AMD CPUs, SoC Rumors and Speculations Temp. thread 2

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I'm guessing we won't hear anything on that until after Zen is out- one thing I've noticed is that share prices start to decline whenever a tech company doesn't have anything 'new' on the horizon. I think AMD in the past have mis managed things from that view as they have a tendency to reveal *everything* in one big lump and then it becomes old news quickly. That is something more recently they appear to be getting better at- I mean look at the fury launch, Fury X, short wait, Fury, short wait, Nano and now we have Fury X2 due. All these launches keep AMD in the news and remind investors they're still working on things.

I expect a similar strategy next year with Arctic (apparently 2 totally new gpu's, however there will invariably be multiple models and I expect AMD to stagger the releases again, then once that's all finished with they'll launch Zen...)
 


Only 'news' is that Seronx and Desdrenboy (same user that leaked details from Zen GCC patch) found some AMD patents related to ARM processor and suggest that K12 could have 3 AGUs.
 


Yeah, i gave that some thought as well, but there is no product in sight that will use the node before Zen is out. Closest thing will be Apple and TSMC's weird 16nm process based on similar materials. So, that means we will have to just sit and wait patiently until GF or AMD release some news/leaks about speeds and process quality.

Cheers!
 
Rumor: Possible AM4 platform launch in March 2016

http://www.planet3dnow.de/cms/21487-geruecht-launcht-amd-zen-deutlich-eher-als-bisher-angenommen/

Probably just desktop Carrizo APU on AM4 though.
 
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ps4-cpu-seventh-core-unlocked,30662.html

Few days old. dosent the ps4 have a ARM coprocessor for OS tasks and 256mb ram for that ARM apu?

this is how sony and msft planed to make games better after having the same system for 3 years without getting a new system.

This was my suspicion all along. so in 2016 the 8th core will be unlocked and all of a sudden the ps4 gets an unknown performance boost? ha!

also good job with that find @cazalan!

Cheers!
 


Translated via google translate

AMD's next processor architecture Zen has been inflected on the home stretch. Tape outs of the chip have been made, AMD seems to be satisfied with the result and everyone is gearing up for a product launch in the coming year. So far you go, however, from a launch towards the end of 2016, pessimists see even the beginning of 2017 as a possible start time to be realistic.

Since Zen is based on a new CPU socket including DDR4 support, logically new motherboards have to be presented. Therefore we inquired at the motherboard manufacturer if accurate information is already available around the new product generation eagerly awaited. The manufacturer of a reply containing an interesting information: The internal schedule of the provider assumes a launch in March 2016. This would Zen, depending on the approach, appear between one half and one whole year rather than currently expected.

What sounds at first sight almost too good to be true, the confirmation of the rumor could be simply that Zen first appears as Opteron for server and desktop market is served later. It is also conceivable that it is an outdated version at internal schedule of the manufacturer. On the one hand Zen had originally been expected in early 2016 and on the other hand we have not received the "good news" only from a motherboard manufacturer. In this respect, there are still all the variants in the realm of possibility.

Both from the perspective of AMD as well as from the perspective of end users is a fastest possible launch of Zen desirable. AMD can use every euro and the customer would be more alternatives in the CPU area. Therefore, we hope that at least some truth in the March announcement and us in this regard awaits a hot spring. Zud
 
So, modify a current APU to fit AM4 and slap some DDR4 support into the IMC while we wait for Zen and swear it will fit the exact same socket? Uhm... I don't like stop gap releases, if that is the case. Then again, I like the premise of having boards out before Zen and work quirks before the actual release.

Interesting rumor.

Cheers!
 


Carrizo on AM4 isn't a rumor, that is in the roadmap. The rumor is the introduction date.

Carrizo IMC already supports DDR4 (See page 85). They just need a more modern South Bridge.

http://support.amd.com/TechDocs/50742_15h_Models_60h-6Fh_BKDG.pdf



 
MAJOR news that is going to shake CPU design going forward: MSFT Server 2016 to start charging licenses per-core, rather then per-socket:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/12/windows-server-2016-moving-to-per-core-not-per-socket-licensing/

So the cost per CPU core for large companies just went up several orders of magnitude. This is likely going to increase demand of CPUs with fewer, more powerful cores going forward. This is frankly horrible news for AMD.

