AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[juanrga]

I am not impressed with ARM as their CPUs are very basic and do not require a lot of die space so moving to 10nm is probably very easy for them compared to moving a much more advanced and complicated x86 CPU like Intel or AMD has.

I still doubt they are much more ahead of Intel as they claim, remember Intel works a lot of stuff behind the doors and we wont know until they are near launch.

The new Nvidia Denver 7-wide cores are not simple designs, but of course I agree on that Denver core will be smaller than a big x86 core such as Haswell. However, Denver core will be larger than jaguar core, and this is a x86 core as well. Big ARM cores will be somewhere between small and big x86 cores.

But ARM didn't tape out a CPU but a SoC, therefore the comparison of the size of CPU cores is misleading. To put things in perspective the new Apple A7 is a dual-core SoC that measures 102mm^2 and has above 1B transistors whereas quad-core Kaveri has 2.4B transistors on less than 240mm^2. Thus dual-core Kaveri APU has about same size than A7 SoC.

The recent news that I mentioned just above about Intel delaying the 14nm node again implies that the gap with rest of foundries is vanishing.

 

[Cazalan]

The relevant part of Rajeeb Hazra quote is when he says "except that". As I said before to you an homogeneous system uses LCUs and those don't run "highly parallel applications" in an optimal way. However the KL runs "highly parallel applications" as a TCU. This is why he adds "except that". The KL is not a LCU as I have been saying you for days.

I agree on that his quote is a bit confusing.* If you pay attention to the rest of the interview he also says that KL:

does something quite remarkable, and can be seen as an inflection point in the evolution of heterogeneous computing.

As I said before, how Intel achieves heterogeneity (LCU+TCU) with the new KL is a mystery, because there is little data and some slides are contradictory. With data available today my hypothesis is that KL introduces something similar to BIG.little. The KL core has a cluster with OoO execution and a separate cluster with in-order execution.

I also mentioned you before that IBM is abandoning the homogeneous design in the IBlueGene/Q by a new heterogeneous architecture that is developing in collaboration with Nvidia. IBM will make the LCUs and Nvidia the TCUs

* The structure of his quote is similar to "I am always right, except when I make mistakes." You cannot take the part before "except" and pretend that the author is always right.

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Phi already boots from a BIOS and runs linux on each core on the PCI card version. It's not a great leap to be able to boot from a BIOS on a motherboard instead. It has homogeneous cores. The "except" part that you're reading too far into is in the same sentence. He was referring to "many-core". Many-core being far more cores (72) than typical homogenous CPUs (16).

This TCU/LCU thing is a more recent thing in HPC. You're trying to apply it to Intel when they took a different path with Phi, and got a lot of heat for it. Go back a couple years and the Green500 was dominated by homogenous Blue Gene/Q computers. What IBM/NVidia is doing in the future is irrelevant to what Intel is doing. IBM is divesting themselves from hardware and moving to services. First their low end PC business unit, then their low end server unit, and now their chip fab. They are reducing hardware costs so Power+NVidia makes sense for them. There is less work for them to do and NVidia will bend over backwards to remain relevant.

This is not to say Intel is abandoning heterogeneous HPC. They will offer both solutions because they can. Not all workloads have the same requirements. Intel doesn't care if you're buying $4000 Ivytown CPUs or $4000 Phi CPUs. They're getting paid either way. Phi CPU just gives them way more deployment options than they had before.

 

[jdwii]

^^ doesn't that mean.. that k10 indeed didn't scale much and a new uarch for 32nm( and lower nodes) was needed?

New details about Steamroller architecture given by AMD

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2Fcolumn%2Fkaigai%2F20140214_635132.html&act=url

http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/chips/320731-ivytown-steamroller-14-and-16nm-process-highlight-isscc

8350rocks, check the last part of the second link, because it also discusses tech process:

The Next Generation of Chip Process Tech
There were also a couple of presentations on the next generation of chip process technology, as almost all of the major chip makers have plans to move to 3D or FinFET production, at the 14 or 16nm node (following Intel, which is already shipping 22nm chips with such technology).

What's the point about talking about this when its already out i don't get it. For a second i thought it was about further improving the APU its just what's out already? Or am i missing somthing?

 

[juggernautxtr]

^^ doesn't that mean.. that k10 indeed didn't scale much and a new uarch for 32nm( and lower nodes) was needed?

