AMD DIES, INTEL SURVIVES!!!

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yeah you know what, watching that video again something
looks weird.. when he places the heatsink back on the P4
(note that the fan isn't even on) the framerates start
jumping like crazy.. I mean right away... that HSF
doesn't look like any top of the line cooler I've seen...
weird.. then again.. maybe its just the conspiracy
theorist inside of me..

Intel Components, AMD Components... all made in Taiwan!
 
<font color=blue>Other articles I look forward to from tom.

"water, which cpu can last the longest in the bathtub"
"gravity, which processor can perform faster in free fall, and which will survive impact"
"cheetos, the performance benifit of cheese in a memory sub system"

Bravo captain obvious!</font color=blue>

You have missed the point. Water, gravity, and Cheeto protection are not a feature of a processor. Thermal protection is. THG did a test of this feature, comparing the solution of the two leading companies. Intel's solution worked, AMD's solution did not.

Over the years I have owned over 20 computers. I currently have 3 Intel machines and 1 T-Bird. My company has thousands of PC's. I have never seen a HSF come off on its own. I have seen a couple of non ball-bearing HSF units fail.

My next PC will be another AMD, and I will be sure to use a HSF that is recommended by AMD (especially the weight of the HSF).

But I have often wondered what would happen to a P4 or a P3 without the HSF. I had a Pentium MMX that died when the fan failed (non ball bearing). Intel deserves praise for its thermal protection design, not for the dollars saved on failure, but for the data (in a server environment).

Even though the odds of a fan falling off or failing are slim to none, it was interesting to see (great video) the thermal protection feature tested. Palomino was a disappointment here.

Who knows? THG may have just pushed AMD to correct this in the Thoroughbred version of the Athlon.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
 
No one has ever claimed the tbird has any themral protection, what was the popint of burning one up? Secondly, the palomino has thermal protection in the event of FAN FAILURE, if the heatsink is not on it will fry, this is well known. Why did tom conduct a test HE KNEW the results to, then decide to videotape it? It smells fishy to me.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
 
Well, even if the video has been tampered with to improve the "dramatic effect", the conclusion remains the same, lets just state that first.

Secondly, it may be possible that:
1) Toms temp reading approoach is far from precise AND
2) the P4 was clockthrotteling around maybe 87,5 % of the time at say, 65°C, resulting in the performance of a P4 250 Mhz.. slow enough to believe the frame rates. If the clocktrotteling goes down (cpu goes up) to 75% which could happen in the blink of an eye, especially if it was already close the this treshold, you'd get a P4 - 500 Mhz. Twice the speed, in literally a blink of an eye. Add one more step and you have a 750 Mhz computer... certainly fast enough to produce smooth looking Q3 framerates. That doesnt mean its not clockthrotteling anymore however. far from in fact. It would still be at only 37% of its full performance.

Just guestimating though..

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
 
Another thought; the stated maximum temperature increase of 1 degree per second for the palomino seems totally absurd. The system should have *at least* a 20°c headroom (from say 45 to 65) before crashing. If 1°C per second where only allowed, that would mean the thermal protection would have a latency of 20 seconds before being able to shut down. Hardly imaginable.

I think the correct statement would be that it has a latency of 1 second, or, it would only check the temperature about once a second. That seems more reasonable. Looking at the movie, it certainly doesn’t take a full second for the cpu to crash; its near instantaneous. However, what this would also mean, although quite irrelevant and highly hypothetical, is that the thermal protection MIGHT save the cpu anyway if you’re lucky enough to disconnect the HSF on the right moment; probably just before the temperature is being sampled.

I know, not much of a consolidation, and it might take 10 or 100 attempts to demonstrate it.. but it was just a thought.


---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
 
Here's something nobody has thought of. Why do both AMDs look really screwed up the instant Tom (or whoever) takes the heatsink off? Don't try and say that's just thermal paste, Tom isn't dumb enough to put it over the whole CPU. With the Palamino, he had a bit of trouble getting the heatsink off, so that's understandable. But what about the Tbird?

<font color=green>They may take our lives, but they will never take our freedom!</font color=green>
 
Commercial interests will prevail, interesting THG isn’t being called anti Intel now. I have only been reading the guide for less than a year and I always thought it was un-bias until today.
Interesting video by any means, but seen too many jittery ghost images on that clip!

Someone had a win at the Casino of commerce and cashed in his chips!


