AMD is at the beginning of a massive reorganization phase that will only leave about half of its entire business to traditional processors.
AMD: Kaveri is Still a Go : Read more
AMD: Kaveri is Still a Go : Read more
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wanderer11
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retirepresident
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mikenygmail
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Thunderfox
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[citation][nom]alvine[/nom]AMD cpu's= meh, good value AMD gpus's=[/citation]
You mean ATI's gpu's? the ones that are keeping AMD in business?
If we had to give up ATI, I wish we could have gotten a more competitive AMD out of it. Instead, they have gone back to hanging on by their fingernails.
You mean ATI's gpu's? the ones that are keeping AMD in business?
If we had to give up ATI, I wish we could have gotten a more competitive AMD out of it. Instead, they have gone back to hanging on by their fingernails.
xpeh
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- Jun 25, 2011
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[citation][nom]Reaper_17[/nom]@wanderer11, what intel rumor?[/citation]
I believe it was something about Intel making only embedded CPU's.
Edit- Haha. I post a reply to Reaper_17's comment and there are 5 other comment that appear that answer reaper's question.
I believe it was something about Intel making only embedded CPU's.
Edit- Haha. I post a reply to Reaper_17's comment and there are 5 other comment that appear that answer reaper's question.
JonnyDough
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To answer your question, there are rumors that Intel will stop making CPUs for desktops. That means a market space could possibly open up. However, I think you'll find that motherboards are getting cheaper to manufacture. This is a result of a few things:
Companies buying each other up, which results in cost cutting in a few ways.
Integration of components onto a single chip. i.e. the CPU/GPU/memory controller/chipset being all in one package. This is why AMD bought ATI. It's a race that Intel thinks they are winning, but there's more to building an APU than just fast CPU. AMD has proven that, but they are behind in process technology.
Intel plans to solder future CPU/GPU (GPGPU/APU) directly to the motherboard. This means no upgrades for enthusiasts without purchasing an entirely new motherboard. However, this soldering also makes the entire package cheaper as there is no inclusion of pins, etc. This can be good and bad, and in a way it is inevitable as thinks shrink.
However, is this the right time? The other companies involved will surely be losing out (i.e. those who make CPU coolers, etc) and the industry/consumers as a whole could reject this idea. The question then becomes can AMD offer APUs that are not soldered to the motherboard that can compete with Intel's soldered chips.
Companies buying each other up, which results in cost cutting in a few ways.
Integration of components onto a single chip. i.e. the CPU/GPU/memory controller/chipset being all in one package. This is why AMD bought ATI. It's a race that Intel thinks they are winning, but there's more to building an APU than just fast CPU. AMD has proven that, but they are behind in process technology.
Intel plans to solder future CPU/GPU (GPGPU/APU) directly to the motherboard. This means no upgrades for enthusiasts without purchasing an entirely new motherboard. However, this soldering also makes the entire package cheaper as there is no inclusion of pins, etc. This can be good and bad, and in a way it is inevitable as thinks shrink.
However, is this the right time? The other companies involved will surely be losing out (i.e. those who make CPU coolers, etc) and the industry/consumers as a whole could reject this idea. The question then becomes can AMD offer APUs that are not soldered to the motherboard that can compete with Intel's soldered chips.
blazorthon
Glorious
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[citation][nom]Thunderfox[/nom]You mean ATI's gpu's? the ones that are keeping AMD in business?If we had to give up ATI, I wish we could have gotten a more competitive AMD out of it. Instead, they have gone back to hanging on by their fingernails.[/citation]
They are called AMD GPUs and graphics cards nowadays. Ati isn't used anymore except for the Radeon 5000 series and older. 6000 and 7000 are AMD, not Ati. Besides, they're beating Nvidia in performance and performance per dollar overall right noe, especially in future-resistance, so I don't see why you have such a seemingly condescending tone about them.
