AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[etayorius]

I don`t think MANTLE was DOA, Activision and EA decided to support it fully... just EA and Activision account for at least 70% of all the games out there and Devs already claimed MANTLE will be stronger than DX12.

Like i previously said, if Rockstar truly gone with AMD like the rumors claim... MANTLE will gain massive amounts of Prestige.

 

[jdwii]

Mantle was pretty much already dead at launch, by the simple fact that is isn't supported by any other big GPU manufacturer.

Mantle did however make M$ start working on their next API, DX12.

Developers will normally go after the big market. We need to be realistic. Microsoft is the provider of the biggest API used worldwide.

It is an scumbagmove from nvidia, just ignoring an almost ready API which have shown to be better than DX11.

40 developer studies have joined to the SDK beta

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7985/amd-mantle-developer-private-beta-begins

And Microsoft is not anymore the provider of the biggest API:

Windows and Direct3D exert less influence over the total universe of game development now than perhaps at any previous point in history.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/179010-who-needs-directx-amd-nvidia-and-intel-team-up-demonstrate-ultra-low-overhead-opengl

Let's put this bluntly, there won't be a single PC game for the next 5 years that doesn't have directx, can't say the same for Mantle or OpenGL(which needs to be rewritten).

 

[jdwii]

^ That's good news to hear juan, hope Intel and Nvidia make their own API as well to compete with Amd, because as of right now i feel like when directx 12 comes out no one will be using mantle anymore. Be nice to see OpenGL rewritten as well. We need a High performing API that works on all platforms.

Except that you ignore that the author makes it explicit that they will continue supporting MANTLE and he cared to explain why:

1) DX12 only a subset of MANTLE performance.
2) "Strong interest in supporting platforms beyond Windows."
3) No word on whether DX12 is coming to Windows 7.
4) "From a business standpoint, it makes little sense to rely exclusively on Microsoft doing the right thing."
5) "Mantle is, for us, quite cheap to support."

Well that's nice for that one dev, but at the end of the day where will the majority of their market share come from? Mantle as of yet only works on Amd, that's the main issue. Directx 12 and OpenGL works on all 3. The market won't let Amd control 100% of everything. Nvidia will still be kicking them and Intel will be beating them in terms of sales for quite some time. I'm all for multiplatform competition but the reality is Microsoft won 20 years ago.

 

[juanrga]

40 developer studies have joined to the SDK beta

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7985/amd-mantle-developer-private-beta-begins

And Microsoft is not anymore the provider of the biggest API:

Windows and Direct3D exert less influence over the total universe of game development now than perhaps at any previous point in history.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/179010-who-needs-directx-amd-nvidia-and-intel-team-up-demonstrate-ultra-low-overhead-opengl

Let's put this bluntly, there won't be a single PC game for the next 5 years that doesn't have directx, can't say the same for Mantle or OpenGL(which needs to be rewritten).

FYI, "total universe of game development" != "PC game".

Well that's nice for that one dev, but at the end of the day where will the majority of their market share come from? Mantle as of yet only works on Amd, that's the main issue. Directx 12 and OpenGL works on all 3. The market won't let Amd control 100% of everything. Nvidia will still be kicking them and Intel will be beating them in terms of sales for quite some time. I'm all for multiplatform competition but the reality is Microsoft won 20 years ago.

Let me refresh your memory by telling you that you wrote "no one will be using mantle anymore"; thus I only need to quote one to show that what you wrote is untrue. Moreover, I am pretty sure that many of the 40 that joined the MANTLE beta think the same than the one I quoted, otherwise they wouldn't join.

 

[jdwii]

^ I understand i said i feel like no one will be using mantle no more. Learn to read right or is english not your native language? Also note that most people on this site probably don't care about anything beyond PC gaming or at the very least console+PC gaming.

 

[noob2222]

Someone really needs to look at the whole marketing campaign not just a small section of it.

AMDs quoted 10 over 7 is in one specific benchmark pitting the 8 core ARM opteron at an estimated clock speed of at least 2.5 ghz against the quad core 1.9ghz jaguar. Multiply that by 4 you get 10 to 7.6. Wow what a concept.

And where is this jaguar > pd? http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/amd-beema-mullins-architecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/3

Last I checked with cinebench the higher numbers meant faster.

Your "at least 2.5 ghz" is your pure invention.

