hergieburbur
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WHAT??
Someone on this forum has been wrong about something? I didn't think that was possible.
J/K :twisted:
Someone on this forum has been wrong about something? I didn't think that was possible.
J/K :twisted:
hergieburbur
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I know, I wasn't directing that at you specifically, that was just too good of an oppurtunity to pass up.
hergieburbur
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I wouldn't be so sure. The lawsuit will focus more on moves and actions prior to the start of the suit. I don't think something like this would have that great of an effect on it.
You're absolutley correct, it doesn't matter to regular folks. They bring dead Dells to me all of the time, if it needs a motherboard, I give them the price of the repair and they tell me they can get another for $399 or something.I'll ask what's it got and they can't answer, because it's only $399 they could care less what it has.
The Server and Gamer/Do It Yourself Better market is so outnumbered by the regular "I call my whole computer a Hard Drive or Modem " crowd that Dell really can't lose with the prices they offer. I swear if the computer had a Bagel with wires connected to the motherboard and it was $299- $399 from Dell they'd be flying off of the shelves.
The Server and Gamer/Do It Yourself Better market is so outnumbered by the regular "I call my whole computer a Hard Drive or Modem " crowd that Dell really can't lose with the prices they offer. I swear if the computer had a Bagel with wires connected to the motherboard and it was $299- $399 from Dell they'd be flying off of the shelves.
What has happened now has NO bearing on what was done back then.
Look at it this way..........if you took a life, then the next day saved one, you will still have to pay for the one you took regardless.
A bit extreme with the analogy, but it's what I had at the time.
Look at it this way..........if you took a life, then the next day saved one, you will still have to pay for the one you took regardless.
A bit extreme with the analogy, but it's what I had at the time.
Atolsammeek
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I think It going to help dell for it been losing alot of money in the last few years and also help Amd. I also think intel will hurt from this but. You also have to look at this. If both company are the same where both Intel and Amd Had about the same Imcome give or take a few million. Computers will lower in price and speed will go up faster.
Dell is smart. They realize "Opteron != Conroe + Merom" and that Woodcrest doesn't scale past 2-CPUs because of the shared memory bus. Opterons are expensive, but they also offer insane bus bandwidth and the ability to use 8+ CPUs on machine without performance degradation.
Conroe and Merom will own on all benchmarks sub-4 CPUs. Opteron will remain x86 king in the high-end 4+ CPU market.
I think AMD Opteron MP (4 to 8 way processors series) fulfill Dell missing product line. Currently, Dell offer 4-way PowerEdfge series but no 8-way solution. AMD Opteron MP solution is better cost effective versus Intel Xeon MP solution in term price, performance and scalability. Either way Dell give their customer choice to choose AMD or Intel rather none at all.
My initial feeling was that AMD had done a bad deal for themselves, and thier old customers. After all, HP, SUN etc sell a lot of workstations/ desktops with those 4 way 8 way servers.
If Dell gets that marketshare, the chips that go with, will all be Intel.
You have to look at the timing of the release though. They sent it out, with the results from a really bad quarter. I suspect that the point was to avert a large devaluation.
When you look at the number of 4 way/ 8 way servers that Dell has sold, you have to wonder if they really intend to sell any opterons, over the token amount.
I suspect that Dell will be back to an Intel only situation as soon as thier numbers pick up.
If Dell gets that marketshare, the chips that go with, will all be Intel.
You have to look at the timing of the release though. They sent it out, with the results from a really bad quarter. I suspect that the point was to avert a large devaluation.
When you look at the number of 4 way/ 8 way servers that Dell has sold, you have to wonder if they really intend to sell any opterons, over the token amount.
I suspect that Dell will be back to an Intel only situation as soon as thier numbers pick up.
Hu ? Thats complete BS. Companies don't buy "a server and 5 PC's to go wih them". You buy as many servers as you need to fullfull your storage/computing needs, and only as many desktop/laptops as you have employees needing them. If anything, it would be the other way around, as you add more clients, you might need more servers to .. wel.. serve them. But I have never ever even seen adds like 'buy a server and 5 clients, and you get 10% discount", simply because it doesn't work that way.
Requirements for either type of machine, the criteria, support, etc are so vastly different, you will often see servers being bought by a different department, from a different vendor. Sun is selling around $500M worth of opteron servers, expected to breach $1B next year, but how many desktops did you think went with them ?
