AMD, Nvidia Conspire to Price Fixing; Sued

[falchard]

lol, stupidest anti-trust lawsuit. There is a mountain of evidence against this over the last several years.

 

[EmbraceDeath]

Wow good thing this lawsuit is happening! It's what is needed to bash the monopolistic behavior of these two companies that i have bought products from in the past and will so in the future because there are no other choices.
Gee a class action lawsuit, that means "us" the consumers would stand to get refunded about $20 and the "lawyers" will get millions.Seems fair to me, and their products will go back to high prices which they will get my $20 back.I can hardly wait for the settlement(my $20), i mean the next generation of graphics cards.

 

[NightLight]

Sigh... where are the days you could actually _choose_ your computer parts from more than 2 manufacturers.

 

[Pei-chen]

This is great, I owned 3 video cards within the conspiracy period and I'm still using one. Maybe I could join the class and get some pretty $25 coupon toward my next purchase.

It doesn't matter my next 4850 class card will cost $500; I'll have my coupons mailed to me in a few years after the suit settled.

 

[taiso]

ok, ok so making business makes you an evil minded corporation? sure it was behind closed doors, but does that make it dishonest? (if you revealed ALL your business strategies to the public, the competition would eat you alive) all i see is 2 companies teaming up against one bigger company for profits and market share....isn't that what making business is all about? so what if they don't have the consumers in mind, for them isn't it all about making money in the end? is like when japan used to have a gentleman's agreement between all major manufacturers that they had to limit their horsepower from the factory to a certain number (i believe 280 HP). so were consumers supposed to argue that there was a conspiracy set out to give them lesser cars for their money?

 

[taiso]

i mean who doesn't like a good product for less? but is this lawsuit really justified? who determines the actual prices of GPUs when there is only two major families of them?

 

[Geoff_D]

Wait... none of the quotes from the emails prove a thing. It's like each sentence is being analyzed out of context, total BS. In the last quote the ATI rep mentions there desire to bring GPU respect up in comparison to the CPU market and that their current fiscal position is poor in that respect. The comment about losing what they'd built can be taken two ways: that they'd built a pricing increase in collusion or that they'd built market position compared to CPUs. Given previous text in the email, it's obvious that one could argue the latter, either way, evidence is not conclusive. Besides, rival companies always work together. And exchanging emails is normal between execs of rival companies. The emails shown here prove nothing. It *could* be construed that these companies are in collusion, but it appears from the *entire* content of what is shown that the interest is in their market and market gains... they are feeling in the shadow of the CPU giants in terms of their consumer respect and are upset about it. Whining at best. These dudes suing may just find themselves in over their heads.

 

[guyin916]

of course these legal documents this guy got is the same guy that wrote the articles regarding macs as god's best gift since peanut butter. i doubt he has the legal documents. oh, and next time run spell check ;-)

 

[x11nt4]

This does not surprise me, but price hikes have been going on since the start of the decade. I remember when nvidia had its TNT2 Ultra flagship in 1999. It cost $249 retail at bestbuy for a card with this chip, now nvidia's flagship costs $500 - $700 from newegg depending on what chip release it is. I remember reading an article here on Tomshardware back then that asked the question "why do video chipset manufactures not get as much for their product as cpu manufacturers do? " and ever since then, the price went up and up. The article basically went into the fact that video chipsets (before the name GPU was so common) were just as complex or more so than processor designs and the point was basically that they should get more for their more complex product. I'll have to try and dig it up, but I find it interesting how things have changed.

 

[mikeynavy1976]

I agree with Taiso. This isn't cut and dry...yet. I want to see the actual evidence as an exercpt from an e-mail doesn't mean it is true. Someone could be making it up. If this is true and they fork out a lot money it will turn the pain from the consumers to the investors. Then gamers will crying about why there aren't more performance and technology increases.

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]guyin916[/nom]of course these legal documents this guy got is the same guy that wrote the articles regarding macs as god's best gift since peanut butter. i doubt he has the legal documents. oh, and next time run spell check ;-)[/citation]

OK guyin916 -

Firstly, I wrote both the Mac articles as well as the article about the study that says Macs costs 2X PCs on average under my own name. Secondly, Don't call me out on something you have no background info on. Accusing me of making up information? I added one more screenshot for you with the first page of the 34 page legal document for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.tomshardware.com/gallery/amd-nvidia-price-fixing,0101-156843-4553----jpg-.html

And if you don't like it, search for the firm Boies, Schiller and Flexner LLP.
If you don't know who David Boies here, you can stop your baseless "doubt" right there.

Look up David Boies when you have the time. I'm sure you've heard of the SCO vs. Linux case as well as the famous DOJ vs. Microsoft cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boies

http://www.gpuantitrust.com/

"oh, and next time check your facts"

/ Tuan

 

[sirrell]

About time someone stopped the prices being fixed!!!!
They should be competing against each other to keep prices down!!
Not working together to overcharge all of us!
My next card will be 280GTX hopefully they become more affordable now!

But We all know that it will be settled out of court for a huge lump sum, (bribe to shut them up.)
With all their price fixing they'll have plenty of dollars to spare.

 

[eklipz330]

although im pro gpu's and con lawsuits, i actually support this one...

 

[customisbetter]

Is it just me or does anybody else not care? I don't feel ripped off at all and i don't think setting a minimum price segment is "fixing".