<font color=purple>Three ways to do things, your way, my way and the right way!</font color=purple>
 
That occured to me when he had trouble removing the HSF from the Palomino as well. I thought perhaps he had damaged the core. Either way, the chip was destroyed.

The point was to compare the Thermal protection utilized by each company. As a feature of the CPU it was a valid test. I would not want to see a server in my company go down because a HSF failed.

However, it is a point that does not have much bearing. First, HSF do not just fall off, unless they are out of spec (weight). Second, a ball bearing HSF will just about run forever. I have never seen a ball bearing HSF fail. So, if a HSF is properly installed, the odds of needing the thermal protection is just about nil.

While seeing the video of the test was very interesting (I had never seen an Athlon burn), it does not sway me away from using AMD as long as the price/performance ratio is there.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
 
burn baby, burn. AMD cpus are fragile pos, they are not worthy of protecting any data on any machine, enjoy monitoring your temps every min or so.

ps, that fishy smell might be the hs paste melting away, better go and open up your case, and take a look! oh it's already open! well, move that big ol' fan out of the way!

Burn baby, Burn!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
 
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning,
Since the world's been turning.
We didn't start the fire
Well we didn't light it,
But we tried to fight it.

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.
 
"according to the video, the temperature goes from something like 70ºC (very high throttling.... Q3A <5FPS) to normal operating temperature 40ºC? 50ºC?"

This is very easily done. The temperature on the CPU is high because the core is extremely small. It cannot spread the heat out any further. When the heatsink is placed on the CPU, the heat immediately begins spreading itself out along both the CPU core and the heatsink. The same amount of heat spread out among both of these gives a much smaller amount of heat per unit of volume.


"Even if you put a block of ice on top of the PIV it would take some seconds for the heatplate to cool off and the inner thermistor drop to normal values."

If you put a block of ice on it then yes, it woudl take a few seconds. Ice is not very efficient at transferring heat. The materials of which these heatsinks are made are much better at quickly absorbing and distributing heat. If you do not believe me, let a heatsink cool down to room temperature and place it on your wrist. It feels awfully cold, doesn't it? Now place an ice cube on your wrist after allowing your wrist to return to room temperature. It takes a few moments for you to feel the cold doesn't it? This is because the heatsink is simply more efficient at absorbing heat. It probably cannot absorb as _much_ heat as an ice cube, but it can surely absorb heat more quickly.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 
your an idiot

must be all that pentium 4 HOLLOW HERTZ you been snorting...

u keep overspending for intel crap while i continue to blow u away with AMD CPU's
 
I still love AMD. I like the tweaking that their processors allow and up until now I’ve had no trouble. It all started when my vapochill went on the fritz. I had to do a lot of processor manipulation and remove and replace the very complicated evaporator unit a few times. I got the vapochill back and I guess I must have chipped the edge of the core, because it just produced way more heat than I was used to. The vapochill just couldn’t keep up with it. So after a few boots it died. So I pulled my other CPU from my air cooled machine and placed it in the system with a cheep cooler just to see if the board was bad. I must have chipped this CPU with the cheep cooler because as I started it up a certain odder filled the room. I looked at them under my stereoscope and there definitely is damage to the cores, two CPUs in one hour. Oh well at least it will only cost me $206+shipping to get them replaced. I think in the week I have until the replacements come, I have many more machines to work with; I’m going to design a tool to help me place the evaporator from the vapochill on the cpu. I also got a $40 durron to test on.

Let’s be careful out there.

Schmide

Pre flaming just to save you the trouble

AMDMELTDOWN

Burn Crack and Die I told you so.

FUGGER

I guess its time for you to go out and buy the real deal P4 CPU.
 
hmmmm... you people always have to go into flame wars. Well if you would just say fine i dont care i think meltdown and fugger would leave but you keep on fighting a war acting like little kids. Well you dont get it, Meltdown and fugger are extremely hard headed, talking to him is like talking to a Pre-Schooler. Stop falling into there traps.

thank you

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
 
Hi all,

First of all, use an AMD Thunderbird CPU without fan/heasink just like driving a car without your safety seat belt on, only the drunker would do that, second but not last, I have to burn five 1.4 GHZ AMD CPU in order to have enough money to buy a 2.0 GHZ Intel CPU. I wouldn't do that many times with driving a car without seat belt. Bottom line is money is the key of this world. Cheer all.
 
