Very attractive and congratulations to AMD!!
May you overclock these processors and have another showdown?
May you overclock these processors and have another showdown?
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mapesdhs
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- Jan 22, 2007
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I'm about to begin upgading my brother's PC to a new AM2+ mbd, Athlon2 X4 620, 4890.
Without a doubt, this article is not really that useful for forming conclusions
unless OC results are included. We went with the 620 precisely because, in review
articles, it achieves such high OCs even with the retail AMD cooler.
Given the numerous comment requests for OC results, surely it would have been better
to delay the article until OC tests could be run? Then the comments could focus on
discussing the full results spread.
Please include OC results asap. Until then, the article doesn't present any
genuinely useful data in terms of making a purchasing decision.
Thanks!
Ian.
PS. And some guidance on a good air cooler would be most welcome. Anyone know if
the Thermalright XP-90 is compatible with AM2+ mbds?
Without a doubt, this article is not really that useful for forming conclusions
unless OC results are included. We went with the 620 precisely because, in review
articles, it achieves such high OCs even with the retail AMD cooler.
Given the numerous comment requests for OC results, surely it would have been better
to delay the article until OC tests could be run? Then the comments could focus on
discussing the full results spread.
Please include OC results asap. Until then, the article doesn't present any
genuinely useful data in terms of making a purchasing decision.
Thanks!
Ian.
PS. And some guidance on a good air cooler would be most welcome. Anyone know if
the Thermalright XP-90 is compatible with AM2+ mbds?
the "Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition" has a pretty high chance of successfully getting 2 extra cores unlocked...I wonder why there has been no mention of that in this article...obviously most people who overclock will also try to do core-unlocking (it's as easy as changing a bios setting if you have the luck of the draw and bought one with 4 good cores)
nerrawg
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- Aug 22, 2008
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Great article!
I agree with dirtmountain on this - need to see good stable 24-7 overclocks using a decent air cpu cooler like a xigmatek or a titan fenrir. If an overclocking article is done it should look at the E5200 as this will undoubtably perform similar to the E6500 (which is a waste of money. When overclocked it will also be interesting to see if the unlocked multiplier of the X3 720 is the better buy or if it is possible to get around need this with the Athlon X4 and the X3 710. As stats are already available for the E5200 and the X3 720 all you guys would need to do is test the cpu's in this article on comparible plattforms.
I agree with dirtmountain on this - need to see good stable 24-7 overclocks using a decent air cpu cooler like a xigmatek or a titan fenrir. If an overclocking article is done it should look at the E5200 as this will undoubtably perform similar to the E6500 (which is a waste of money. When overclocked it will also be interesting to see if the unlocked multiplier of the X3 720 is the better buy or if it is possible to get around need this with the Athlon X4 and the X3 710. As stats are already available for the E5200 and the X3 720 all you guys would need to do is test the cpu's in this article on comparible plattforms.
I have Athlon II x4 620 on very cheap Gigabyte Gigabyte GA-M720-US3 (nForce 720D) (in Serbia this combo costs about 145eur), it's super solid on 3.50Ghz (with NO voltage increase), stock cooler, temps are fantastic, 40c idle - 55c load. That's cheap, fast and future proof. In this case it's simply THE best buy (Performance is 99% of phenom II x4 @3.4Ghz)..
dragonsprayer
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- Jan 3, 2007
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since the dawn of man AMD has set the speed high on the their cpu's - the famous fx-60 barely run 10% faster then the stock speed. And overclocking as in mainstream as premium gas for a car.
We all know that intel chips overclock 25%, in fact it is standard for intel chips overclock 25%. 2.4ghz q6600 loved 3.6ghs or 50% oc. Low bus speed cpu's like the same 400fsb as the hgih bus chips.
whats my point? another article sqewed for amd!
sure3, yes, ok - phenom II finally has a 25% headroom - amd must of messed up?
set the systems to the optimal speed and use the overclocking features that are in just about every mobo.
like the article but it the same complaint i make every year!