They are called AMD GPUs and graphics cards nowadays. Ati isn't used anymore except for the Radeon 5000 series and older. 6000 and 7000 are AMD, not Ati. Besides, they're beating Nvidia in performance and performance per dollar overall right noe, especially in future-resistance, so I don't see why you have such a seemingly condescending tone about them.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
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[citation][nom]maxinexus[/nom]That rumor is a mere speculation desctop will be here for longer than you may think. Also ATI is long long gone and the graphics does not keep AMD afloat (18 millions income in Q3 is nothing in comparison to net 131 million loss).[/citation]
As I recall, it was 18M in profit, not income. That's not a net loss at the time, granted I think they may be headed for a net loss next time around, although the supposedly promising Black Friday sales might have helped deter that.
As I recall, it was 18M in profit, not income. That's not a net loss at the time, granted I think they may be headed for a net loss next time around, although the supposedly promising Black Friday sales might have helped deter that.
TeraMedia
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Micro-servers: Is that a drobo or something? Or a blade? How does AMD excel in this market?
Gaming devices: XBOX 720 GPU - check. PS4 GPU - check (I think?). Wii U - who cares? AMD owns parts of this, for now.
Industrial (embedded) solutions: if this is for imaging technologies such as MRI, then with GCN that makes a lot of sense. But this is not a huge market and cannot support a company as large as AMD without shared use of work products. They can only be successful with this if they develop the technology first for something else, and then re-apply it here.
Communications: smartphones? They're behind, and falling further behind. They need to find a manuf that can provide competitive power consumption levels.
Tablet APUs: Also falling behind, except for Windows 8 (non-RT) tablet applications. They need to find a manuf that can provide competitive power consumption levels.
bunz_of_steel
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If AMD wants a boost first hire a CEO or Exec's worth their pay! They shouldn't be getting huge paychecks when company is not making money. Firing the working staff cuz CEO & Exec's can't make company profitable is just plain dumb. That's like credit card companies raising the bill on folks who can't afford the current bill... how's that gonna end?! Get rid of the golden parachute too! Stop putting monies in the pockets of the executive staff and put it in R&D, stop pulling punches and crunch out an APU with some SERIOUS muscle. The AMD APU A10-5800K only has 384 cores on dies with HD 7660D which is respectable enough. The HD 7750 has 512 Stream Processors why not mulch them together why water it down? Understanding that they don't want to undersell their own GPU's vs APU's but I'm thinking surely they can come up with some seriously stronger than the fail Dozer. That was just a something hashed together imho. PileDozer was so so improvement and prob wasted $$$ there for something folks barely noticed. AMD wanna make money - fire the entire executive staff and get some folks who are hungry and willing to do what it takes to put food on the table. Playing it safe is only going to get them to the end of the round, they need a contender that can put bacon on the table... sorry for the rant
Man if FailDozer becomes their Swan Song, that would really suck big time for their wikipedia article.
I'm actually notebook shopping and I'm leaning towards their APU rather than Intel stuff. The notebook doesn't need to have raw compute speed so I'll give up some CPU horsepower to have some of that AMD integ graphics instead of the Intel HD4000 weak sauce.
I'm actually notebook shopping and I'm leaning towards their APU rather than Intel stuff. The notebook doesn't need to have raw compute speed so I'll give up some CPU horsepower to have some of that AMD integ graphics instead of the Intel HD4000 weak sauce.
mousseng
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- Apr 13, 2012
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I certainly hope Piledriver's not their last major core - I think Steamroller might have what it takes to put them back into competition with Intel (whether or not that's their goal), in the enthusiast segment at least.
I realize that's similar to what was said about Piledriver and Bulldozer, but expanding the modules' front end alone should show major performance boosts. I think the projections for Haswell's performance aren't terribly high, so if AMD can sustain their 10~15% increases, they'll be back in the game soon enough.
