AMD Pushes R600 Back To May

[Heyyou27]

This stinks; I've got to wait until May to buy a new videocard. 🙁

 

[sojrner]

so you are using that to back up what Grape was saying with "ya, Nvidia is NOT gaining market share" right?

That is what I got from what you posted... just making sure I am on the same page. 😉


Honestly, looking at where vista, directX gaming and anything resembling a "killer app" that pushes us in that direction explains why the graphics market is stale right now. No-one wants to buy the 8800 in quantity until we even know how it (and anything amd has) does in dx10. We can't do that until games/other apps come out that use it. We wont get that until more ppl jump on vista. etc... just a vicious circle... while I am bummed to see amd push this so far back, I don't think things are as bad for them as many would think thanks to vista.

 

[turpit]

What this announcement means is that R600 will not be available until May. While the world keeps waiting for the flagship D3D10 hardware to compete against Nvidia's G80, we will all have to sit back and watch Nvidia gobble up market share from AMD.

Announcement double talk Decryption:

"What this announcement means is that we havent solved nearly enough of the problems with R600 yet, and the earliest we think that we can produce a sellable product will be May. Additionally it means Nvidia will be able to charge exhorbitant prices for the 8800s for 3 more months."

 

[jsc]

Its only a few things that can cause this ...

The most likely thing I can think of is that the top R600 offering is not competitive in performance with the 8800GTX.

Without even engineering samples shipping, the R600 is, at best, still semi-mythical.

john

 

[Anoobis]

You really should relax verndewd. I'm starting to worry about your health.

 

[gooeykat]

My decision to buy the 8800 GTX back in November is looking better with each passing day. I'm not so much a nVidia fanboy as I am an ATI hater. My last three cards have been 6600GT, 7600GT and now the 8800GTX. ATI provided no alternative product for any of these cards. I'm kind of late to the computer gaming world but it seems to me that there is a biased among computer users toward AMD as well as ATI. I can see why AMD is preferred (at least up until Core 2 Duo) but don't see why the blind adoration for ATI. Seems like they can't get their **** together.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

With the 8800 GTX nVidia is taking the high-end market pretty quickly.

And? How does this change due to a delay, they already had that market, and overall market share is not very greatly influenced by that market. Overall market share since the GF8800 came to market slipped on nV's side, and increased on ATi's side. So obviously, it's not as big an issue as the article implies.

The mainstream market is where they get the highest precentage of the buys, but it dosent give them more money and its the high-end market that everyone cares about the most.

Actually the mid range is where they make their money the high end above $250 amount to less than 5% of the market, so really, which one do you think the companies care about? Like

Not to mention that even if ATI will have their R600 here by April, that means that it will take them until June to come up with an X2600XT

Why would the X2900 impact the X2600 other than to delay and already to ship X2600? They don't wait to release the X2600 until 2-3 months after the X2900, they launch it when it's ready or when it's strategically benificial. So show me how the X2900 launch 'means' anything to the X2600 other than to potentially keep it from launching until the X2900 launches, why would it be 2 months later?

or who knows how much time, so nVidia is going to win, and how can they not? ATI is killing themselves.

You're going to have to come up with a better argument than that, because right now your statements have little to do with either the current state of affairs or the implications of the R600 delay. More than anything you're trying to justify your conclusion, not trying to develop a solid reasoning for what might or might not be.

 

[gooeykat]

Its only a few things that can cause this ...

The most likely thing I can think of is that the top R600 offering is not competitive in performance with the 8800GTX.

Without even engineering samples shipping, the R600 is, at best, still semi-mythical.

john

This was my guess as well, I can think of no other reason why they would delay this again.

 

[sojrner]

I think they have a good line up I just have a problem rationalising the delays and constant changing;it makes them look weak to the market wolves.

meh, market wolves and Nv forum-fanbois... you and others know that while they may be late, they are far from weak. 😉


I think everyone is jumping on them hard simply b/c of the expectation of something big since the ati buyout... reality is that amd still has to deal with things set in motion long before they took over. Bad news is that this delay was probably set in motion by events years ago. Good news is that eventually the amd influence will permeate through the ati ranks and releases may get more concrete.

Regardless. R600 will be here soon enough, but is anyone (read: developers) ready for dx10 cards? Nope... need more training.

Sand-eh floor!

and patience daniel-san. Once you catch-eh fry wit chopsticks, you will then be ready. 8)

 

[Anoobis]

I'm not so much a nVidia fanboy as I am an ATI hater.

That is one of the dumbest things I've read today. Go Matrox and S3, right??