Your mention of number of cores is irrelevant, because the 10 over 7 score given by AMD is per core. Overall throughputs were 80 over 28.1.

Your "jaguar > pd" is another epic reading fail from you. What I wrote was "Jaguar IPC > Piledriver IPC" and the source is

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/174980-its-time-for-amd-to-take-a-page-from-intel-and-dump-steamroller

Shhhhh...... marketing slides = truth. That is why Bulldozer was the superior CPU.

A relevant quote:

Bulldozer was without doubt an unmitigated failure. We know it.

It cost the CEO his job, it cost most of the management team its job, it cost the vice president of engineering his job. You have a new team. We are crystal clear that that sort of failure is unacceptable

reading fail: 1.5 ghz jaguar score 0.39, 2.2ghz puma scoring 0.54 > 2.3 ghz scoring 0.70 "What I wrote was "Jaguar IPC > Piledriver IPC"

totally because that 0.1 ghz is going to add like 1.5 to puma's score proving that "Jaguar IPC > Piledriver IPC"

extremetech ... rofl.

Calculating relative efficiency between Kabini, Kaveri, and Richland

Calculating efficiency with a bunch of unknown benchmarks ... as if all benchmarks are linear 1:1 with clock speed.

but lets apply their method to see how much truth is in their article.

0.39 score, 1.5ghz jaguar, upped to 2.3ghz pd (0.39/1.5*2.3=0.59) ... yep, its still wrong, Jaguar !> PD.

And for the record, ARM stated the a57 is targeted at 2.5 ghz, AMD stated their A1100 is >= 2 ghz

ya, pure invention that 2.5 ghz is >= 2 ghz

Lets look at something not marketing for a comparison.

http://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2012q1/cpu2006-20111219-19191.html

20W dual core 32nm xeon 1220L = 72.6, 25W A1100 8 core A57 28nm = 80 ... ARM A57 sure is impressive ... when fluffed by marketing. 8 cores (25w) to beat 2c/4t (20w) EOL technology IRL, but marketing would like you to not know any of that information, its a secret.

If you want to bring a conversation, try using something other than marketing hype.

 

[szatkus]

Someone really needs to look at the whole marketing campaign not just a small section of it.

AMDs quoted 10 over 7 is in one specific benchmark pitting the 8 core ARM opteron at an estimated clock speed of at least 2.5 ghz against the quad core 1.9ghz jaguar. Multiply that by 4 you get 10 to 7.6. Wow what a concept.

And where is this jaguar > pd? http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/amd-beema-mullins-architecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/3

Last I checked with cinebench the higher numbers meant faster.

Your "at least 2.5 ghz" is your pure invention.

Your mention of number of cores is irrelevant, because the 10 over 7 score given by AMD is per core. Overall throughputs were 80 over 28.1.

Your "jaguar > pd" is another epic reading fail from you. What I wrote was "Jaguar IPC > Piledriver IPC" and the source is

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/174980-its-time-for-amd-to-take-a-page-from-intel-and-dump-steamroller

Shhhhh...... marketing slides = truth. That is why Bulldozer was the superior CPU.

A relevant quote:

Bulldozer was without doubt an unmitigated failure. We know it.

It cost the CEO his job, it cost most of the management team its job, it cost the vice president of engineering his job. You have a new team. We are crystal clear that that sort of failure is unacceptable

reading fail: 1.5 ghz jaguar score 0.39, 2.2ghz puma scoring 0.54 > 2.3 ghz scoring 0.70 "What I wrote was "Jaguar IPC > Piledriver IPC"

totally because that 0.1 ghz is going to add like 1.5 to puma's score proving that "Jaguar IPC > Piledriver IPC"

extremetech ... rofl.

Calculating relative efficiency between Kabini, Kaveri, and Richland

Calculating efficiency with a bunch of unknown benchmarks ... as if all benchmarks are linear 1:1 with clock speed.

but lets apply their method to see how much truth is in their article.

0.39 score, 1.5ghz jaguar, upped to 2.3ghz pd (0.39/1.5*2.3=0.59) ... yep, its still wrong, Jaguar !> PD.

This A10-4600 has 3.2 GHz in turbo.

