AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[The Q6660 Inside]

^^ if you want to go that route, the 280x is a better value than the 770 and its actually $300 now instead of
$350+.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125475

reports of it overclocking 1200+ mhz with the 3-fan coolers.

*Cough* actually hotter than Vapor-X *cough* I would go ASUS or EVGA 770 ACX, which is like $320..
Edit: The 770 is up to $350, OH COME ON!

 

[8350rocks]

290X > 780TI

290X is cheaper by $150 too...how sad...

The 780 is a good deal for people who love a novelty Blower heatsink, for everybody else, the 290X is pretty much the way2go.

Can it beat twin OC'd 770 GTX's at ~$300 apiece?

Seriously, that's the way to go this gen. Even as much as I hate SLI'd configs, that's the way to go, rather then eating $700 on a single card.

Yes, in quite a few games the 290X is actually faster, and for $550 too (net $50 savings @ $300 ea.)...not $700...you're thinking of the ridiculous 780Ti that the NVidiots announced for $699...(which will under perform the 290X GHz that almost certainly will come later for less money...)

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

290X > 780TI

290X is cheaper by $150 too...how sad...

The 780 is a good deal for people who love a novelty Blower heatsink, for everybody else, the 290X is pretty much the way2go.

Can it beat twin OC'd 770 GTX's at ~$300 apiece?

Seriously, that's the way to go this gen. Even as much as I hate SLI'd configs, that's the way to go, rather then eating $700 on a single card.

Yes, for $550 too...not $700...you're thinking of the ridiculous 780Ti that the NVidiots announced for $699...(which will under perform the 290X GHz that almost certainly will come later for less money...)

@8350, get a 290X already 😛
The 780ti is just a money-grab, so they can make a 780Ti SE that is only slightly slower and costs $600 😛

 

[noob2222]

^^ if you want to go that route, the 280x is a better value than the 770 and its actually $300 now instead of
$350+.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125475

reports of it overclocking 1200+ mhz with the 3-fan coolers.

*Cough* actually hotter than Vapor-X *cough* I would go ASUS or EVGA 770 ACX, which is like $320..
Edit: The 770 is up to $350, OH COME ON!

320? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130919

looks like 349.99, so i guess your right, its not $350

as for some figures ...

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1851/pg10/asus-radeon-r9-280x-directcu-ii-top-graphics-card-review-power-temps-and-overclocking.html

 

[youcanDUit]

what i'd like to know, is why/how intel processors always seem ahead of AMD? is single core performance really that advanced in intel processors? also, why do amd's top processors always have a super high TDP? and when i look at cpu hierarchy's why are the intel 4 core processors always faster than the AMD 8-core? is there differences in the math/engineering? also, why does AMD add graphics to the processor? wouldn't it be wise to focus on computing? it seems they have the graphics part down (somewhat, i think the whole heat/TDP thing is a big deal, considering heat=damage). i'm not one of those fan jerks. i won't support capitalism or redundancy. i loved my ps3, till it blew up on me. i'll buy any processor, as long as it's great, cheap and (somewhat) future proof.

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

^^ if you want to go that route, the 280x is a better value than the 770 and its actually $300 now instead of
$350+.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125475

reports of it overclocking 1200+ mhz with the 3-fan coolers.

*Cough* actually hotter than Vapor-X *cough* I would go ASUS or EVGA 770 ACX, which is like $320..
Edit: The 770 is up to $350, OH COME ON!

320? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130919

looks like 349.99, so i guess your right, its not $350

as for some figures ...

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1851/pg10/asus-radeon-r9-280x-directcu-ii-top-graphics-card-review-power-temps-and-overclocking.html

@noob2222, it was like $329 on the egg yesterday. Amazon has it for $320 IIRC.
@youcanDUit, Intel has better single threaded performance because it has more 1 more ALU for each core, and does not share many resources like AMD. In multi-threaded, the 8350 gives a 3770K a run for its money. AMD generally runs cooler than Intel, the TDP thing is B$. AMD has moar power consumption because of the moar coars approach.