New details about Steamroller architecture given by AMD

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2Fcolumn%2Fkaigai%2F20140214_635132.html&act=url

http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/chips/320731-ivytown-steamroller-14-and-16nm-process-highlight-isscc

8350rocks, check the last part of the second link, because it also discusses tech process:

The Next Generation of Chip Process Tech
There were also a couple of presentations on the next generation of chip process technology, as almost all of the major chip makers have plans to move to 3D or FinFET production, at the 14 or 16nm node (following Intel, which is already shipping 22nm chips with such technology).

What's the point about talking about this when its already out i don't get it. For a second i thought it was about further improving the APU its just what's out already? Or am i missing somthing?

steamroller A roll out possibility?maybe they have enough chips stocked up in apu's that they making hpdt version now?

 

[jimmysmitty]

I am not impressed with ARM as their CPUs are very basic and do not require a lot of die space so moving to 10nm is probably very easy for them compared to moving a much more advanced and complicated x86 CPU like Intel or AMD has.

I still doubt they are much more ahead of Intel as they claim, remember Intel works a lot of stuff behind the doors and we wont know until they are near launch.

The new Nvidia Denver 7-wide cores are not simple designs, but of course I agree on that Denver core will be smaller than a big x86 core such as Haswell. However, Denver core will be larger than jaguar core, and this is a x86 core as well. Big ARM cores will be somewhere between small and big x86 cores.

But ARM didn't tape out a CPU but a SoC, therefore the comparison of the size of CPU cores is misleading. To put things in perspective the new Apple A7 is a dual-core SoC that measures 102mm^2 and has above 1B transistors whereas quad-core Kaveri has 2.4B transistors on less than 240mm^2. Thus dual-core Kaveri APU has about same size than A7 SoC.

The recent news that I mentioned just above about Intel delaying the 14nm node again implies that the gap with rest of foundries is vanishing.

Intel didn't delay 14nm just chips running on it due to issues with yields.

As for ARM, that is true but you don't have to use just ARMs design, rather you use it as a basis and design around it. It still is much smaller and less zomplex than most x86 designs.

 

[colinp]

steamroller A roll out possibility?maybe they have enough chips stocked up in apu's that they making hpdt version now?

Doubtful if it isn't on any roadmap. I don't see any L3 there either.

 

[juanrga]

New details about Steamroller architecture given by AMD

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2Fcolumn%2Fkaigai%2F20140214_635132.html&act=url

http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/chips/320731-ivytown-steamroller-14-and-16nm-process-highlight-isscc

8350rocks, check the last part of the second link, because it also discusses tech process:

The Next Generation of Chip Process Tech
There were also a couple of presentations on the next generation of chip process technology, as almost all of the major chip makers have plans to move to 3D or FinFET production, at the 14 or 16nm node (following Intel, which is already shipping 22nm chips with such technology).

What's the point about talking about this when its already out i don't get it. For a second i thought it was about further improving the APU its just what's out already? Or am i missing somthing?

Spoiler

New details about Steamroller architecture given by AMD

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2Fcolumn%2Fkaigai%2F20140214_635132.html&act=url

http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/chips/320731-ivytown-steamroller-14-and-16nm-process-highlight-isscc

8350rocks, check the last part of the second link, because it also discusses tech process:

The Next Generation of Chip Process Tech
There were also a couple of presentations on the next generation of chip process technology, as almost all of the major chip makers have plans to move to 3D or FinFET production, at the 14 or 16nm node (following Intel, which is already shipping 22nm chips with such technology).

What's the point about talking about this when its already out i don't get it. For a second i thought it was about further improving the APU its just what's out already? Or am i missing somthing?

steamroller A roll out possibility?maybe they have enough chips stocked up in apu's that they making hpdt version now?

What is the problem with the links? AMD has just given more info and technical details about the Steamroller modules used in Kaveri, whereas Intel has given more info about Haswell.

 

[jimmysmitty]

What is the problem with the links? AMD has just given more info and technical details about the Steamroller modules used in Kaveri, whereas Intel has given more info about Haswell.

With both, none are really news. Everything listed about Haswell has been known since last year, same with the Steamroller modules in Kaveri.

We would rather get news on a non APU version of Steamroller and possibly Intels next CPU, Broadwell/the Haswell refresh.

 

[juanrga]

I am not impressed with ARM as their CPUs are very basic and do not require a lot of die space so moving to 10nm is probably very easy for them compared to moving a much more advanced and complicated x86 CPU like Intel or AMD has.