 

[noob2222]

^^

Doesn't mean that its actually 3.2 ghz.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested/4

 

[szatkus]

^^

Doesn't mean that its actually 3.2 ghz.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested/4

Neither 2.3 GHz. It's a single thread benchmark so it's probably at least 2.9-30 GHz.

Anyway I analyzed some benchmarks and looks like Piledriver's IPC is similar to Jaguar.

 

[noob2222]

aside from the fact that your not juan, thats the entire point. You cant calculate theoretical IPC by guessing at the actual clock speed. A flaw that easily makes up the 2-8% that jaguar IPC > Piledriver IPC according to a favorite extremetech article.

 

[esrever]

at 2.05ghz the kabini chip does 0.51 in cinebench 11.5

at 2.0 ghz my piledrive core does 0.59 that is at least 15% more performance/mhz
I ran this with only 1 module so the CPU turbo'ed to 2ghz.

 

[griptwister]

I wonder if Watch Dogs did the same with CPUs. If so, this kind of pisses me off... But I'll take it. Guess I'll have to hit Nvidia up for sure this upgrade cycle.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/37988/watch-dogs-performs-much-better-on-nvidia-gpus-amd-slips/index.html

 

[8350rocks]

Esrever, thank you for some sanity...

 

[8350rocks]

I wonder if Watch Dogs did the same with CPUs. If so, this kind of pisses me off... But I'll take it. Guess I'll have to hit Nvidia up for sure this upgrade cycle.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/37988/watch-dogs-performs-much-better-on-nvidia-gpus-amd-slips/index.html

Meh, I would wait on that NVidia upgrade...

 

[gamerk316]

uhm remember this?

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/02/17/amd-manju-hegde-gaming-physics/1

the only thing AMD gpu accelerated the past half a decade is "H A I R".

BELIEVE THE SLIDE, THE SLIDE IS REAL.

Did not Sony showed Havok calculating about 1,000,000 Objects through the PS4 GPU? Besides, AMD been doing Bullet for about 2 years... just not on the Mainstream Desktop Games Level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnwmsTokso

Skyrim can barely do 1,000 Objects with CPU Havok, add another 500 objects and the game will stop responding and CTD after several minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_gzGVWgWgQ

I don`t know about you... but the APU inside PS4 has an AMD Radeon GPU.

If i remember correctly, AMD been talking about GPU Physics and AI GPU soon after they announced MANTLE too, so they may be preparing an announcement for Physics and AI on Radeon GPU`s.

It`s been like 3 years since that article, besides Manju Hedge (Ageia), Erwin Coumans (Bullet & Sony) and some Japanese called Takahiro Harada have been working on AMD to bring some sort of OpenCL Physics to Radeon GPUs.

The problem is AMD is approaching physics piecemeal. Rather then making a robust API that can be used for everything, they're making different API's to do one specific thing (TressFX, anyone?). That's why TressFX is already dead.

And yes, Havok craps out after so many objects; the CPU simply can't handle the strain. That's why I was a very early supporter of PhysX, back in the Ageia days. Problem is, having the GPU do physics while also doing rendering is too much for the GPU to handle. Hence why the PPU/Second GPU is the prefered method, but even then, you're limited too much by the HW.

 

[gamerk316]

CPU loads from the review of the new OpenGL game Wolfstein. The game scales well up to six-cores with an overall load of 63% at tested res. (load would be higher at 1080p)

Here Intel loads:

Spoiler

Why spoiler the better looking Intel numbers? Would be interesting to see how the 2500k (or another quad without HTT) looked like...Also, why bench the older 2600k?

Hence why I hate GameGPU; they bias AMD.

 

[gamerk316]

It makes me laugh when people claim AMD with their limited resources Copied DX12 and somehow manage to steal, release it 2 years before MS announced DX12 (with their unlimited pockets) hahaha... yeah right, how come no dev house knew about DX12 before the announcement? the only one claiming DX12 been in Development for 4 years it`s... NVIDIA, and we all know how fair and trustworthy they are, i smell butthurt coming from nVidia to anything regarding MANTLE, they even outright lied with their DX drivers beating MANTLE haha... there are several articles regarding this massive Lie, but i am not bothering this time, and i am not a fanboy, i like AMD and nVidia (i don`t like Intel at all however) but maybe AMD a little more because they are less of jerks compared to nVidia and are really cool to have allowed me the TressFX Gimmicks on my GeForce, nVidia are known to play very dirty and unfair when ever they are cornered.