 

[noob2222]

^^ unstable Nvidia pricing?

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-SuperClocked-Graphics-02G-P4-2774-KR/dp/B00CZIQXBA/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1383080858&sr=1-1&keywords=evga+770+acx

ya, there are a few at 329.99, but not the evga 770 acx, (wich is like $320)

Kinda funny, 770 getting beat by the 280x and the price goes up ... Nvidia defies logic.

none of them are 299.99 as the 280x's are, minimum your paying $30 extra for the 770, and upwards of $90. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125462

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

^^ unstable Nvidia pricing?

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-SuperClocked-Graphics-02G-P4-2774-KR/dp/B00CZIQXBA/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1383080858&sr=1-1&keywords=evga+770+acx

ya, there are a few at 329.99, but not the evga 770 acx, (wich is like $320)

Kinda funny, 770 getting beat by the 280x and the price goes up ... Nvidia defies logic.

none of them are 299.99 as the 280x's are, minimum your paying $30 extra for the 770, and upwards of $90. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125462

Probably, anyways, the 280X is good deal, BF4 will support MANTLE after all..

 

[8350rocks]

Oh look, 780Ti specs leaked:

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/61445-nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-ti-specifications-revealed/

Look at that...

780Ti 4.7 TFLOPS at max turbo clock. ($699)

R9-290 4.9 TFLOPS at max boost clock. ($449)

R9-290X 5.6 TFLOPS at max boost clock. ($549)

Hmm...I wonder...which one of those is going to be a greater value...?

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

Oh look, 780Ti specs leaked:

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/61445-nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-ti-specifications-revealed/

Look at that...

780Ti 4.7 TFLOPS at max turbo clock. ($699)

R9-290 4.9 TFLOPS at max boost clock. ($449)

R9-290X 5.6 TFLOPS at max boost clock. ($549)

Hmm...I wonder...which one of those is going to be a greater value...?

FLOPs is not everything though, the 290X should be a much better value, the 290 will cream it in PPD.

 

[8350rocks]

Well, of course the 290 will win PPD...it's ~20% cheaper and only 12.5% less powerful.

Though, the point was...the 780Ti is the opposite of a bargain or value! I am not even sure they have a one word name for that, though I am going to coin the term "NValuable" for such things at this point...LOL.

 

[jdwii]

what i'd like to know, is why/how intel processors always seem ahead of AMD? is single core performance really that advanced in intel processors? also, why do amd's top processors always have a super high TDP? and when i look at cpu hierarchy's why are the intel 4 core processors always faster than the AMD 8-core? is there differences in the math/engineering? also, why does AMD add graphics to the processor? wouldn't it be wise to focus on computing? it seems they have the graphics part down (somewhat, i think the whole heat/TDP thing is a big deal, considering heat=damage). i'm not one of those fan jerks. i won't support capitalism or redundancy. i loved my ps3, till it blew up on me. i'll buy any processor, as long as it's great, cheap and (somewhat) future proof.

If you create a separate thread or you can even private message me we can get a build for you if your interested? If your just wondering about the difference Amd is not that far behind and creating a CPU is not easy by any means.

 

[youcanDUit]

what i'd like to know, is why/how intel processors always seem ahead of AMD? is single core performance really that advanced in intel processors? also, why do amd's top processors always have a super high TDP? and when i look at cpu hierarchy's why are the intel 4 core processors always faster than the AMD 8-core? is there differences in the math/engineering? also, why does AMD add graphics to the processor? wouldn't it be wise to focus on computing? it seems they have the graphics part down (somewhat, i think the whole heat/TDP thing is a big deal, considering heat=damage). i'm not one of those fan jerks. i won't support capitalism or redundancy. i loved my ps3, till it blew up on me. i'll buy any processor, as long as it's great, cheap and (somewhat) future proof.

If you create a separate thread or you can even private message me we can get a build for you if your interested? If your just wondering about the difference Amd is not that far behind and creating a CPU is not easy by any means.

i figured it was appropriate, considering this is about next gen AMD tech.