I still doubt they are much more ahead of Intel as they claim, remember Intel works a lot of stuff behind the doors and we wont know until they are near launch.

The new Nvidia Denver 7-wide cores are not simple designs, but of course I agree on that Denver core will be smaller than a big x86 core such as Haswell. However, Denver core will be larger than jaguar core, and this is a x86 core as well. Big ARM cores will be somewhere between small and big x86 cores.

But ARM didn't tape out a CPU but a SoC, therefore the comparison of the size of CPU cores is misleading. To put things in perspective the new Apple A7 is a dual-core SoC that measures 102mm^2 and has above 1B transistors whereas quad-core Kaveri has 2.4B transistors on less than 240mm^2. Thus dual-core Kaveri APU has about same size than A7 SoC.

The recent news that I mentioned just above about Intel delaying the 14nm node again implies that the gap with rest of foundries is vanishing.

Intel didn't delay 14nm just chips running on it due to issues with yields.

As for ARM, that is true but you don't have to use just ARMs design, rather you use it as a basis and design around it. It still is much smaller and less zomplex than most x86 designs.

Intel has delayed Broadwell due to problems with the 14nm fabrication process. It is not a problem with the chip but a problem with the node as Intel already admitted the past year

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2425855,00.asp

Intel is delaying the release of its first 14-nanometer processors, code named Broadwell, until the first quarter of 2014 due to higher-than-expected silicon wafer defects in the manufacturing process, the company said this week.

Last news are that the 14nm node is being delayed again

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/3163-intel-14nm-delayed-again.html

In fact Intel promised Altera full early access to its 14nm node and due to delays with the process, Altera is considering a switch to TMSC for fabricating its new chips.

The cores that I mentioned above are not from ARM but from Nvidia and Apple. I already showed than the recent dual-core ARM SoC from Apple is so complex and bigger as a dual-core Kaveri APU.

Also the complexity of the 7-wide custom core from Nvidia has little to envy to the most advanced x86 designs. Don't forget that Nvidia started designing a x86 core, but due to Intel not providing them a x86-license, Nvidia transformed it to ARM capable.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/174023-tegra-k1-64-bit-denver-core-analysis-are-nvidias-x86-efforts-hidden-within

 

[juanrga]

What is the problem with the links? AMD has just given more info and technical details about the Steamroller modules used in Kaveri, whereas Intel has given more info about Haswell.

With both, none are really news. Everything listed about Haswell has been known since last year, same with the Steamroller modules in Kaveri.

We would rather get news on a non APU version of Steamroller and possibly Intels next CPU, Broadwell/the Haswell refresh.

Except that during the 2014 IEEE talks, both AMD and Intel have given details that they didn't before. If you can link to an old article with the info in the IEEE slides, please do it.

How could AMD give news about a non-existent "non APU version of Steamroller"?

 

[con635]

What is the problem with the links? AMD has just given more info and technical details about the Steamroller modules used in Kaveri, whereas Intel has given more info about Haswell.

With both, none are really news. Everything listed about Haswell has been known since last year, same with the Steamroller modules in Kaveri.

We would rather get news on a non APU version of Steamroller and possibly Intels next CPU, Broadwell/the Haswell refresh.

I dont think there will be a non apu version now, maybe like an athlon with faulty/disabled igp pitched against celerons but no 'fx' steamroller with l3, the next intels will see most gains in igp. The future is hsa although from reading between lines in roadmaps the x86 side of carrizo could see a fair bump in performance.

 

[jdwii]

Juanrga when do you think Kaveri will be out on laptops i have a friend wanting 1, i might update my llano laptop with one as well

 

[juanrga]

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Phi already boots from a BIOS and runs linux on each core on the PCI card version. It's not a great leap to be able to boot from a BIOS on a motherboard instead. It has homogeneous cores. The "except" part that you're reading too far into is in the same sentence. He was referring to "many-core". Many-core being far more cores (72) than typical homogenous CPUs (16).

This TCU/LCU thing is a more recent thing in HPC. You're trying to apply it to Intel when they took a different path with Phi, and got a lot of heat for it. Go back a couple years and the Green500 was dominated by homogenous Blue Gene/Q computers. What IBM/NVidia is doing in the future is irrelevant to what Intel is doing. IBM is divesting themselves from hardware and moving to services. First their low end PC business unit, then their low end server unit, and now their chip fab. They are reducing hardware costs so Power+NVidia makes sense for them. There is less work for them to do and NVidia will bend over backwards to remain relevant.