 

[customisbetter]

Double
Everyone bring up that flagship gpus used to cost less, "so what"?
New materials and designs that haven't been used before shouldn't be expected to cost the same and the generation from 6 years ago.
I also used to be able to get candy at the store for 75 cents. Now its $1.50. Same thing, no new materials or building process. I think i am getting a good deal on my GPU.

Someone please give a proper rebuttal.

 

[jaragon13]

[citation][nom]customisbetter[/nom]DoubleEveryone bring up that flagship gpus used to cost less, "so what"?New materials and designs that haven't been used before shouldn't be expected to cost the same and the generation from 6 years ago. I also used to be able to get candy at the store for 75 cents. Now its $1.50. Same thing, no new materials or building process. I think i am getting a good deal on my GPU.Someone please give a proper rebuttal.[/citation]
Nope,sorry,I can't.

[citation][nom]customisbetter[/nom]Is it just me or does anybody else not care? I don't feel ripped off at all and i don't think setting a minimum price segment is "fixing".[/citation]
Yeah,really.

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]customisbetter[/nom]DoubleEveryone bring up that flagship gpus used to cost less, "so what"?New materials and designs that haven't been used before shouldn't be expected to cost the same and the generation from 6 years ago. I also used to be able to get candy at the store for 75 cents. Now its $1.50. Same thing, no new materials or building process. I think i am getting a good deal on my GPU.Someone please give a proper rebuttal.[/citation]

Alright -

Firstly, your example about candy is sadly incorrect. The reason why the candy costs more without "new materials or building process" is due to something called inflation. Inflation and price fixing is NOT the same thing.

Let me give you a clear example:

Company A makes a GPU as well as Company B.
Under normal circumstances, Company A release a product at $100. Company B sees this as a threat to its customer base and releases a competitive product at $80, undercutting Company A, thus giving some competition. At this point, Company A can do 3 things:

- Think its product is superior and not do anything
- Lower its cost to match or beat Company B
- Come out with an even better product to compete

This game, called Competition, goes back and forth, giving the end consumer several advantages: continually lowered prices, better products. More choices.

Under a price fixing scenario:

Company A and B call up each other without public knowledge or a public forum and decides that instead of lowering their prices (to benefit consumers), they set a price point where they agree to set their products so they:

- Pocket more money
- No innovation necessary (since there's no urgency to compete)
- Spend less on marketing, R&D to compete
- Save their bottom line

This is NOT the same as your candy situation. Everything today costs MORE today because of INFLATION. The same products today would cost LESS if they were released 10 years ago.

/ Tuan

 

[chris312]

I think what Custom was trying to say was that the argument of high-end graphics cards being double what high end graphics cards used to be was as much evidence for price fixing as candy costing twice as much today as it used to. Inflation is to blame for candy, and I think his point was that it is probably to blame for the graphics cards. There also are such factors as

larger die sizes
more R&D costs
lawyer fees due to class action lawsuits

No one is going to benefit from this suit but the lawyers.

And the intent may be to help out the free market, but is the market free if the government's got its hands all in it?

 

[ckthecerealkiller]

Wow that kind of makes me realize why I always wondered why they were always the same/similar prices anymore. Yet, I have noticed how there can be considerable differences in price of CPU's between AMD and Intel. I also hear so much more comparison of ATI Nvidia then I do of AMD/Intel. Yet, presumably, the battle between AMD/Intel should have more precedence. As a computer cannot function without a CPU yet they do it everyday without a video card (GPU).

 

[enewmen]

I think people forgot about Intel. I think this will be more obvious with descrete graphics like the Larrabee.
I agree with most. The only people to benifit are the lawyers. I don't see the GPUs as "too" expensive considering how much engineering goes in them. I did believe the old DRAM lawsuit though.

 

[Guest]

If this lowers the price of GPU's I'm happy. I dont feel either way about it otherwise.

 

[ZootyGray]

Price of gas? All those companies. And price goes up because it's a holiday? Or is it because there were 7 leaves that fell off the 3rd tree near the driveway on Tuesday.

And who is driving that bus? Money funnel - and now we will trust oil co's with alt-energy? duh. Bend over, you asked for it.

This is a bs lawsuit. What's happening in spintel case? More about that please, and some action please.

And what's this spew about Larab - it's spintel's desparation for onboard vid. big deal. But u have to wait 2 yrs to find out - wow - give me a break - that's why it's 'spintel' wake up and learn the truth cos you won't get it from them.

Unbelievable free society of total morons. What is this - head banging for profit and pleasure?

 

[androticus]

This action is a profound violation of the inalienable individual rights of association, production, and trade to which the parties are entitled. "Antitrust" law, and all similar commercial laws are morally invalid. Business people are an outrageously oppressed minority, who are responsible for making our modern and comfortable lives possible, but are treated like thralls. But this discrimination will not end until the business people themselves start standing up for their moral right, and oppose on principle the unjustified and sadistic discrimination to which they have sadly become accustomed.

 

[Guest]

This is awful. There aren't real competitors in the graphics market. The evidence provided proves little to nothing. They're not even speaking of promoting their products exclusively, in fact they're speaking of promoting the power of GPUs, in response to the overwhelming advertising revenue of Intel. The consumers aren't being hurt by the companies actions. Consumers will be hurt by the lawyer's actions.

 

[vekere]

Hurry try making a Crossfire whit a GeForce it will work and vice versa