Dev's don't get told about API development until the API gets finalized, which didn't happen until a few weeks before it was revealed. Hence the demo running DX12 at the reveal, which was done after the spec got finalized.

I'll say it again: AMD "borrowed" parts of the spec, claimed there would be no DX12 while everyone who knew otherwise was under NDA and couldn't refute the claim, then released the most performance friendly parts early for their own financial gain. And because they released first, MSFT obviously stole from AMD, despite the fact that the API hadn't been publicly released yet for them to steal in the first place!

 

[gamerk316]

Microsoft is the provider of the biggest API used worldwide.

Er, I think you'll find that OpenGL in its various forms is the most widely adopted API.

Due to legacy SW and non-Windows platforms. No one on Windows uses GL by choice. It's a piece of crap.

Seriously: Junk it, because you can't fix it.

 

[etayorius]

uhm remember this?

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/02/17/amd-manju-hegde-gaming-physics/1

the only thing AMD gpu accelerated the past half a decade is "H A I R".

BELIEVE THE SLIDE, THE SLIDE IS REAL.

Did not Sony showed Havok calculating about 1,000,000 Objects through the PS4 GPU? Besides, AMD been doing Bullet for about 2 years... just not on the Mainstream Desktop Games Level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnwmsTokso

Skyrim can barely do 1,000 Objects with CPU Havok, add another 500 objects and the game will stop responding and CTD after several minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_gzGVWgWgQ

I don`t know about you... but the APU inside PS4 has an AMD Radeon GPU.

If i remember correctly, AMD been talking about GPU Physics and AI GPU soon after they announced MANTLE too, so they may be preparing an announcement for Physics and AI on Radeon GPU`s.

It`s been like 3 years since that article, besides Manju Hedge (Ageia), Erwin Coumans (Bullet & Sony) and some Japanese called Takahiro Harada have been working on AMD to bring some sort of OpenCL Physics to Radeon GPUs.

The problem is AMD is approaching physics piecemeal. Rather then making a robust API that can be used for everything, they're making different API's to do one specific thing (TressFX, anyone?). That's why TressFX is already dead.

And yes, Havok craps out after so many objects; the CPU simply can't handle the strain. That's why I was a very early supporter of PhysX, back in the Ageia days. Problem is, having the GPU do physics while also doing rendering is too much for the GPU to handle. Hence why the PPU/Second GPU is the prefered method, but even then, you're limited too much by the HW.

It makes me laugh when people claim AMD with their limited resources Copied DX12 and somehow manage to steal, release it 2 years before MS announced DX12 (with their unlimited pockets) hahaha... yeah right, how come no dev house knew about DX12 before the announcement? the only one claiming DX12 been in Development for 4 years it`s... NVIDIA, and we all know how fair and trustworthy they are, i smell butthurt coming from nVidia to anything regarding MANTLE, they even outright lied with their DX drivers beating MANTLE haha... there are several articles regarding this massive Lie, but i am not bothering this time, and i am not a fanboy, i like AMD and nVidia (i don`t like Intel at all however) but maybe AMD a little more because they are less of jerks compared to nVidia and are really cool to have allowed me the TressFX Gimmicks on my GeForce, nVidia are known to play very dirty and unfair when ever they are cornered.

Dev's don't get told about API development until the API gets finalized, which didn't happen until a few weeks before it was revealed. Hence the demo running DX12 at the reveal, which was done after the spec got finalized.

I'll say it again: AMD "borrowed" parts of the spec, claimed there would be no DX12 while everyone who knew otherwise was under NDA and couldn't refute the claim, then released the most performance friendly parts early for their own financial gain. And because they released first, MSFT obviously stole from AMD, despite the fact that the API hadn't been publicly released yet for them to steal in the first place!

No they did not, it is impossible for AMD to run ahead with a MS "Idea" and manage to release it 2 years before with their extremely limited resources, simply impossible... what you are saying it`s seriously a Lie:

http://www.oxidegames.com/2014/05/21/next-generation-graphics-apis/


Oxide:
"We heard nothing of the development of a new version of D3D12 until sometime after the early tests of Mantle were indicating that this radically different API model could work, and work well – data which we shared with Microsoft. What prompted Microsoft to redesign DX is difficult to pin down, but we’d like to think that it would never have happened if Mantle hadn’t changed the game."