Hello i would Just lek to ask if anyone else has experienced this problem

i recently bought a KT7A-RAID mobo and a 1.2ghz T-bird but i have found that the mobo outputs higher voltages then what it is set too for both I/O and CPU Core

for example if i set the CPU voltage to 1.75V (the default voltage for my CPU) the BIOS, MBM5 and Via Hardware Monitor all display the core Voltage at 1.86V that seems WAY! out of spec. my athlon has always run hot (as athlons have a tendency to do but today it died!.

under bios i watched in horror as the CPU temp climbed over 70 degrees celcious and i smelt burning the screen went dead and i now have a wonderful keychain...f**k

i just want to know if anyone has had this problem with this or any otehr board also if anyone knows if this sort of thing is covered by warrenty (i dont see y i should have to pay for a new CPU when i did nothing too it)

and for those of you out there who assume i was OCing i wasent ... the watercooler isnt done yet!

please lemmie know how otehrs have dealt with this problem thanks

The_dwarf
metaldwarf@hotmail.com


1.2ghz T-bird Melted by my faulty Abit Kt7A-RAID

i am not a happy camper
 
I recently had an incident where my CPU fan failed, sending my Thunderbird 1GHz processor to 90+ degrees Celcius.
But did it die? No, I could exit windows, turn of the computer and replace the fan. I regurarly used the computer to check my email and whatnot, while I was waiting for my new fan to be delivered (only for a couple of minutes at a time, though, starting the computer from room temperature). The heatsink falling off would be something entirely different, of course, but I can't imagine that being very common....
I'm not running a business where I shift 100s of computers monthly, where a potential CPU failure might or might not upset some customers, even if they get their computer serviced and the CPU replaced promptly, so I can't speak for those businesses, but I think the problem should not be exaggearted.

My point is, this test that Tom's Hardware Guide did does not mean that AMD products are crap, but it can indicate that they lack a feature that could make AMD products more competitive.

If I factor in all aspects of the CPUs, AMD still wins in my book... =)
 
The decisive factor here is the cost, as it has already been mentioned. For big companies, the risk of losing working hours outweighs the cost of buying much more expensive CPU+m/b+RAM systems. However, small companies and (mainly) home users will need many consecutive accidents (4-5!) like that with an Athlon 1.4 rig to finally cost them as much as a P4 2.0 rig. Let alone the fact that most hardware enthusiasts actually love tweaking their system (o/c, watching the temp…), instead of seeing it as time lost.

But wait a minute, isn’t this a hardware enthusiasts forum? Have I hacked my way into American Express’ intranet? No, still in the THG forum, thank god.

So there’s no doubt that everyone(*) in here would be better spending less bucks for an AMD. Even in the unlikely situation that his HS would fell off, he would just buy another CPU (probably a faster one at that point in the future), and still save big time than buying a P4 now.

(*) Everyone, which is except for FUGGER, who is a multi-billionaire and the company he owns has thousands of supercritical PCs. FUGGER, have you been off your Lithium medication again?

I am not against Intel; in fact I am just going to buy their fastest P4 as soon as it will be for $99.

However, there is only one reason for people in this forum buying Intel right now: if AMD would go broke, AMDMELTDOWN would no more have a reason to live and would commit suicide. Hey Amdmeltdufous, kill yourself now and stop wasting the oxygen.
 
>if AMD would go broke, AMDMELTDOWN would no more have a reason to live and would commit suicide.

LOL! I would probably come back as AMDBrokeASS.



"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
 
Meltdown dude

These AMD babies are so sad cause now not only are they losers but sore losers. AMD first was first to 1G but what have they done lately besides cut prices? Intel is first to .13 micron and first to 2G, plus they don't burn up if the HS falls off in shipping and later they will not burn up in a few years when the fans go bad. Good job Intel.

ps: Don't give me that proformance per clock crap either you AMD babies. That crap only counts so long as your overall proformance is higher. It counts for [-peep-] if all you can say is "Well if the Intel chip ran at a slower clock we could beat it". Well it doesn't run at a slower clock so bite me.

If you can't afford Intel get a better job losers.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by LAKEDUDE on 09/19/01 07:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
congrats...you pointed out something everyone's known for years. you didn't even point it out. you just pointed to an article tom wrote. feel like a big man now?

"no vesige of a begining, no prospect of an end, when we all disenigrate, it'll all happpen again."
 
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