News AMD, Intel, and Nvidia Reportedly Slash Orders with TSMC

[Admin]

TSMC's utilization rates to drop sharply as larges customers revise orders.

AMD, Intel, and Nvidia Reportedly Slash Orders with TSMC : Read more

 

[Mpablo87]

TSMC is the best company ! ! ! ! ! !
Products are Good! ! ! ! !

 

[jkflipflop98]

TSMC is the best company ! ! ! ! !

They aren't going to be able to pay so much for advertising after this.

 

[-Fran-]

This is interesting news, for sure. At the same time, I don't like this. Specially AMD. What they need to do is not cut back their orders, but just build things that are enticing to buy. Go back to the under-$300 market and you will make the wafers count. People doesn't want to buy stupid expensive products at times of recession, but they do buy things which are accessible and won't put you in debt to do so. Well, what do I know. They hold their own sales projection data based on whatever cloud they're standing on top of, far disconnected from us.

They aren't going to be able to pay so much for advertising after this.

Maybe that one is a freebie? Like a promotional sample of the services? XD

Regards.

 

[2Be_or_Not2Be]

I wonder if none of the big US automakers use TSMC for car chips. I have seen a number of reports of cutbacks for TSMC/GloFo/foundries, and yet all of the automakers say supply constraints still affect them. I know there is a lot of time between getting orders & actually producing the required output, so cutbacks now might be due to expected order reductions for future output. So I guess TSMC probably doesn't do a lot of chips for the auto industry as they have higher-end nodes, but I'd curious where the real supply constraints are right now.

 

[kjfatl]

This is the normal boom-bust cycle in the chip industry. In the past 2 years many customers have build up large stocks of chips "just in case." These now have to be used up or thrown out.

 

[Endymio]

I wonder if none of the big US automakers use TSMC for car chips.

Yes, TSMC makes a large number of automotive-industry chips. They even have nodes specifically optimized for automotive applications.

 

[DataMeister]

I wonder if this will help with some of the chip shortages in other areas. For example, stock for Raspberry Pi 4 still seems to be rare.

It would be interesting to have an article covering all the companies that TSMC produces for.

 

[vanadiel007]

Based on the pricing of video cards in the past 3 years, I have come to the conclusion the high pricing is not due to crypto currency or scalpers. I have concluded it's due to pricing schemes and revenue models by the GPU chip producers.

If 3 years after Covid they still have not figured out how to combat the chip shortage and fix the supply chain issues, I am afraid they will never figure it out and pricing of everything will stay high or go higher.

I truly hope they all suffer immense losses and go into bankruptcy protection. They deserve it. I do feel for all the innocent workers who are loosing their jobs due to cutbacks. Don't feel one single bit for those in control of these companies.

 

[Endymio]

If 3 years after Covid they still have not figured out how to combat the chip shortage and fix the supply chain issues, I am afraid they will never figure it out and pricing of everything will stay high or go higher.

Moore's Law is dead, the two-year inflation rate is 16%, not 2%, and "Graphics" Processing Units are now primarily being used for tasks besides playing video games. You'll never see massive performance gains at the same price point again. Ever.

I truly hope they all suffer immense losses and go into bankruptcy protection. They deserve it.

When you sell your home, your car, or any other major asset for one penny less than what the market will bear, come back and talk to us. GPU makers are in business to turn the best possible profit they can, not to feed the addiction of self-entitled video-game junkies.

 

[Deleted member 2928070]

Moore's Law is dead, the two-year inflation rate is 16%, not 2%, and "Graphics" Processing Units are now primarily being used for tasks besides playing video games. You'll never see massive performance gains at the same price point again. Ever.

When you sell your home, your car, or any other major asset for one penny less than what the market will bear, come back and talk to us. GPU makers are in business to turn the best possible profit they can, not to feed the addiction of self-entitled video-game junkies.

Wow, people in your life probably really love you.

 

[CelicaGT]

Moore's Law is dead, the two-year inflation rate is 16%, not 2%, and "Graphics" Processing Units are now primarily being used for tasks besides playing video games. You'll never see massive performance gains at the same price point again. Ever.

When you sell your home, your car, or any other major asset for one penny less than what the market will bear, come back and talk to us. GPU makers are in business to turn the best possible profit they can, not to feed the addiction of self-entitled video-game junkies.

Jensen?

 

[Endymio]

Wow, people in your life probably really love you.

Come, you can do better than that. Perhaps a mom joke or two? You must have heard a few recently in your school gymnasium.

 

[lmcnabney]

Slashing production to artificially create scarcity within the market which pushes up margins as gross sales plumet.

The PC community has shown (during the mining era) that there is plenty of room for price gouging so why not.

 

[CircuitJammer]

If they focused on making lower cost, high value products we the consumer will literally make excuses to buy their products. When they raise prices and price gouge, we'll stop buying. Too many MBAs with little understanding of their customers running the show.

 

[InvalidError]

Based on the pricing of video cards in the past 3 years, I have come to the conclusion the high pricing is not due to crypto currency or scalpers. I have concluded it's due to pricing schemes and revenue models by the GPU chip producers.

The high prices despite covid and crypto being mostly over are simply due to AMD-Nvidia being an oligopoly. They can optimize for net profit per unit sold instead of fighting for market share by delivering compelling value per dollar to consumers.

 

[DavidLejdar]

Slashing production to artificially create scarcity within the market which pushes up margins as gross sales plumet.

The PC community has shown (during the mining era) that there is plenty of room for price gouging so why not.

This week another article here talked about how the GPU sales in 2022 have been the lowest for years. And this implies that there are thousands and thousands of GPUs in warehouses, which didn't get sold as hoped for.