My last three cards have been 6600GT, 7600GT and now the 8800GTX. ATI provided no alternative product for any of these cards.

The 6600GT and 7600GT are great cards (previous owner of both) but so are X800GTOs, X1800GTOs and X1650XTs. Your should clarify your statement because there may have simply been no alternative at the time you were buying which was the case with StrangeStranger.

verndewd, don't forget that they were just bought too. That's a big deal and not something that just goes over all nice and quiet. I can easily see a company that has just been bought running into scheduling issues, testing issues, management issues and a number of other delays.

 

[sojrner]

don't forget that they were just bought too. That's a big deal and not something that just goes over all nice and quiet. I can easily see a company that has just been bought running into scheduling issues, testing issues, management issues and a number of other delays.

word.

 

[sojrner]

9700pro FTW!

 

[gooeykat]

The 9700 and 9800 to the x1900xt, that is quite a gap. Maybe since you were out of the video card market for so long between the 9800 and the x1900xt you didn't realize that ATI was slacking off a bit.

I purchased 6600GT in mid 2005 (no card in the same price range from ATI that could compete), the 7600GT in March 2006 (same story, they finally released the X1650 Pro in October 2006) and then 8800GTX in November (again, same story). See the pattern? Sorry brother, the point is not moot, it's spot on.

 

[sojrner]

On my side of the making points time is money,and delays cost more everyday, add another 30 days of cost. Not my idea of agreat time in any way ,shape or form.

fair enough. Time is $ in any market... 8O


keep the faith though, competition will ensue shortly. They will both tear each other's eyes out in the octagon exhibiting perfect rex-quon-do style and everything. The winner will render starla in perfect dx-shaded glory. 8O

(and yes, that is sm3.0 level glory... 🙁 )

 

[sojrner]

The 9700 and 9800 to the x1900xt, that is quite a gap. Maybe since you were out of the video card market for so long between the 9800 and the x1900xt you didn't realize that ATI was slacking off a bit.

nope, just that the 9700/9800 pwned so much 3-D a$$ that he did not need the change. 8)

I went from the 9700pro to my current 1900xt512. My 9700pro still games hard on FEAR and others. They were just that good. 😉

 

[gooeykat]

I'm not so much a nVidia fanboy as I am an ATI hater.

That is one of the dumbest things I've read today. Go Matrox and S3, right??
As I mentioned in my post, I'm new to the computer gaming world so your clever reference has no meaning to me.

Regarding what you think of my comment, my comtempt for ATI is only in the lack of product offerings and their inability to get their products to market on time. I came within a mouse click of by buying x1900xt 256mb when I decided to wait a couple of more weeks and just get the g80. I researched both the g80 and r600 heavily and might of gone with r600 had it been available, it wasn't.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

According to Q4 data, desktop sales were stalled and the suggestion for why we did not see a huge holiday season was that people were waiting for R600.

Where does it say that?
Show me where it says that in the Peddie report;
http://www.jonpeddie.com/about/press/2007/FirstLook_Q406.shtml

What it actually says is;

“Vista, ATI’s new part (the R600), and several new add-in boards (AIBs) from Nvidia are expected to pump up the declining desktop discrete market,” Peddie added.

Not that people weren't buying cards because of the R600. To blame the R600 when the G80 launches right into the biggest buying season of the year? C'mon, you're reading more into the report than is there.

Here's a few sites that comment on the same data and neither of them say R600 either;

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070205075010.html
http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/q406gpumarket/index.php?p=01

That being said, integrated is still king in the overall market but this quarter should see Nvidia gain ground in desktop discrete.

This is based on what exactly? The same reasoning that had us believe that the launch of the G80 into the Xmas market would have nV increase their lead? Until the GF8600 launches I see no reason to believe anything will change this quarter, and then it's impact on next quarter depends alot on what else is out there. IF the GF8600 launches well enough in advance of the X2600, then we should see some major movement in these numbers, until then they are going after exactly the same markets they were last quarter, little has changed other than the addition of Vista which is also not doing as well as expected (although Office is doing Gangbusters).

Part of the reason for the increase share to AMD is in part from price drops and integrated notebook releases.

Right and the Discrete market has seen no price drops, right? :roll:
BTW, tell me integrated and mobile market has anything to do with changing the position of the discrete market where this discussion focuses it's attention? Seriously, you're reaching man.

Just like the article tries to sensationalise the delay by mentioning market share (why bother, the delay itself is news?), you're now talking about markets that are unaffected by all this.