This is not to say Intel is abandoning heterogeneous HPC. They will offer both solutions because they can. Not all workloads have the same requirements. Intel doesn't care if you're buying $4000 Ivytown CPUs or $4000 Phi CPUs. They're getting paid either way. Phi CPU just gives them way more deployment options than they had before.

You continue missing the point; bootable alone meaning nothing. Nvidia engineers have booted linux on a GPU, but it is still a TCU and thus far from optimal for running a OS. This is why Nvidia engineers are designing latency cores as well and not merely releasing a socketed version of the same GPU. Check the Tegra K1 it has CPU cores added to the Kepler GPU cores.

The example phrase that I provided also has the word "except" in the same sentence. Moreover, I provided you a quote from him mentioning that KL is an advance in "heterogeneous computing".

The first GPU-based supercomputers appeared about 2008 or so. CUDA is older than that. Not only already admitted that heterogeneous is the future

http://www.zdnet.com/intel-bets-on-heterogeneous-future-for-supercomputing-7000016957/

but they invented the term "neo-heterogeneity" for their own approach based in the Phi. It must be mentioned that "neo-heterogeneity" is a marketing term, because they are doing about the same heterogeneity than everyone else.

 

[jimmysmitty]

What is the problem with the links? AMD has just given more info and technical details about the Steamroller modules used in Kaveri, whereas Intel has given more info about Haswell.

With both, none are really news. Everything listed about Haswell has been known since last year, same with the Steamroller modules in Kaveri.

We would rather get news on a non APU version of Steamroller and possibly Intels next CPU, Broadwell/the Haswell refresh.

Except that during the 2014 IEEE talks, both AMD and Intel have given details that they didn't before. If you can link to an old article with the info in the IEEE slides, please do it.

How could AMD give news about a non-existent "non APU version of Steamroller"?

The original rumor was that Steamroller was to be the next after PD. And we all knew AMD was going to integrate its new design into APUs but never knew they were going to kill off the idea of a CPU only.

Of course things change over time and that's why rumors are rumors.

As for the fabrication, that is what I said. I said issues with yields which could be many things unless specifically stated. It could even be due to the arch itself, but more than likely is the process tech.

As for Apple/NVidia they are using ARM as the core design and adding, as I said ARM as a basis and adding on to it. Neither are fully their own designs like say Haswell or Pile Driver are for Intel and AMD.

And still in terms of complexity, Apples A7 does not yet have OoOE. Still it is ARM who is making the claim to 10nm, not Apple and it means ARMs designs are what they see on 10nm, not Apples or nVidias.

I would like to know who is fabbing the 10nm though.

 

[8350rocks]

Samsung is the only company I know of that has actually prototyped anything on 10nm, even then it wasn't a SoC...it was NAND memory, which is a completely different technology from CPU/APU/SoC of any kind. I have not heard anything from anyone about tape outs on 10nm, even Intel isn't getting what they want from 14nm.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Samsung is the only company I know of that has actually prototyped anything on 10nm, even then it wasn't a SoC...it was NAND memory, which is a completely different technology from CPU/APU/SoC of any kind. I have not heard anything from anyone about tape outs on 10nm, even Intel isn't getting what they want from 14nm.

I doubt Intel hasn't been pushing 10nm. No reason for them to really talk about it much since 14nm hasn't hit yet and it is still about 2 years away anyways.

A lot of stuff will go on in the dark without us even knowing until it is closer to launch.

For example, Intels 45nm. We knew they were working on it but the news of a new material, Hafnium, and gate tech, HK/MG, didn't hit until closer to launch.

 

[juggernautxtr]

Spoiler

I saw that today and about lost it. I thought with sales maybe they would list them for near MSRP and I might pick one up but nope. They jumped it up another $200.

AMD can sell Mantle all they want but there is no way justifying $900 bucks for a R9 290X with a good cooler on it.

If they don't find a way to get the pricing in check, like say make crypto mining versions and ones that don't crypto mine for gamers then they will lose a very important market.