I can agree with that, although of course, part of that bad quarter is due to its declining server sales. All Opteron proponents (HP, Sun) are posting nice gains in those markets though, with opteron growing triple digits and now having close to 40% of the 4S maket. So one is not necessarely completely unrelated to the other
If you look at dollar value, you will see that 4 way market is quite significant, especially if you include software and support. 8 way is something totally different, not sure why people here are putting them in one bag with 4S. Opteron currently sucks at 8S, and in general 8S x86 is a tiny niche. May change with Horus, K8L or CSI, but at this point, its safe to ignore 8S+ for x86.
hergieburbur
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Uh, he was talking about 4 and 8 processor machines, not 4 to 8 machines with a server. Though nobody buys an 8 processor desktop, so I don't know where that came from. BTW, I have seen Dell offer exactly that Deal in the past: A Server, 5 desktop clients, and a network switch to get your network started at a discount.
As far as Opterons currently sucking in 8-way, where do you get that? They currently Kill Xeons in in 8-way server apps using 4-dual core machines.
This is a high margin/low volume market where HP and Sun have been hitting Dell. This move helps Dell recover while getting AMD more exposure and customer base.
As far as Opterons currently sucking in 8-way, where do you get that? They currently Kill Xeons in in 8-way server apps using 4-dual core machines.
This is a high margin/low volume market where HP and Sun have been hitting Dell. This move helps Dell recover while getting AMD more exposure and customer base.
No kidding.
"8 way" usually refers to 8 socket, not 8 cores (a "2 way" server isnt a single socket, dual core server).. Your link refers to a 4S test. Besides, beating a 4S/8C Xeon using an 8500, hardly qualifies as proof of good scaling. Fact is, cache coherency broadcast traffic hurts performance of opteron at 4S, and kills it at 8S.
weskurtz81
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Isn't the Opteron @ 8S still better performing the Woodcrest would be @ 8S over a bus? Or are you reffering to Itanium? And how many Itanium based systems are really sold in comparison to other 8S systems? I wouldn't think that very many are.....
clue69less
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I see it too. I work with a guy that is an electrical engineer. He's a very capable guy WRT computers, electronics, vacuum systems, metalwork - in other words, very capable at dealing with a wide variety of modern technologies totally hands-on. He's into gaming as is his kid. He needs a new computer for home and what is he spraying his tax return bucks on? You got it, a Dell. And a low-end Dell at that. He could easily afford a more expensive box, and he could build his own easily without batting an eye. I think many people get some sort of comfort from buying a Dell. It's like drugs flow into their fingertips when they configure a machine on dell.com. Personally, I don't understand it.
Woodcrest won't go 8S for all I know, but yes, Opteron would most likely beat it there. Then again, 8S Xeon would beat 8 GSM phone's clustered through IRdA, that doesn't make it well performing though.
I have no numbers, but If you are talking 8S and up, single image servers (not clusters), I'm guessing x86 is fifth or sixth player behind:
- Power4/5 (IBM, Bull,.)
- PA Risc and Alpha (HP, and yes, they still sell, and pretty damn well too)
- Sparc (Sun, Fujitsu)
- Itanium (HP mostly, SGI,..)
- Z9 mainframes (IBM)
Back on track here...first, Average Joe or Jane, who want a PC will buy a PC (with many still thinking MHz is all that matters), Dell has some serious name recognition though for the most part, it's whatever's on sale.
Most of those who know the real benefits of an AMD or an Intel processor, at the processor level, usually build their own boxes based on their preferred CPU.
Think back to where a corporation wouldn't consider anything but an IBM PC regardless of how good the competition was. For many large corporations, this mode of thinking still exists though the players are more like Dell & HP.
This recent announcement probably will help AMD more than Dell and in fact, is already helping AMD. AMD doesn't really advertise much. But now, with a very top tier name like Dell making huge headlines about AMD, suddenly AMD is becomming more of a household (and corporate) name.
Some of the effects will be rather immediate and will increase over time, particularly when those same blind corporations start hearing about AMD processors in their own DP Departments. "Buying daughter a PC for graduation... hearing good things at work about AMD... let's try a PC with one of those."
In the long run, even if there isn't a long run in this particular deal, both Dell & AMD will win and in fact, are already.
Most of those who know the real benefits of an AMD or an Intel processor, at the processor level, usually build their own boxes based on their preferred CPU.
Think back to where a corporation wouldn't consider anything but an IBM PC regardless of how good the competition was. For many large corporations, this mode of thinking still exists though the players are more like Dell & HP.
This recent announcement probably will help AMD more than Dell and in fact, is already helping AMD. AMD doesn't really advertise much. But now, with a very top tier name like Dell making huge headlines about AMD, suddenly AMD is becomming more of a household (and corporate) name.
Some of the effects will be rather immediate and will increase over time, particularly when those same blind corporations start hearing about AMD processors in their own DP Departments. "Buying daughter a PC for graduation... hearing good things at work about AMD... let's try a PC with one of those."
In the long run, even if there isn't a long run in this particular deal, both Dell & AMD will win and in fact, are already.
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