 

[tracker45]

Will Steamroller beat Intel or not ?

 

[youcanDUit]

Will Steamroller beat Intel or not ?

what is steamroller? how does it work? what makes it good? can it compete with intel? why should i buy it? that's what i want to know. so far, it's all speculation.

 

[Cazalan]

what is steamroller? how does it work? what makes it good? can it compete with intel? why should i buy it? that's what i want to know. so far, it's all speculation.

Well this is the Speculation thread. The product hasn't launched yet.

 

[griptwister]

I sure as hell know Steam roller priced at $150 will beat a Intel Haswell...

i3!

Lol, as far as we know, Intel is getting their butt handed to them iGPU wise. I hope we get the Per-core performance we need along with it. Hopefully AM3+ support too.

 

[youcanDUit]

what is steamroller? how does it work? what makes it good? can it compete with intel? why should i buy it? that's what i want to know. so far, it's all speculation.

Well this is the Speculation thread. The product hasn't launched yet.

what's the speculation? is there anything that holds merit? anything anyone knows for sure?

 

[de5_Roy]

[
what's the speculation? is there anything that holds merit? anything anyone knows for sure?

wouldn't be speculation if we knew for sure, would it?
the first page of this thread has a few links and more info scattered throughout the thread if you have time and effort(Lots of it) to look for them.

what we know for sure:
steamroller microarchitecture will be available in apu form first. kaveri apu (new a10 and a8 with new model numbers) will be the first amd product to feature SR cores. revealed kaveri apus have 2 modules capable of executing 4 threads with new amd integrated gpu based on gcn uarch. it will also have amd's hsa enhancements that are supposed to be helpful in certain workloads. if you're seeing unfamiliar acronyms, look them up in amd website or google.
desktop kaveri will fit on socket fm2+, a socket specific for kaveri due to it's redesign. socket fm2+ supports older trinity and richland apus. however, older socket fm2(notice the lack of '+') motherboards won't be able to run kaveri apus. amd has introduced a new motherboard chipset for kaveri - a88x.
kaveri will feature pcie gen 3.0 support with it's integrated pcie controller (on die).
amd's foundry partner global foundries will make these apus on their 28nm high performance node (forgot exact designation).
amd has revealed opterons based on berlin apu which is eerily similar to kaveri specs, except with server-specific features.

what we don't know:
cpu, igpu clockrates, type of substrate, real world performance, hsa's effectiveness, price, skus, global foundries' yields etc.

what we speculate over:
3-4M version, fd-soi, overclockability, what happened after strongly rumored internal cancellation, steamroller B cores, glofo's cooperation with amd, possibility of sr cpus (like FX), new socket, what we don't know etc.

these, more or less. there may be more, i coulda missed something as well.

 

[youcanDUit]

[
what's the speculation? is there anything that holds merit? anything anyone knows for sure?

wouldn't be speculation if we knew for sure, would it?
the first page of this thread has a few links and more info scattered throughout the thread if you have time and effort(Lots of it) to look for them.

what we know for sure:
steamroller microarchitecture will be available in apu form first. kaveri apu (new a10 and a8 with new model numbers) will be the first amd product to feature SR cores. revealed kaveri apus have 2 modules capable of executing 4 threads with new amd integrated gpu based on gcn uarch. it will also have amd's hsa enhancements that are supposed to be helpful in certain workloads. if you're seeing unfamiliar acronyms, look them up in amd website or google.
desktop kaveri will fit on socket fm2+, a socket specific for kaveri due to it's redesign. socket fm2+ supports older trinity and richland apus. however, older socket fm2(notice the lack of '+') motherboards won't be able to run kaveri apus. amd has introduced a new motherboard chipset for kaveri - a88x.
kaveri will feature pcie gen 3.0 support with it's integrated pcie controller (on die).
amd's foundry partner global foundries will make these apus on their 28nm high performance node (forgot exact designation).
amd has revealed opterons based on berlin apu which is eerily similar to kaveri specs, except with server-specific features.

what we don't know:
cpu, igpu clockrates, type of substrate, real world performance, hsa's effectiveness, price, skus, global foundries' yields etc.

what we speculate over:
3-4M version, fd-soi, overclockability, what happened after strongly rumored internal cancellation, steamroller B cores, glofo's cooperation with amd, possibility of sr cpus (like FX), new socket, what we don't know etc.

these, more or less. there may be more, i coulda missed something as well.

that's actually a lot. rumors quite often turn out to be true. any way of knowing when it should be released, if it releases?