We all know that intel chips overclock 25%, in fact it is standard for intel chips overclock 25%. 2.4ghz q6600 loved 3.6ghs or 50% oc. Low bus speed cpu's like the same 400fsb as the hgih bus chips.
whats my point? another article sqewed for amd!
sure3, yes, ok - phenom II finally has a 25% headroom - amd must of messed up?
set the systems to the optimal speed and use the overclocking features that are in just about every mobo.
like the article but it the same complaint i make every year!
X4 is more future proof to be sure. Also, it performs much better over all when multitasking and non gaming applications are considered (Like winrar to unzip your newly bootlegged games). I just don't like how slow it is in some cases. If you have the money spend a bit more for a faster quad.
Also, I don't understand overclocking. I know too many people personally who fried their CPU & MB, because X% OC wasn't enough and they wanted Y%. The small performance increase from OCing is not justified in my opinion, considering the risk. Also keep in mind that the benefit is not one to one, for example if u OC by 20% the performance improvement will be less then 20% with an average improvement of maybe 15%. This gets worse the higher one OCs. So a 50% OC will get maybe 25% more performance on average. Also, to get any real OCing u usually need to invest money in cooling. Most stock processors can only achieve maybe 10-15% more performance from OC without investing in cooling. Notice i said 10-15% performance not clock speed increase, the two are not the same. Since we are talking about 100$ CPUs here, it would be better to invest the money in a better CPU.
Also, I don't understand overclocking. I know too many people personally who fried their CPU & MB, because X% OC wasn't enough and they wanted Y%. The small performance increase from OCing is not justified in my opinion, considering the risk. Also keep in mind that the benefit is not one to one, for example if u OC by 20% the performance improvement will be less then 20% with an average improvement of maybe 15%. This gets worse the higher one OCs. So a 50% OC will get maybe 25% more performance on average. Also, to get any real OCing u usually need to invest money in cooling. Most stock processors can only achieve maybe 10-15% more performance from OC without investing in cooling. Notice i said 10-15% performance not clock speed increase, the two are not the same. Since we are talking about 100$ CPUs here, it would be better to invest the money in a better CPU.
i would like to see overclocking potential, but i do not think it was necessary for an article like this. Not every budget gamer is an overclocking fiend, and overclocking potential can vary greatly. This article is about performance that can be counted on for your money. Oh, and thanks again Tom's for making me still feel good about my AMD purchase 3 years go, the CPU is still a strong contender and the base hardware has a bright future, same motherboard, same ram, with new CPU's being made for it >).
I think Tom's should do an over clocking article separately for those that look at those numbers, but I am glad that they didn't include them in this article. Personally we have two gaming rigs in our house (AMD/SLi) for my teenage son and myself (my 5th SLi rig to date) and we have never over clocked CPU's or GPU's on any of them.
We also belong to a local PC gaming club of sorts with around thirty members and only one person in the group has done so. He went way out there though with a water-cooled CPU, water-cooled Quad SLi, the works and he bought it that way from a boutique shop.
The rest of us build new rigs from time to time, but we look at sites like tom's and try to come up with the best bang for the buck when we do so. We rarely by the top of the line gear, we buy the look for the 90% of the performance for 60% of the price models that are a much better buy.
I think that the two types of builders should have separate articles. One being the best bang for the buck articles showing the gear like you would unpack it from newegg and then an advanced article on the same gear over clocked showing what you could reasonably expect to get out of the gear.
We also belong to a local PC gaming club of sorts with around thirty members and only one person in the group has done so. He went way out there though with a water-cooled CPU, water-cooled Quad SLi, the works and he bought it that way from a boutique shop.
The rest of us build new rigs from time to time, but we look at sites like tom's and try to come up with the best bang for the buck when we do so. We rarely by the top of the line gear, we buy the look for the 90% of the performance for 60% of the price models that are a much better buy.