Even AMD has been begging MS to go Low Level FOR AGES, it`s known history... Gosh dude, you really really, like... REALLY hate AMD don`t you? getting tired of your same rant over and over and over and OVER... and over... its just like Juanrga with ARM, but at least he is not on the watch waiting for one Corp or another to make the slightest move to piss on any of them.

I have a feeling DX12 was completely different from what MS announced recently, probably it was just few more Fancy Features... when AMD announced MANTLE and devs yelled at MS for their ancient API, they had no choice but rebuild it from the ground with "MANTLE" like features, hence why it will be released in late 2015 with games arriving early-mid 2016, there are even several articles claiming the contrary of what you are spreading, and that DX12 is actually MANTLE disguised as a new DirectX version.

If that does not makes sense too you or rather that prefer to continue your Anti-AMD rants and call Oxide a bunch of BS Liars... here`s what Oxide got for you:

Oxide:
"Oxide’s door is still open to other forward-looking APIs. Should Nvidia or Intel create an API that is as functional and straightforward to use as Mantle, we’d be more than happy to support it. Oxide doesn’t play favorites here. We recognize the passion of PC gamers. We recognize the amount of time and money players invest in their PC, and are committed to doing whatever we can to get the most out of whatever hardware our fans are running."

Just NO, you need to start giving AMD credit for all the new cool things going around in the PC industry... i have pissed on AMD too on this same thread, where everyone on this thread went ape on me saying i was spreading Pro-INTEL Propaganda after i posted the "leaked" info about AMD skipping Steamroller FX, and i have said before i will not buy INTEL ever again... but it`s not like i hate them and want them to fail just like you want AMD to just fade and wither... but it seems your prediction about "MANTEL DOA" was a complete fail, i given you credit before because you were right in regard to Kaveri being Bulldozer 2.0 as i expected Kaveri to be on i5 2500 level, but regarding this topic you are just plain wrong, and what is more funny is that you have no way of proving your claims that MANTLE stole/copy pasted DX12 code, there is a good reason why AMD went ahead and got greedy with the Consoles, that same move ties it with MANTLE.

If AMD copied DX12 why the hell MANTLE is here NOW 2 years ahead from DX12 while also being more powerful and efficient just as Oxide, DICE and other devs claims?

Regarding TressFX, i don´t think it´s even dead as of now, and even nVidia was able to ramp up performance thanks to TressFX being open source, so nVidia just had to sneak in and copy/modify their code for their GPU´s, time will tell if you were right on TressFX, and if you need to be given credit for that i will, but regarding "MANTEL"... i don´t think anyone will be Crediting you for the prediction of MANTEL being a ripoff of DX12, just as your prediction that it was DOA failed miserably.

Perhaps you did not see how a lot of devs went ape against nVidia and their horrible "GameWorks" Scheme, i have not seen you comment on GameWorks at least once... now that thing is EVIL... why not give some of your usual love for AMD to GameWorks too? perhaps you could find a nice name like "MANTEL" for that abomination too... how come MANTEL is so bad for Devs as you claim, yet you ignore GameWorks is completely? someone just posted a bench with the 290X against a lowly 770, and we all know the 290X even manages to beat the Titan in some benchmarks and this is the type of BS that really hurt Devs and Gamers, so for once take a step back on AMD and direct your attention at GameWorks, it will be a nice new change for once.

 

[palladin9479]

Dev's don't get told about API development until the API gets finalized, which didn't happen until a few weeks before it was revealed. Hence the demo running DX12 at the reveal, which was done after the spec got finalized.

You and I both know this is complete bullsh!t.

Outside dev's are often actively involved in the creation of new API's and there are many alpha stage releases to those developers to play around with and submit comments back to the API's developer. Your version of events is illogical and breaks continuity. Hell time machines start becoming a requirement if one thinks on that tangent long enough. AMD was announcing Mantle long before it was released and if DX12 had been in development anywhere near as long as you claim then Microsoft would of been announcing it as well. Feature sets such as those aren't hidden away in some backroom closet. These companies are publicly traded companies, stock price is a driving factor in their marketing decisions and they market these "developments" as ways to increase that same stock price.