 

[de5_Roy]

that's actually a lot. rumors quite often turn out to be true. any way of knowing when it should be released, if it releases?

if you look at what i wrote - those info trickeld out over a period of 2-3 years. shows how much amd is holding close to it's chest. unlike with BD where amd was on top of a proverbial tree. even a rumored benchmark only came out a few days ago.

no way to know until amd officially reveals specific launch dates. so far, all amd has said that kaveri is 'on track'. that's p.r. way of saying 'we'll get there when we get there'.

latest leaks and rumors suggest that a very late 2013 paper launch. desktop apus will be available first, mobile (i.e. laptop) apus will come out in q2 2014 or later. dt apus will be available in february-march.

amd is totally silent on possibility, availability of SR-FX cpus. not even a leak. for now, steamroller's only physical form will be in kaveri.

 

[con635]

I had a really hard time understanding mantle and what it does/supposed to do but read this link on oc.net and I think it may help some here as it helped me!
Maybe some of you more knowledgeable guys could give opinion? No more need for £££s worth of intel cpu to brute force past dx?? Could wee see similar benches on games for all cpus? ie i7 80fps, 760k 80fps both with same amd gpu?
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=69260

 

[noob2222]

for those that think cloud computing is the future ... take a look at how much information can be found in one spot.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/adobe-data-breach,news-17790.html

hackers won't go after personal computers for information, they will go for cloud services. why go for one person when you can get millions.

Cloud computing will be a hackers dream come true, its already starting.

 

[juanrga]

Decided to do some CB15 tests real quick and it's really easy to see the 20% efficiency hit the process takes when both cores are loaded on a module.

FX8350 @4.7Ghz
Multi: 727cb
Single: 110cb

727/8 = 90.875/110 = 82.61%

If AMD introduced a 2nd integer scheduler for the front end that revealed some of that efficiency hit, would explain the improvements. And even with a benchmark as biased as CB the fx8350 does remarkably well for it's price point.

I read in some place that r15 is not so biased as r11, but cannot confirm it now. In any case my main concern is that you are measuring two things with your test. You are measuring the intra-module bottleneck, 1C->2C, and the extra-module bottleneck 1M->4M.

Of course, the former bottleneck is larger than the second and it is a rather good approx. to assume that the entire 83% penalty comes from the intra-module bottleneck.

For measuring the intra-module bottleneck you have to run two threads in the same module and compare the result with two threads run in two cores in different modules.

 

[juanrga]

1. Your confusion about the word CISC was funny, but I was really referring to all the further nonsense that you posted against RISC/ARM.

2. The chip runs background processes to the game such as social stuff, recording, checking for online updates... it doesn't run the OS.

3. You said that that you "saw" PS4 benchmarks @2.6 Ghz, that you waited the "actual final specs will likely fall closer to the 2.4 mark, with possibly a turbo core feature to allow a higher clock under some instances that use fewer cores." Then you strongly misinterpreted the PS4 patents doc and said to everyone here that the CPU run at 2.75 GHz. Even hapidupi had to correct your nonsense. Hapidupi! LOL!

4. You claimed that bulk was impossible, that the people who said bulk was no working for AMD anymore, you insinuated that he didn't know the tech and pretended that the delay was caused by the migration to FD-SOI. When people complained. You did search and post a talk by Glofo and tried to convince us that FD-SOI was cheaper than bulk and AMD was going all SOI. "It is evident" you claimed...