The GTS-320 has a larger impact than the R600 delay. The killer change would be some serious DX10 apps hittin the market that would then cause the rush to upgrade, but with only nV demos to show, how much do you really think the market share will change? Heck I bet the GF7600 still outsells all the GF8800s combined 5:1 at least.

 

[quantumsheep]

ye we should really get a 9700pro tribute thread going, so far there's you, me and i'm sure cleeve will join. anyone else?

Memememememe!!!

 

[gooeykat]

Of course my opinion is just that, my opinion. It has been my experience that from mid 2005 to October 2006 (when ATI release the X1650) that there have been no mid range cards to that could compete with the 6600GT and 7600GT.

When the 8800GTX was released, I was then in the market for a high end card (again to make this clear I am not speaking for anyone else), I decided that based on price/performance ratio, it didn't make financial sense to purchase the X1950XT. I would of liked to since it was much cheaper but the 8800GTX blows it away it is only $200 more.

Again, everyone on this board is stating opinions, even you mate.

 

[gooeykat]

back when you bought your 8800 there was nothing on R600 to research, there practically still isn't. i question your intelligence myself.

Ahh, the old "I can't beat you in a debate so I'm going to call stupid" argument. Sorry brother, but there was info available on both in November. Believe me or don't, I care not. Later gators.

 

[RandMcnally]

I have a feeling that this launch will come sometime right after amd releases preliminary benches for k8l or k10 or whatever it is, barcelona. Even though it's the server chip, it is going to say to a lot of people, we're the peformance king(even if you cannot get that performance in a desktop). I think AMD doesn't want to sell have it's top of the line graphics product be in a top of the line system that isn't an AMD system. So they will wait for k8l to be atleast close, if not released, before they release r600, so that r600 ends up in their test machines. Remember that Barcelona comes a month later and then we hit Q3 and here comes Agena FX, the quad core cpu for QuadFX (might even laucnh earlier, who knows?). AMD is handicapping ATI right here, as I see it.

 

[tron]

best graphics card ever done ***whatever has inside spectrum 48k*** 20+ years ago i don't know the brand but it really changed my life 😀
now is only a 15% boost everytime a new generation comes to town

sorry ATI... my 66000gt is getting to old and if the bonus comes this month 8) i will not wait for May... the 8800gts will fit nicelly in my centurion and it will be more than enough for the upcoming 2 years so why wait? i'm sure after May you will get something new in June and September and November and 1 year from now....

greetings all

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

i mean, there aren't any benchmakrks out for the R600 and without them specs don't mean much.

Exactly! And which specs do you pick?

Do we still know the makeup of these R600 shders, people are still saying 'simple shaders' like the G80, while also saying they are deeper shaders with full Vec4 support, and more complex ROPs. And the 'simple shaders' theory/statement came after I got back from OZ, so it definitely wasn't said in Nov.

Out of all the information I've pooled I couldn't tell you what to believe anymore. And I agree the specs mean little because the theory versus practical application of that are totally different things.

Just like the X1800 versus X1900 showing little diff early on an more difference as games got more complex. This is going to be even worse, a totally new design versus a different totally new design.

I suspect both will excel in differrent areas, and can guess at what those are by rumoured specs, but until they actually bench with detailed results, Bungholiomarks don't tell me jack!

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

sorry ATI... my 66000gt is getting to old and if the bonus comes this month 8) i will not wait for May... the 8800gts will fit nicelly in my centurion

DUDE that's a Downgrade 66000 > 8800 :twisted:

BTW, yeah, why wait? The GF8800GTS-320 is a great card, solid deal, and even if something bests it, unless you really feel you need what's missing you have the benefit of gaming leading up to that time, and if need be sell it and roll it into a new card. Alsways the way to go with desktops.

 

[Anoobis]

I'm not so much a nVidia fanboy as I am an ATI hater.

That is one of the dumbest things I've read today. Go Matrox and S3, right??

As I mentioned in my post, I'm new to the computer gaming world so your clever reference has no meaning to me.

Regarding what you think of my comment, my comtempt for ATI is only in the lack of product offerings and their inability to get their products to market on time. I came within a mouse click of by buying x1900xt 256mb when I decided to wait a couple of more weeks and just get the g80. I researched both the g80 and r600 heavily and might of gone with r600 had it been available, it wasn't.
Fair enough. However the first part of my reply stays. Your comment was so blatantly fanboi that I felt compelled to call it.

In regards to your current statement, I believe you made the right decision as I would have waited too if I had to decide between an X1900XT 256MB or a 8800GTS/X that was only a few weeks away.