And about that one can argue that they ought to employ some sales staff, as to find homes for all these GPUs, and also some marketing instead of just relying on word of mouth. But in terms of: "the GPU market is over-saturated, respectively the demand just isn't there as in previous years", I do not find it to be mischief for the response to be: "Well, we better reduce the production then, as the warehouses are already more full than we expected.".

 

[A Stoner]

I wonder if none of the big US automakers use TSMC for car chips. I have seen a number of reports of cutbacks for TSMC/GloFo/foundries, and yet all of the automakers say supply constraints still affect them.

Cars use what are called mature technologies as their equipment has to keep lives safe. Think in the 150nm down to maybe 28 nm range.

During the lockdowns, they slashed orders, and chip makers shut down these old machines or shifted to other buyers. Now auto makers are having trouble rebuilding their orders.

 

[shady28]

Cars use what are called mature technologies as their equipment has to keep lives safe. Think in the 150nm down to maybe 28 nm range.

During the lockdowns, they slashed orders, and chip makers shut down these old machines or shifted to other buyers. Now auto makers are having trouble rebuilding their orders.

They also primarily use Taiwan's UMC, not TSMC. And shortages, more often than not, were caused by relatively low tech hardware like display driver chips coming out of China.

We're going to wind up with a glut of SoC, GPU, and CPU manufacturing capacity because of this bizarre narrative that we need lots more bleeding edge node capacity when it is really more along the lines of needing more 65nm capacity.

Actually, looks like that has already happened.

Let's be real here. The most advanced car computer is Tesla's generation 3 self-driving system which came out in 2019. It uses Samsung 14nm node based custom AI chips designed by Tesla (Jim Keller helped them get this start).

Granted their next gen system is going to be on N5, but that's not even out yet. And most cars do not have self-driving features, or anything even close to it.

Car makers don't need bleeding edge nodes.

 

[ekio]

RTX4000s gpu are available a few second a month… while scalpers pieces of <Mod Edit> get all the tiny stock and they reduce the manufacturing contracts.

 

[InvalidError]

RTX4000s gpu are available a few second a month… while scalpers pieces of <Mod Edit> get all the tiny stock and they reduce the manufacturing contracts.

There are a few 4080 and 4090 models in stock on Newegg.com even if you limit results to those directly from Newegg itself.

For scalpers to make a profit, there has to be no availability whatsoever from first-party sources and that doesn't appear to be a problem right now. Most scalper stories I have heard are about them having to take a loss to get rid of inventory they are unable to get rid of.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

The problem isn't supply, it's low demand. People aren't whipping out their wallets to replace items to net a relatively low gain for a relatively high price. The global economy is garbage with sky high inflation and, especially in the UK and Europe, energy prices and cost of living is drastically reducing disposable income. Consumer spending is up across the board, but sales across the board are down due to higher prices and less disposable income. Heck, even restaurants, which are experiencing a great increase in their sales figures, are seeing shrinking profits as their overhead continues to skyrocket, especially labor costs.

Samsung missed their Galaxy S22 sales targets, and Apple missed their iPhone 14 targets so badly that there's talk of a price reduction for the iPhone 15, but the iPhone 14 and 13, and the Galaxy S21 aren't performance slouches and newer versions don't bring anything MUST HAVE to the table to make people want to replace them. AMD's still having problems shifting Socket AM5, but as all review sites point out, they have a pricing problem they refuse to solve, and they're not much faster than Socket AM4 parts in the real world. Intel's also in the same boat as they are axing thousands of positions to shore up their figures. GPU sales are lackluster because of the price situation, not helped at all by the fact the 3070 Ti is going to cost well over $800 once OEM fees attach. And you see the same trends in the automobile, and most other industries as well as people are holding on to their perfectly good stuff longer.

This isn't to say that AMD and nVidia couldn't experience record sales and struggle to keep orders filled if they priced their GPUs more affordably, but there's no incentive for them to do it if they can sell one unit and make, say, 5X profit vs 5 units and make X profit while at the same time drastically reducing the chances of being left with a massive stockpile of unsold cards, even if this means consumer resentment because it doesn't matter, they're still going to buy them.

 

[Ahumado]

I will make it easy on you kids. Cereal is over $7 a box and eggs are too. Who is buying chips? and I don't mean potato

 

[vanadiel007]

Moore's Law is dead, the two-year inflation rate is 16%, not 2%, and "Graphics" Processing Units are now primarily being used for tasks besides playing video games. You'll never see massive performance gains at the same price point again. Ever.

When you sell your home, your car, or any other major asset for one penny less than what the market will bear, come back and talk to us. GPU makers are in business to turn the best possible profit they can, not to feed the addiction of self-entitled video-game junkies.

I am pretty sure the 4090 has some very serious performance gains over the 3000 series cards. But I also think it's not worth the current asking price, even if it is a large upgrade for me. I will stick to my 3080.

And while they are in the business to turn profits, they also have to be careful not to overprice their products to a point where it hurts profits.
I know that may sound counter intuitive, but higher pricing does not always equal higher profits.

 

[vanadiel007]

The high prices despite covid and crypto being mostly over are simply due to AMD-Nvidia being an oligopoly. They can optimize for net profit per unit sold instead of fighting for market share by delivering compelling value per dollar to consumers.

I don't believe that to be the case as CPU's are much more affordable than GPU's right now. You have the same situation between AMD and Intel, yet pricing for CPU's is a lot more reasonable.
If you do a breakdown on the pricing of individual components, you will see a large portion going to just 1 item: the GPU.