I have heard of a site where you can get one for $600 but I have to research if it is legit or not. So far it seems legit but still $900 for a GPU that is beat by one for $750......

at least mantle is free to download and use.
with the new retail prices and mining craze, amd has no reason to lower msrp. not only that, amd is bringing back old, phased out gpus to take advantage of the craze. i am guessing anything with 1k shaders and higher and 256bit memory bus will get scooped up by the hopeful miners regardless of price. this has effectively killed the ongoing price war between amd and nvidia. now nvidia doesn't have to lower gfx card prices and amd doesn't have to bundle free games, hype isv relationships and update drivers, let alone lower prices. in the end, no one, incl. buyers outside u.s., will be able to buy higher end amd cards at a cheaper price for the time being. in other countries, price might remain closer to msrp, but they won't drop as before.

It is not AMD or say Asus upping the price but rather retailers. Asus stated the MSRP on the R9 290X DC2 is $579.99 and as I said I did find a site that is selling it for $598 which means that e-tailers like Newegg and such are doing the price gouging and effectively screwing their biggest market, enthusiasts.

It is also giving NVidia an advantage because if they keep their prices as is or drop them, more enthusiasts will buy them and when the crypto mining craze dies down, AMD might not be able to recover.

I am upset with Newegg TBH as I have always praised them, even when Amazon Prime had superior service. Newegg used to be where you went to get the best deals, cheaper than stores or other e-tailers.

Now they are just grubbing the money instead of providing a service and AMD is not going to do anything about it meaning if I want a R9 290X, which I do, then I am probably screwed.

read the reviews in newegg.lol
half the cards are getting rma'd cause the idiots are cooking them to death. i won't be buying any used cards. so if the rmaing continues like i think it will(obvious inadequate cooling) most of those miners are gonna be SOL with a fried card they pd 900 bucks for cause the manufacturers will start turning them down sooner or later. and i for one will not pay for a over heated chip, really not hard to tell if you look at the back side of the card cause it will color fade.

even my local fry's electronics has none on shelf, nothing from 7770's up.

 

[jimmysmitty]

read the reviews in newegg.lol
half the cards are getting rma'd cause the idiots are cooking them to death. i won't be buying any used cards. so if the rmaing continues like i think it will(obvious inadequate cooling) most of those miners are gonna be SOL with a fried card they pd 900 bucks for cause the manufacturers will start turning them down sooner or later. and i for one will not pay for a over heated chip, really not hard to tell if you look at the back side of the card cause it will color fade.

even my local fry's electronics has none on shelf, nothing from 7770's up.

I have. The Asus will be harder to tell since it is using a black PCB but also they tend to sell those as refurbished.

It is getting pretty ridiculous. Can't even buy a gaming GPU anymore. I used to think it was neat that AMD didn't do what NVidia normally does and disable compute on their gaming GPUs. Now I wish they did so the miners would target the FireGLs instead.

 

[jimmysmitty]

i Can still get 280 and 290x from ncix
r9-290x= 659.00 after rebate

http://products.ncix.com/detail/asus-radeon-r9-290x-directcu-74-93996-1382.htm

Too bad I am not in Canada......

 

[logainofhades]

i Can still get 280 and 290x from ncix
r9-290x= 659.00 after rebate

http://products.ncix.com/detail/asus-radeon-r9-290x-directcu-74-93996-1382.htm

Too bad I am not in Canada......

What does Canada have to do with it? NCIX has a US website too.

 

[de5_Roy]

read the reviews in newegg.lol
half the cards are getting rma'd cause the idiots are cooking them to death. i won't be buying any used cards. so if the rmaing continues like i think it will(obvious inadequate cooling) most of those miners are gonna be SOL with a fried card they pd 900 bucks for cause the manufacturers will start turning them down sooner or later. and i for one will not pay for a over heated chip, really not hard to tell if you look at the back side of the card cause it will color fade.

even my local fry's electronics has none on shelf, nothing from 7770's up.

i stopped reading ever since prices went up. shoulda kept up, i guess. the rma'ed cards - are they reference (incl. 3rd party cooling on ref. board) or 3rd party built altogether? i'd blame on user incompetence but i also know of gfx cards passing poorly handled quality check. i saw the latest examples in teardown of some r9 290/x cards. i know nvidia cards often have the same issue, but hawaii gpu is one bigass space heater.
i was expecting miners to "win" but i guess all sorts of customers are being losers and only winners are amd, nvidia and the retailers. and people who bought cards before the cryptocurrency mining craze explosion.

 

[jimmysmitty]

i Can still get 280 and 290x from ncix
r9-290x= 659.00 after rebate

http://products.ncix.com/detail/asus-radeon-r9-290x-directcu-74-93996-1382.htm

Too bad I am not in Canada......