EDIT

Things have been moving in this direction for some time now, though it's sad it's finally happened within Windows itself. MSFT is frankly shooting themselves in the foot, since there's likely going to be a general migration toward Linux now.

I wouldn't be shocked either if this eventually makes it's way back into the consumer space as well.
 


No.

First, Microsoft Server OS is unpopular among servers. Second, per core licenses are well-established in other systems, and core count has increased, check last Oracle chip, for instance. The reason? See second point.

Second, we are beyond the return point on the old paradigm of "few more powerful cores". You can spend 50% more transistors and you are lucky if you get 5% gain in single thread. Only way to evolve is via explicit parallelism. Everyone is moving to "moar cores" including Intel.

AMD servers are moving from 16 core (Piledriver Opteron) up to 32 core (Zen Opteron).

Intel servers are moving from 14 core (Haswell Xeon) up to 28 core (Skylake Xeon).

AMD will not be in a "horrible" situation.
 


I doubt that, especially when you are looking at applikation servers. Having done 2nd level support for a number of applications (all related to selling or producing vehicles) for a few years now, with a lot of these application being deeply dependent on each other (because why develop something dedicated on it's own hardware, when you can attach it to an exiting system that is already overloaded. Gotta safe money at all costs, right?), I don't see our application owners or PIOs push towards migrating their applications over to Linux systems. There is too much risk involved and no one wants to invest the money to set up completely new servers to build new systems from the ground up (not just hardware, the software as well), just so it is all on Linux. They would rather deal with the increased licensing fees, knowing that the systems are running just fine (although their definition of what is 'just fine' is very different from what our users think, obviously).

And believe me, I would LOVE to have it all on Linux. I recently saw a poor Tomcat trapped on a Windows 2003 server. Broke my heart, that did.
 


That is for a concrete type of server. For another type of servers, Windows share is only 1/3 and for mainframes it is 0%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Market_share_by_category
 


Across all server applications, the best numbers I can find say windows might be approximately 30% of servers worldwide...

Unix/Linux combine for approx 70% of all servers of any kind.

So...no...MSFT is not king, or even remotely close, in servers...
 


Zen is using the same 2 way SMT that Intel is using, where each core supports up to two threads. Intel has been using 4 way, 4 threads per core, SMT in their Xeon Phi uArchs mainly due to what that is being used for (HPC).

I doubt AMD will do more than 2 way SMT on desktops as there is almost no use for that many possible threads.
 
Windows Servers are not there because of optimization and ease of use or even speed. It's because the usual "if it breaks, we blame MS and externalize the cost". Same for 99% of enterprise Linux systems. Most are either Debian, RedHat or Suse supported. There's a minuscule percentage of companies that internalize their Linux support. You will never ever see a Company that will take pride in saying "we support our own Linux Distro".

It was about time MS moved to that way of charging, since they were behind the curve. Oracle has been doing it since 2000, hahaha.

And Cazalan. Now that you mention it, you're right. I forgot about that bit; it was announced a long while ago. So we'll get MoBos to check long before the Zen APU/CPU itself. That kind of sucks, but we'll be able to do a nice comparison when it launches.

Cheers!
 


Zen core is SMT2.
 
anyone here actually looking into buying a Carrizo based desktop APU? ddr4 will make the onboard gpu pretty good I imagine, but cpu cores on Carrizo were designed for low power and I don't think they will scale to 95W very well. I just cant imagine many people buying this unless they want a system that they can just throw a zen cpu in on release day.
 

That's actually the reason I'm thinking of building my AM4-based rig early, just to be ready for Zen.
 


excavator cores will be weak on desktop though. haswell i3 at best. you going to use it as a main rig for those months leading up to zen? what if zen requires a AM4+ or some nonsense like that? I assume it will be fixed in a simple bios update, but you don't know, I mean that's what happened with kaveri.

told my friend to get a trinity A10 on FM2 because amd claimed to keep the socket, and they did, just changed the wiring to require you to get a new motherboard for the new cpu upgrade. it still works for him, but you get the point.
 
It's probably better to wait until it comes out and make your decision then, with the reviews out to make an informed decision. Unless you need a new rig right now, in which case one should probably go with Intel.
 
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