AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

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logainofhades

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Had Kaveri been designed in a way where it could also use memory embedded on a motherboard, you could have motherboards with dedicated graphics memory like you find in some laptops with discrete GPU's that are a part of the mainboard. The GPU performance would have been far better.
 
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Interesting. Special chip, or can we expect 5GHz on air this gen?
 

juanrga

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I had a long discussion with you about DDR and GDDR memories. As I stated then DDR5 doesn't exist. Thus the image show either a typo or a sloppy marketing team. The card uses GDDR5.



Quad-channel for mobile is too expensive and costly in area/power terms.

AMD original plan was to use GDDR5 as system RAM, not as VRAM only for the iGPU. Your suggestion is not awesome because breaks hUMA, HSA, and complicates compute as I already explained to you before.
 

blackkstar

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For the price, you can usually get a high end Intel CPU with a high end Nvidia or AMD dGPU.

If you're thinking between an Iris laptop or a desktop, you can basically buy an FX 8320 with a 290x for the same price.

Mobile Kaveri is going to see a lot of $400 Intel being compared to $150 AMD and then people going "WOW AMD FAILED AGAIN!" Get ready everyone, it's coming.

As for the API discussion, it's important. AMD is making a very strong effort to add value to their hardware with software. It is the same type of thing Nvidia does with PhysX, CUDA, Shadowplay, etc. It's a very good strategy and if AMD found themselves in a position where they had a huge advantage in Linux gaming thanks to Mantle or whatever, it would at least move some chips.

I was reading on Slashdot this morning and someone put the Nvidia vs AMD GPU thing rather well. Nvidia is like Internet Explorer. It doesn't follow standards properly and it has lots of quirks people work around, yet it's the primarily supported platform. Meanwhile AMD is like Firefox, it follows the standards but it pays for that by not accommodating Nvidia's quirks. I'd even argue that Intel CPUs function the same way and AMD is in a position where they currently have to emulated Intel's quirks or get blow out.

AMD pushing software like they are is them trying to escape that position they're in. I forget if I've mentioned it here before, but Nvidia and Intel have AMD in a position where AMD has smaller R&D budgets yet they're forced to basically compete in a way where they have to one up Nvidia and Intel by doing what they do, just better. And when you have a smaller budget, sometimes by a huge amount, the odds of that happening are not so great.

So enter Mantle and such to try and save the day for AMD by letting AMD do software how they want. Yes it has problems, gamerk has mentioned them. Why optimize for AMD when it's the minority?

The idea is to offer provocative things to the developers to lure them in. Easy cross-platform ports is a big one.

AMD is even at a disadvantage here. Nvidia and Intel can gain support by paying people off. AMD really doesn't make enough money to go up to a company like HP and go "we'll sell you these chips for really cheap, meet your demand, and give you tons of support, but you can't put Intel in nice models" but Intel can (and does).

But AMD is doing what it can by offering people what they want. You can see the clear distinction in the way that Nvidia comes along and ramrods things down people's throats and then pays them to use those features while AMD gets developers to come to them.
 

juanrga

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Precisely the replies by Lottes and Sellers to the recent criticism of OGL was that the critics were showing a lack of familiarity with modern OGL. Seller exact words were: "Much criticism is based on dated knowledge."

AMD couldn't release GDDR5 support for mobile kaveri, because the reason why it was dropped for desktop was that one of the two companies fabricating the SO-DIMMs was out of business and a second source for memory modules was required for commercial reasons.
 

juanrga

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Special golden chip, no doubt.

The "over 5.5GHz" is only for 1-core 1-thread. When all the cores and threads are active nobody surpassed 5.5GHz with ordinary cooling. Also I am having difficulties to find the supposed record that every tech site is parroting. I only can find a winning submission from the MSI team, but the achieved 5498.72 MHz record used liquid cooling.

Thus can anyone give me the link to the submission of supposed 5.5GHz record on air, please?
 

colinp

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AMD's countdown timer has reached 0.

http://ifitcanreachspace.com/

So basically, somebody fu-ed up. Either the person who communicated the time to the review sites for the embargo to be lifted or the person who coded the countdown timer (and who left all the info in the website code for all to see).
 

bad timing, geddit?
 
It's a very good strategy and if AMD found themselves in a position where they had a huge advantage in Linux gaming thanks to Mantle or whatever, it would at least move some chips.

Except for AMD's horrid driver situation on Linux. NVIDIA's driver is far and ahead of AMD's at the moment.
 

colinp

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No it isn't.
 