The most you can possibly claim is that MS would of been developing "something" but wasn't solid on it until AMD started ramping up Mantle for public release. Then MS would of had to put out some news announcement to prevent a perceived loss of their premier market position.

Occam's razor being what it is and all.

 

[griptwister]

@8350rocks, I liked the tone on that comment... Maybe I will wait. Secretly hoping AMD pulls out RAM stacks and higher efficiency this year. GCN 2.1? I don't want to end up like the GTX 680 users and getting a mamed 780.

I'm holding out for a GPU with a lot of VRAM and hopefully will run most games @60FPS 1440P. I might go for dual GPUs if budget permits. I cant hit the upgrade cycle on a GPU for black friday anyhow. But I should have money for a "Higher" end card

@etayorius, Don't worry about gamerk316. I think he's just trying to dispel the BS and the fanboyism in this thread. I'm not as against Intel and Nvidia as I was previously. But Nvidia's whole thing with watchdogs make me question their ethics. Questionable at best. I'm really curious to see what the CPU numbers look like.

 

[palladin9479]

But Nvidia's whole thing with watchdogs make me question their ethics. Questionable at best. I'm really curious to see what the CPU numbers look like.

No company is ethical or has any kind of moral compass. The only duty of companies is to make money for their owners. What you often see is companies in different positions will make different moves based on what helps them best. Intel and nVidia are both in strong dominate positions, they don't need to "become dominate" and so they pursue tactics to maintain dominance. Becoming dominate involved inventing or creating products that are better then the current dominate ones, maintaining dominance involves ensuring nobody else makes or markets a product that beats yours. The difference is subtle but it's important to note that preventing competition is often cheaper then beating competition. The non-dominate member can not win by preventing competition, so they often try an open competition-orientated approach that puts them on more equal footing with the dominant member. The dominate member gains nothing from open competition and will attempt a closed proprietary approach that creates barriers for non-dominate members. It's the difference between attack and defend.

So if we were to magically reverse the position of AMD and Intel, we would see AMD/ATI doing the same things as Intel / nVidia are doing now. It's why I don't maintain loyalty nor to any company.

The above is also why Mantel MUST become open. And I mean open as in free to implement for third party vendors. AMD is not in a dominate position, defending a product development won't win them more market share or profit. Their only option to to attack by developing newer products and spreading them as fast as possible, which entails making any standards open and free to implement.

 

[de5_Roy]

mantle and enduro work together finally. amd is staggering, fumbling and sometimes neglecting. but they are very slowly getting close to aligning the stars.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8058/amd-catalyst-146-beta-drivers-now-available-adds-new-eyefinity-functionality-more
may be use one of these monitors with the new drivers?
http://www.techpowerup.com/201230/28-inch-uhd-iiyama-monitor-with-1-ms-response-time-shows-up-online.html

mobile kaveri spec details
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8053/amd-kaveri-specs

AMD drops support for Microsoft’s Windows 8
http://semiaccurate.com/2014/05/26/amd-drops-support-windows-8/
LOL

@etayorius: the "limited resources" excuse only works if they're as small as companies like oculus rift's developers or calxeda. not for amd. amd is smaller, but they have vastly more resources (funding, experience, expertise, market penetration and marketshare etc.) than small companies, even after their restructuring.

 

[jdwii]

I wonder if Watch Dogs did the same with CPUs. If so, this kind of pisses me off... But I'll take it. Guess I'll have to hit Nvidia up for sure this upgrade cycle.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/37988/watch-dogs-performs-much-better-on-nvidia-gpus-amd-slips/index.html

Yeah i went with Nvidia over Amd this time around i love my 770 now i want to upgrade my 1100T to a 8350fx if you look at watch dogs its actually 40% better, the truth is this new design is being used in next gen consoles to Piledriver still hangs really if they made a high end excavator part it would probably beat the I7 in most next gen games.

 

[juanrga]

^ I understand i said i feel like no one will be using mantle no more. Learn to read right or is english not your native language? Also note that most people on this site probably don't care about anything beyond PC gaming or at the very least console+PC gaming.

And still native english developers disagree with your "feelings"... :lol:

The quote about the "total universe of game development" was included because "PC gaming" is not an isolated island. Or do you believe that when I mentioned server roadmaps it was because most people here care about servers? Nope. I mentioned the server roadmap because was telling us that no FX Steamroller was coming to the "PC gaming".