I think that the two types of builders should have separate articles. One being the best bang for the buck articles showing the gear like you would unpack it from newegg and then an advanced article on the same gear over clocked showing what you could reasonably expect to get out of the gear.
curnel_D
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- Jun 5, 2007
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[citation][nom]_mrvtcng_[/nom]Bah... Intel Pentium is always crap! I have a Pentium D 3.0 GHz a year ago. It runs very HOT and waste much electricity. Besides, the fan is very noisy and also my power supply is burned[/citation]
There's a big huge difference between PentiumD's built from the prescott cores and the Pentium Dualcores built from Core2's.
[citation][nom]zipzoomflyhigh[/nom]The 550 also overclocks to 4ghz, negating your stupid pointless post. This is a stock clock test, not a overclock test.The E6500 consistently got eaten for breakfast.[/citation]
No one want's to read your fanboisms. We just want a full comprehensive benchmark of the processors in all of the enviroments they may be used in.
Once more, you trolls need to find a place that appricates your ignorance. (Clue: not here)
There's a big huge difference between PentiumD's built from the prescott cores and the Pentium Dualcores built from Core2's.
[citation][nom]zipzoomflyhigh[/nom]The 550 also overclocks to 4ghz, negating your stupid pointless post. This is a stock clock test, not a overclock test.The E6500 consistently got eaten for breakfast.[/citation]
No one want's to read your fanboisms. We just want a full comprehensive benchmark of the processors in all of the enviroments they may be used in.
Once more, you trolls need to find a place that appricates your ignorance. (Clue: not here)
I wouldn't really take this article to seriously, the Intel benchies should have been with at least a P45 motherboard if not an X48. This is a "Gaming" cpu article is it not? That said, this being a "Value" article, OC results should have been included as well. Take this article with a grain of salt.
mapesdhs
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- Jan 22, 2007
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The point about the oc potential of the 620 is that it's basically
extra performance for free, because even the naff retail AMD
cooler can allow it to run at 3.25. No, the results should be in
the same article. *How* they should be presented is another
matter, but it would definitely be useful to compare, and at the
same time would allow one to see whether oc'ing these sorts of
CPUs makes a significant difference.
Ian.
extra performance for free, because even the naff retail AMD
cooler can allow it to run at 3.25. No, the results should be in
the same article. *How* they should be presented is another
matter, but it would definitely be useful to compare, and at the
same time would allow one to see whether oc'ing these sorts of
CPUs makes a significant difference.
Ian.
Well most definitely OC represents unlocked potential at a lower price point. I run an E5200 OC'ed to 3.4GHZ 24/7 for the last 6 months. I bought a cheap Deep Cool Ice Blade Pro.
At 3.4Ghz (2.5Ghz is stock) the E5200 idles at 34-36 degrees and at full load using PRIME95/ OCCT/ Orthos Blend test the CPU never goes above 47 degrees. This aftermarket cooler works even better with AMD CPUs'. It is rated in the top 10 for AMD (http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2405)
The point is at 3.4GHz and more so at higher speeds the desktop experience is very noticeable. Everything is just so much more responsive. The benefits are tangible. There is no cons. I have OC'ed every CPU I have had and none have failed. Aftermarket cooling and no scary voltage bumps ensures trouble free gaming while having the extra cash to channel to other components like Graphics cards etc.
All it costs is patience and time.....once off.
Over here AMD does not represent the same value as in the States. AMD mobos are relatively more expensive and the CPUs' are not as widely available and carry up to 50% premium which makes it unfeasible.
As far as the AMD vs Intel debate you can't really go wrong with either. I buy whatever represents the best bang for the buck at the time of purchase. That being said AMD does offer more features on their mobos and Virtualization at a much lower price point for those of us that like to play with VMWare and the likes.