5. Therefore you still insist on saying every novice that a SR FX 8-core CPU is coming for AM3+ and that AM3+ is a good platform for upgrade?

6. Easy. That is an ancient mobo with AM4 in the model code. Someone at the database did a mistake and indexed it as AM4 socket mobo. The rest is only in your imagination. It is not a new mobo with a new socket for a forthcoming 5GHz SR 8-core FX CPU...

I don't think you understand the points I was making about RISC/CISC, however, you don't have the architecture knowledge to understand it anyway. So, I am going to write this off as you simply don't understand. In gamer terms "Learn 2 Research".

My understanding is enough to detect your nonsense.

--------------------------------
You did not read a word I said:

2. Sony has confirmed an additional chip on the PS4 to run background processes, and the design lead for the entire project stated the OS would be run primarily off the GPU leaving 8 cores available for developing games. Do you think Sony's project lead was lying? Why would he? That information will be verifiable easily...

Can you read it better now?
--------------------------------

This is the second time that I read your nonsense. The question is: do you read? I don't know what is more funny, that you write "GPU" or that you don't understand that the OS runs on the jaguar cores in the APU and that the secondary chip in the PS4 runs background tasks to the game, such as decoding, downloading, social stuff...

There were ES benchmarks run @ 2.6 GHz, Jaguar cores will actually clock quite a bit higher than that, you know that right? They were likely testing to see what the thermal limits and power consumption would be. I did say that I suspected it would end up closer to ~2.2-2.4 GHz, than the 1.6 GHz many were claiming. By the way, what is the clockspeed on the PS4 APU? Just curious...oh...that's right...it's 2.0 GHz. Who was right?

Hum, let us see you claimed the PS4 runs at 2.75GHz, but that was plain nonsense. Sony did claim 1.6Ghz; therefore, you are off by more than 1GHz or about 72% of error.

I never said bulk was impossible...I did say it was improbable, and that there would be massive clockspeed and thermal penalties to going bulk. I was not wrong on any of those counts. Your poor mastery of the English language is showing.

No. You said us it was SOI. Someone wrote:

I believe that the 28nm process used for SR and Kaveri will be bulk but I'm not sure.

And your answer was:

No, it will be a PD-SOI process...from GloFo.

One thing is that you are wrong, but another is that you pretend now to hide what you wrote during months.

I tell them a SR FX replacement is coming, I also tell them I have no idea what socket, or in that regard, much of any information about it at all.

No. You said us that Steamroller FX is AM3+ socket. Someone asked "8350 or wait for Steamroller?" and your answer was:

The good news is though, if you buy an AM3+ board and a new CPU, you won't need to buy a new board for steamroller, it will be AM3+.

I wonder how many newbies followed your advice, believing that you know what you are writing.

It could very easily be the case, *very* easily; however, Foxconn should not be advertising AM4 socket MB drivers when no such product clearly exists. I was a bit curious when I saw that...and pointed it out to you and a few others to confer. The consensus, that it was not what it looked like, was reached before you ever wrote back to me.

There is no AM4 sockect mobo on Foxconn. I already explained there is a mistake in their indexing of an ancient mobo, but please ignore facts and continue fantasizing. It is much more funny.

i will just leave it here :

http://amdfx.blogspot.com/2013/10/amd-kaveri-benchmarks-more-steamrolling.html

If legit, it confirms that SR is ~30% faster than BD. Precisely in my estimation of kaveri performance I assumed a 30% faster than BD (or ~20% faster than PD) to show that Kaveri CPU would be at the i5 level of performance.

The regression in FP could be related to SR using a simplified (streamlined) FPU. This is not a serious problem because SR comes in HSA APUs where the GPU will be used as a giant FPU.

They're probably tweaking it to prepare for 256 bit FMAC FPUs (AVX2 instructions) in excavator and running into some issues. That would be my guess...

At least now you make clear that you are guessing.... lol

256-bit FMAC units don't make any sense for me, but of course AMD can prove me wrong.