidia's plan.[/citation]


nvidia is sitting on their buts too , this generation of cards really . don't think either company is too ready to toss out new offerings till after new consoles release. keep in mind AMD is also making the chips for EVERY Console this comming generation. that means a sizable amount of theri production is being geared towards that , and they might not have the overhead to worry aobut new pc products uintill after teh console market has settled down.

that said the 7900's and super top end still , and really have no need for replacing yet.
 

ojas

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Welcome to last week, or the week before that, tom's.

You know, me and other people in the forums did post links to clarifications but i guess no one reads the comments except for proofing errors. :|
 
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