I realize that's similar to what was said about Piledriver and Bulldozer, but expanding the modules' front end alone should show major performance boosts. I think the projections for Haswell's performance aren't terribly high, so if AMD can sustain their 10~15% increases, they'll be back in the game soon enough.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
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[citation][nom]bunz_of_steel[/nom]If AMD wants a boost first hire a CEO or Exec's worth their pay! They shouldn't be getting huge paychecks when company is not making money. Firing the working staff cuz CEO & Exec's can't make company profitable is just plain dumb. That's like credit card companies raising the bill on folks who can't afford the current bill... how's that gonna end?! Get rid of the golden parachute too! Stop putting monies in the pockets of the executive staff and put it in R&D, stop pulling punches and crunch out an APU with some SERIOUS muscle. The AMD APU A10-5800K only has 384 cores on dies with HD 7660D which is respectable enough. The HD 7750 has 512 Stream Processors why not mulch them together why water it down? Understanding that they don't want to undersell their own GPU's vs APU's but I'm thinking surely they can come up with some seriously stronger than the fail Dozer. That was just a something hashed together imho. PileDozer was so so improvement and prob wasted $$$ there for something folks barely noticed. AMD wanna make money - fire the entire executive staff and get some folks who are hungry and willing to do what it takes to put food on the table. Playing it safe is only going to get them to the end of the round, they need a contender that can put bacon on the table... sorry for the rant[/citation]
AMD put 384 VLIW4 cores in the A10-5800K because they probably didn't have GCN ready when Trinity was being designed, let alone ready with a 32nm reverse die-shrink and any other necessary alterations for the different process (I'm not sure if there's a different term for it, but either way, this seems to fit).
AMD's upcoming APU, Kaveri, will supposedly feature 512 GCN cores like the Radeon 7750. AMD isn't pulling punches this way, they're simply doing what they can. Also, Piledriver was a huge improvement over Bulldozer. Trinity has lower idle power consumption than even Intel's Ivy Bridge dual-core models in the same price range and that's with a great process node/technology disadvantage and a powerful on-die GPU. Even without any L3 cache, Trinity had about 15% higher performance per module at the same CPU frequency. That's higher performance at the same frequency despite not having the huge 8MiB L3 cache of the Bulldozer CPUs!
I do agree that AMD's executive staff (at least much of them) seems like the sorts who shouldn't be employed at AMD. Executives have been taking seemingly exorbitant pay checks considering the company has been going down on their watch and a lot of AMD's executive decisions over the last few years have been plain stupid IMO.
[citation][nom]mousseng[/nom]I certainly hope Piledriver's not their last major core - I think Steamroller might have what it takes to put them back into competition with Intel (whether or not that's their goal), in the enthusiast segment at least.I realize that's similar to what was said about Piledriver and Bulldozer, but expanding the modules' front end alone should show major performance boosts. I think the projections for Haswell's performance aren't terribly high, so if AMD can sustain their 10~15% increases, they'll be back in the game soon enough.[/citation]
Steamroller should improve performance by more than that, at least at the same frequency. So long as it gets into the market without any as of yet unforeseen flaws, it could be a huge improvement for AMD. Kaveri is on a 28nm node IIRC and with the improve Steamroller architecture, it could have a significant performance improvement with a significant power consumption improvement. AMD needs both if they want to catch Intel. Sure, Intel isn't making big performance leaps lately, but they have been hitting their power consumption further and further down and AMD has been getting flack for not doing the same.
Kaveri and Vishera's successor both seem to have the potential to put AMD in a good position, but looking at Vishera versus Trinity, I have doubts for Vishera's successor. Piledriver was a great improvement over Bulldozer, but Vishera seems to be greatly handicapped by the crap cache being used (more specifically, the L3 cache, but the L2 isn't really good either). This is something that AMD needs to improve greatly, perhaps even more than their front end.
Even worse, AMD already has had licensing for technologies that could greatly alleviate their cache issues for many years (Z-Ram and a little more recently, TRAM; if anyone wants a more detailed explanation, feel free to ask and I'll post one)... AMD has what they need, all that is left to do is use it! I wonder if their executives had anything to do with not using it... Why pay licensing fees for what isn't used anyway? Paying for licenses that they're not even using isn't the worst decision made in the last few years by a long shot IMO, so it wouldn't surprise me.
AMD put 384 VLIW4 cores in the A10-5800K because they probably didn't have GCN ready when Trinity was being designed, let alone ready with a 32nm reverse die-shrink and any other necessary alterations for the different process (I'm not sure if there's a different term for it, but either way, this seems to fit).
AMD's upcoming APU, Kaveri, will supposedly feature 512 GCN cores like the Radeon 7750. AMD isn't pulling punches this way, they're simply doing what they can. Also, Piledriver was a huge improvement over Bulldozer. Trinity has lower idle power consumption than even Intel's Ivy Bridge dual-core models in the same price range and that's with a great process node/technology disadvantage and a powerful on-die GPU. Even without any L3 cache, Trinity had about 15% higher performance per module at the same CPU frequency. That's higher performance at the same frequency despite not having the huge 8MiB L3 cache of the Bulldozer CPUs!