Interesting. Special chip, or can we expect 5GHz on air this gen?[/quotemsg]

Special golden chip, no doubt.

The "over 5.5GHz" is only for 1-core 1-thread. When all the cores and threads are active nobody surpassed 5.5GHz with ordinary cooling. Also I am having difficulties to find the supposed record that every tech site is parroting. I only can find a winning submission from the MSI team, but the achieved 5498.72 MHz record used liquid cooling.

Thus can anyone give me the link to the submission of supposed 5.5GHz record on air, please?

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/183708-overclockers-push-new-devils-canyon-haswell-to-5-5ghz-on-air-6-4ghz-with-ln2
 

8350rocks

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Honestly on Linux, they just need to catch up on feature implementation. What they do have out works just fine with the most common distros. The issue is getting features implemented...(which is supposedly coming)
 

h2323

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I really hope Texas Instruments buys AMD, they could use a re-badge and cash to really take on the industry going into 2015.
 

lilcinw

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That article has a link to the contest rules on HWBOT which includes the following:

The CPU cooling unit must be a retail All-In-One (“AIO”) water cooler. Custom loops are not allowed. The active cooling components must be the AIO.

Calling this air cooling is ridiculous.
 

8350rocks

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Agreed, something like a H110 or Kraken x60 is a bit more than "air"
 

juanrga

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The ExtremeTECH article links to the contest submission that list water/LN2 frequencies. The 5.5GHz 'on air' that everyone is parroting actually used water cooling. This is the awarded MSI submission

http://hwbot.org/submission/2558155

Thanks by confirming that Intel tweet that you reproduced is just untrue.
 

juanrga

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But the x86 license is not transferable. If someone buys AMD, AMD loses the ability to build x86 chips.
 
AMD releases mobile Kaveri in Pro and FX forms
http://semiaccurate.com/2014/06/04/amd-releases-mobile-kaveri-pro-fx-forms/
the pci-sig should come up with a power efficient interconnect for laptops and tablets before they fade into irrelevance (in mobile sector) from all the integration.
s/a also expands on why amd chose to fully enable only one sku and how clockrates are set on the mobile apus. glofo still has room for improvement.

Kaveri APUs land in three HP EliteBook laptops
http://techreport.com/news/26566/kaveri-apus-land-in-three-hp-elitebook-laptops

hardwarecanucks mobile kaveri preview
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/66573-kaveri-mobile-apus-amds-fx-reincarnated.html
hothardware's
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-Kaveri-Mobile-Launch-FX7600P-Performance-Preview/
pcper's
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Kaveri-Mobile-Preview-AMD-FX-7600P-Performance

20nm Volume Production Finally Begins at TSMC – 20nm Nvidia and AMD GPUs become a real possibility
http://wccftech.com/tsmc-begins-20nm-volume-production-gpus-node/
amd and nvidia should really look for a second source for gpus. glofo and/or samsung.

TSMC reportedly to tie up with Micron to develop 3D ICs
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140603PD214.html

 

colinp

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I would really love to see that 35W FX chip in a real production laptop, it looks excellent as an affordable, single chip solution. The only significant blot on its copy book is the underwhelming single core performance.

35W seems like the sweet spot for Kaveri; the returns diminish very quickly as you increase TDP. It's plain for all to see why AMD are targeting lower maximum TDP for future chips. Maybe the bulk process simply doesn't scale well.
 

juanrga

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Kaveri A10-7850k will not break world records, but average OC on air is 4.5GHz, which is the same frequency achieved by A10-5800k on air. The FX-8350 hits 4.7GHz. The A10-6800k using mature process hits 4.9GHz.

The real problem for AMD is memory bottleneck. This is why initial design considered GDDR5 memory for top APUs. And it is also why faster APUs from Intel use L4 cache.

Being stuck at slow DDR3/4 by now, AMD cannot improve performance (cannot release a 150W APU that was 50% faster), thus it is better for them to improve efficiency by lowering TDP and using fastest available memory (e.g. DDR3-2133MHz) for those APUs.
 

colinp

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One thing I've not found on any review site is a clear explanation of why 30W (or even 50W) additional TDP gains you so little in terms of moving from the A8 7600 to the A10 7850. The top end Richlands and Trinities were clearly ahead of the lower power SKUs, but this isn't the case for Kaveri. Kaveri's sweet spot definitely seems to be in the 35-45W range.
 
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