At 3.4Ghz (2.5Ghz is stock) the E5200 idles at 34-36 degrees and at full load using PRIME95/ OCCT/ Orthos Blend test the CPU never goes above 47 degrees. This aftermarket cooler works even better with AMD CPUs'. It is rated in the top 10 for AMD (http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2405)
The point is at 3.4GHz and more so at higher speeds the desktop experience is very noticeable. Everything is just so much more responsive. The benefits are tangible. There is no cons. I have OC'ed every CPU I have had and none have failed. Aftermarket cooling and no scary voltage bumps ensures trouble free gaming while having the extra cash to channel to other components like Graphics cards etc.
All it costs is patience and time.....once off.
Over here AMD does not represent the same value as in the States. AMD mobos are relatively more expensive and the CPUs' are not as widely available and carry up to 50% premium which makes it unfeasible.
As far as the AMD vs Intel debate you can't really go wrong with either. I buy whatever represents the best bang for the buck at the time of purchase. That being said AMD does offer more features on their mobos and Virtualization at a much lower price point for those of us that like to play with VMWare and the likes.
FoShizzleDizzle
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- Apr 22, 2009
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[citation][nom]TheCapulet[/nom]The Pentium DC can effortlesly overclock to 3.6, giving it a steep clock edge.[/citation]
Steep clock edge? Sorry Intel fanboy, as much as you'd like to spout out lies to make your boys in blue look like heroes, it's it's not true. Tom's did an article on overclocking with a locked multiplier where the Phenom II 710 reached 3744Mhz. So 3.6 shouldn't be too much of a problem for that CPU, either. The 550 has an unlocked multiplier and is known to reach up to around 4GHz, too. So you're halfway right, there is a steep clock edge. But it's in favor of the Phenom II.
Here's that article btw, chalk it up: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-cpu-overclock,2396.html
[citation][nom]Curnel_D[/nom]FO3's graphic technology is all that great, but the art direction that Bethesda took made it a great looking game.Another game that does this really well is Operation Flashpoint 2.[/citation]
Comparing the crappy, blurred textures and mediocre models of OFDR to the stunning and clearly superior Fallout 3? FO3 is universally applauded for it's amazing graphics. On the other hand one of the biggest weaknesses of Dragon Rising, as most reviews will mention, are it's terrible graphics that are akin to something from Playstation 2. There's really no contest here.
Steep clock edge? Sorry Intel fanboy, as much as you'd like to spout out lies to make your boys in blue look like heroes, it's it's not true. Tom's did an article on overclocking with a locked multiplier where the Phenom II 710 reached 3744Mhz. So 3.6 shouldn't be too much of a problem for that CPU, either. The 550 has an unlocked multiplier and is known to reach up to around 4GHz, too. So you're halfway right, there is a steep clock edge. But it's in favor of the Phenom II.
Here's that article btw, chalk it up: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-cpu-overclock,2396.html
[citation][nom]Curnel_D[/nom]FO3's graphic technology is all that great, but the art direction that Bethesda took made it a great looking game.Another game that does this really well is Operation Flashpoint 2.[/citation]
Comparing the crappy, blurred textures and mediocre models of OFDR to the stunning and clearly superior Fallout 3? FO3 is universally applauded for it's amazing graphics. On the other hand one of the biggest weaknesses of Dragon Rising, as most reviews will mention, are it's terrible graphics that are akin to something from Playstation 2. There's really no contest here.
If you factor the overclocking possibility of these processors, the result change completely. But, you need to change the motherboard selection. Using at least a 790X-based and P45-based motherboard will boost your overclocking possibility and stock performance.
The PII X2 550 is clearly a big winner here if you get to unlock all of his four cores. You basicaly end up with a X4 955 for 100$ less. The unlocked multiplier also garantee you some nice and easy overclocking.
The Athlon X4 620 and Phenom X3 710 could get a nice boost too by rising the FSB, but on AMD this isn't the best way.