What does Canada have to do with it? NCIX has a US website too.

The US site only has the R9 290X listed but not in stock. Not sure if you can order the one from the Canadian site or not and if they will even ship as their warehouses are probably located in Canada and, having worked for UPS International, it is not cheap to ship cross the border.

read the reviews in newegg.lol
half the cards are getting rma'd cause the idiots are cooking them to death. i won't be buying any used cards. so if the rmaing continues like i think it will(obvious inadequate cooling) most of those miners are gonna be SOL with a fried card they pd 900 bucks for cause the manufacturers will start turning them down sooner or later. and i for one will not pay for a over heated chip, really not hard to tell if you look at the back side of the card cause it will color fade.

even my local fry's electronics has none on shelf, nothing from 7770's up.

i stopped reading ever since prices went up. shoulda kept up, i guess. the rma'ed cards - are they reference (incl. 3rd party cooling on ref. board) or 3rd party built altogether? i'd blame on user incompetence but i also know of gfx cards passing poorly handled quality check. i saw the latest examples in teardown of some r9 290/x cards. i know nvidia cards often have the same issue, but hawaii gpu is one bigass space heater.
i was expecting miners to "win" but i guess all sorts of customers are being losers and only winners are amd, nvidia and the retailers. and people who bought cards before the cryptocurrency mining craze explosion.

I have a HD7970 which is pretty decent as it pushes about 700KH/s (most 290Xs push 950 at best, after markets hit about 850-890 depending on the card and settings). That said, these miners are crazy. A friend of mine is into it and he has dual R9 290s right now on a system and the top card runs at a constant 94c, these are the MSI after market ones as well.

The bottom one is fine but the top is crazy. I saw two HD7950s a while back and the top one of the dual pair had a PCB that was super discolored. Of course it also went bad.

I honestly think it sucks and gamers really can't afford that price at all. I doubt it is yield issues as it is the same 28nm so it is pretty mature. Sure more SPUs will cause it to have a bit worse yields than the HD 7970 but not to the point where the availability is near nothing.

 

[truegenius]

I have a HD7970 which is pretty decent as it pushes about 700KH/s (most 290Xs push 950 at best, after markets hit about 850-890 depending on the card and settings).

as per my suspicions, you want them for mining

i am also mining with my hd6770 and 1090t
but i undervolted them. Hd6770 is running @800MHz with only 0.95volts and 1090t is running at 3.2GHz with 1.2v and ram @800mhz cl5 with 1.2GHz NB, due to these settings combined power consumption of these will be below 150w and these run cool, GPU at 65'C max, cpu at 46'C max (stock heatsink), board at 57'C max. All of these to get 225KH/s that means only 30$ per month of profit ( actually i am doing this in hope of future rise in litecoin price )

considering taxes on goods , it looks like mining craze didn't hit prices in India
the cheapest r9-290x is available for around 700$ thats indeed cheap (considering that 290x is selling at upto 900$)

BTW i managed to get total 0.073 litecoins

 

[de5_Roy]

ltc mining *w*
*turns on hd4000*
i am so gonna get rich oh yea...

 

[truegenius]

I have a HD7970 which is pretty decent as it pushes about 700KH/s (most 290Xs push 950 at best, after markets hit about 850-890 depending on the card and settings).

as per my suspicions, you want them for mining

i am also mining with my hd6770 and 1090t
but i undervolted them. Hd6770 is running @800MHz with only 0.95volts and 1090t is running at 3.2GHz with 1.2v and ram @800mhz cl5 with 1.2GHz NB, due to these settings combined power consumption of these will be below 150w and these run cool, GPU at 65'C max, cpu at 46'C max (stock heatsink), board at 57'C max. All of these to get 225KH/s that means only 30$ per month of profit ( actually i am doing this in hope of future rise in litecoin price )

considering taxes on goods , it looks like mining craze didn't hit prices in India
the cheapest r9-290x is available for around 700$ thats indeed cheap (considering that 290x is selling at upto 900$)

BTW i managed to get total 0.073 litecoins

225 kilo/s, is that using cpu and gpu for mining or jjust gpu?

both
gpu with 20 intensity in guiminer gives 190kh/s (with 14 intensity it give 160kh/s) and 1090t with some console miner give 35kh/s which totals up to 225kh/s but using 150w only (because of the clock and voltage settings)

though gpu alone is capable of outputting around 225kh/s but at 990mhz speed which raises its temps to 95'C even with 100% fan speed