I do agree that AMD's executive staff (at least much of them) seems like the sorts who shouldn't be employed at AMD. Executives have been taking seemingly exorbitant pay checks considering the company has been going down on their watch and a lot of AMD's executive decisions over the last few years have been plain stupid IMO.
[citation][nom]mousseng[/nom]I certainly hope Piledriver's not their last major core - I think Steamroller might have what it takes to put them back into competition with Intel (whether or not that's their goal), in the enthusiast segment at least.I realize that's similar to what was said about Piledriver and Bulldozer, but expanding the modules' front end alone should show major performance boosts. I think the projections for Haswell's performance aren't terribly high, so if AMD can sustain their 10~15% increases, they'll be back in the game soon enough.[/citation]
Steamroller should improve performance by more than that, at least at the same frequency. So long as it gets into the market without any as of yet unforeseen flaws, it could be a huge improvement for AMD. Kaveri is on a 28nm node IIRC and with the improve Steamroller architecture, it could have a significant performance improvement with a significant power consumption improvement. AMD needs both if they want to catch Intel. Sure, Intel isn't making big performance leaps lately, but they have been hitting their power consumption further and further down and AMD has been getting flack for not doing the same.
Kaveri and Vishera's successor both seem to have the potential to put AMD in a good position, but looking at Vishera versus Trinity, I have doubts for Vishera's successor. Piledriver was a great improvement over Bulldozer, but Vishera seems to be greatly handicapped by the crap cache being used (more specifically, the L3 cache, but the L2 isn't really good either). This is something that AMD needs to improve greatly, perhaps even more than their front end.
Even worse, AMD already has had licensing for technologies that could greatly alleviate their cache issues for many years (Z-Ram and a little more recently, TRAM; if anyone wants a more detailed explanation, feel free to ask and I'll post one)... AMD has what they need, all that is left to do is use it! I wonder if their executives had anything to do with not using it... Why pay licensing fees for what isn't used anyway? Paying for licenses that they're not even using isn't the worst decision made in the last few years by a long shot IMO, so it wouldn't surprise me.
blazorthon
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ojas
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I doubt the intel rumor is true btw, the soldering part at least. It doesn't make sense at this point, not for desktops. Maybe after the 10nm transition takes place, but not for 14nm.
Will we see a more SoC oriented design? Yes. But i doubt it'll ever integrate the south bridge, and motherboard makers might be tasked with merely adding ports, headers, voltage regulators and pcie express slots in addition to the south bridge.
Honestly, Intel's not M$, they're not going to kill the PC. Plus they'll be hit with anti-trust lawsuits if they try, i think.
The soldering thing might be just for mobiles/tablets and perhaps even ultrabooks and notebooks. Otherwise, i doubt it'll be for desktops. Doesn't make sense for intel.
Doesn't even make much sense for them to be creating so many motherboards right now (they'll have to fill in the hole left by so many third parties), they'll need more investment, etc. and possibly face anti-trust lawsuits.
Plus that'll open the flood gates to ARM based desktops, and enthusiasts will go back to AMD.
So i call BS for now. Anyway, interesting read on Haswell/Broadwell:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture
Will we see a more SoC oriented design? Yes. But i doubt it'll ever integrate the south bridge, and motherboard makers might be tasked with merely adding ports, headers, voltage regulators and pcie express slots in addition to the south bridge.
Honestly, Intel's not M$, they're not going to kill the PC. Plus they'll be hit with anti-trust lawsuits if they try, i think.
The soldering thing might be just for mobiles/tablets and perhaps even ultrabooks and notebooks. Otherwise, i doubt it'll be for desktops. Doesn't make sense for intel.
Doesn't even make much sense for them to be creating so many motherboards right now (they'll have to fill in the hole left by so many third parties), they'll need more investment, etc. and possibly face anti-trust lawsuits.
Plus that'll open the flood gates to ARM based desktops, and enthusiasts will go back to AMD.
So i call BS for now. Anyway, interesting read on Haswell/Broadwell:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture
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