For the Intel side, the best pick would be the 5400, with its 13.5 and low 800Mhz FSB, its bomb ready to explose. If you get a good revision, you can raise the FSB and get a nice 33% overclock easily.
The PII X2 550 is clearly a big winner here if you get to unlock all of his four cores. You basicaly end up with a X4 955 for 100$ less. The unlocked multiplier also garantee you some nice and easy overclocking.
The Athlon X4 620 and Phenom X3 710 could get a nice boost too by rising the FSB, but on AMD this isn't the best way.
For the Intel side, the best pick would be the 5400, with its 13.5 and low 800Mhz FSB, its bomb ready to explose. If you get a good revision, you can raise the FSB and get a nice 33% overclock easily.
ewood
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- Mar 6, 2009
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[citation][nom]_mrvtcng_[/nom]Bah... Intel Pentium is always crap! I have a Pentium D 3.0 GHz a year ago. It runs very HOT and waste much electricity. Besides, the fan is very noisy and also my power supply is burned[/citation]
this 'pentium' and the pentium d you had are in no way the same except for the name. know what youre talking about before you talk.
this 'pentium' and the pentium d you had are in no way the same except for the name. know what youre talking about before you talk.
ewood
Distinguished
- Mar 6, 2009
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[citation][nom]FoShizzleDizzle[/nom]Steep clock edge? Sorry Intel fanboy, as much as you'd like to spout out lies to make your boys in blue look like heroes, it's it's not true. Tom's did an article on overclocking with a locked multiplier where the Phenom II 710 reached 3744Mhz. So 3.6 shouldn't be too much of a problem for that CPU, either. The 550 has an unlocked multiplier and is known to reach up to around 4GHz, too. So you're halfway right, there is a steep clock edge. But it's in favor of the Phenom II.Here's that article btw, chalk it up: http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] ,2396.htmlComparing the crappy, blurred textures and mediocre models of OFDR to the stunning and clearly superior Fallout 3? FO3 is universally applauded for it's amazing graphics. On the other hand one of the biggest weaknesses of Dragon Rising, as most reviews will mention, are it's terrible graphics that are akin to something from Playstation 2. There's really no contest here.[/citation]
nah the intel should hit 4+ ghz pretty easy from my experience. should be a good fight
nah the intel should hit 4+ ghz pretty easy from my experience. should be a good fight
- Mar 7, 2003
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[citation][nom]lavacon[/nom]I wouldn't really take this article to seriously, the Intel benchies should have been with at least a P45 motherboard if not an X48. This is a "Gaming" cpu article is it not? That said, this being a "Value" article, OC results should have been included as well. Take this article with a grain of salt.[/citation]
So your saying the E6500 will magically get a big performance boost from a P45 or X48?
Your comment needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
As far as OC results, I asked folks for their opinion and it seems pretty universal. There will be a follow-up.
So your saying the E6500 will magically get a big performance boost from a P45 or X48?
Your comment needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
As far as OC results, I asked folks for their opinion and it seems pretty universal. There will be a follow-up.
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]So your saying the E6500 will magically get a big performance boost from a P45 or X48?Your comment needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As far as OC results, I asked folks for their opinion and it seems pretty universal. There will be a follow-up.[/citation]
You ran benchies with the POS known as G41. This was an article based on CPUS's for value gaming and such. An appropriate chipset should have been taken into consideration. How could you in good conscience recommend G41 for a value minded gamer? It's a workstation chipset at best. Heck while your at it, why don't you just suggest using an Apevia PSU while your at it since we are working on the trash factor.
You ran benchies with the POS known as G41. This was an article based on CPUS's for value gaming and such. An appropriate chipset should have been taken into consideration. How could you in good conscience recommend G41 for a value minded gamer? It's a workstation chipset at best. Heck while your at it, why don't you just suggest using an Apevia PSU while your at it since we are working on the trash factor.
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