AMD Q2 2015 Financials Fall Short

[iam2thecrowe]

I like that they offer such cost effective options. The fact is, "bang for the buck/jack-of-all-trades" is their business strategy of choice and they will continue to lose ground until they make a true effort to be the best in the field.

well yeah they have to focus on bang for buck, If their products were competitive in the high end, you could be sure they would charge appropriately.

 

[Gaidax]

As for AMD, 2015 is more of a stop gap than anything. They said basically that at the beginning of the year. Their embedded and GPU sales will keep them treading water for this year as they set themselves up for 2016. Dibs on HBM 2 as well as experience gained using HBM 1 will help them on the GPU front, and Jim Keller will help them everywhere else. Remember, along with the Zen CPU it is highly likely he is re designing the way the whole system will operate. Hyper Transport will likely be tweaked or maybe changed completely to handle faster RAM and PCI-e speeds which will make the whole system faster of course. I am confident we will see another Atlon 64 with Zen. On top of design, Lisa Su seems to know very well what she is doing and I think she can take the company into the future given the proper hardware to work with. They are headed in a good direction overall.

If Lisa Su would know what she is doing they would not be in red for years now, she has no real strategy except trying to stretch AMD on all fronts and pray for a score somewhere.

Zen is like a unicorn at the moment, we don't know when it will really come and Intel is so advanced now that Zen literally needs to be alien technology at this point to truly compete, my guess it will be another stillborn CPU that will be decent only because of aggressive pricing. Same story with Fury, yes it's good, but when you need liquid cooling, HBM and a gigantic super-expensive die to compete with the green team on air - you know there is a major technological gap here between the two.

Let's not even talk about the fact that Fury won't bring AMD any money - the true money getters are the likes of 950TI or even lower, but with Intel's discreet graphics becoming better and better with every passing year this market closes rapidly.

What Lisa Su needs to do is to finally pick up priorities - AMD just can't try and do everything while having a mountain of debt and laughable R&D budget - they need to either focus on CPU or GPU or semi-custom/custom designs and in my opinion the last one is the most feasible, because their CPU and GPU divisions are hopeless cases really with healthy Intel and Nvidia onslaught.

 

[crisan_tiberiu]

AMD needs to sell ATI and focus on CPUs, or viceversa

 

[expunged]

AMD needs to sell ATI and focus on CPUs, or viceversa

I would say drop the CPUs, Focus on the Video cards. Try to sign a deal with IBM and use the upcoming 7nm process with HBM2. I think that would be a winner.

 

[blazorthon]

If Lisa Su would know what she is doing they would not be in red for years now, she has no real strategy except trying to stretch AMD on all fronts and pray for a score somewhere.

Zen is like a unicorn at the moment, we don't know when it will really come and Intel is so advanced now that Zen literally needs to be alien technology at this point to truly compete, my guess it will be another stillborn CPU that will be decent only because of aggressive pricing. Same story with Fury, yes it's good, but when you need liquid cooling, HBM and a gigantic super-expensive die to compete with the green team on air - you know there is a major technological gap here between the two.

Let's not even talk about the fact that Fury won't bring AMD any money - the true money getters are the likes of 950TI or even lower, but with Intel's discreet graphics becoming better and better with every passing year this market closes rapidly.

What Lisa Su needs to do is to finally pick up priorities - AMD just can't try and do everything while having a mountain of debt and laughable R&D budget - they need to either focus on CPU or GPU or semi-custom/custom designs and in my opinion the last one is the most feasible, because their CPU and GPU divisions are hopeless cases really with healthy Intel and Nvidia onslaught.

AMD might be able to. Fury X didn't need water cooling, the regular Fury proves that.

Consider AMD's significant advantage in raw math processing power over Nvidia despite gaming performance parity at best. Mantle kicked MS into gear with DirectX 12 and if anyone can benefit from lower overhead, it's definitely AMD. We'll see how it turns out next year since like Zen, as you said, it would be a unicorn too.

HBM on Fury feels more like a test run for the next generation than a standalone product. Just look at the GPU, its unbalanced and that shows in how all it has over the 290X is more cores and more memory bandwidth. It doesn't even have better ROPs or anything else really. AMD half assed it and brute forced their way to a merely somewhat better performance position. They didn't bother to try making it a better product in the GPU. I'd bet they threw the water cooler on it as an attempt to make it seem more valuable, same with the name. I doubt AMD cares if Fury or Fury X is very profitable- they just don't want to lose all the money they put into it.

Basically, let's wait and see if AMD can pull it together for next year. It looks like they're putting a lot of effort into it. I'd even go as far as saying that AMD knew part of what you said was right- they couldn't finance full competition even just with Nvidia this year, hence the bullshit with almost nothing new coming out.

 

[f-14]

AMD hasn't been profitable with out litigation since before they bought ATI, AMD truely needs to sell off the graphics card part of their company in order to get back to developing a good processor, seems all the ATI employees that were integrated and replacing AMD employees directly resulted in this collective cluster dump, this is exactly where ATI was and why ATI was in such bad shape, because the entire ATI exec staff was horrible and the driver development was terrible and non existent.

AMD should have bought Nvidia instead, then they wouldn't be in this mess even with an employee merge.

 

[InvalidError]

AMD hasn't been profitable with out litigation since before they bought ATI, AMD truely needs to sell off the graphics card part of their company in order to get back to developing a good processor

Right now, the only AMD business unit that is turning up a profit is semi-custom ASICs which includes console SoCs. If AMD ditched their GPU division, they would need to scrap their SoC plans too.

At a time where integrated graphics are becoming good enough for lower-midrange PC/laptop gaming, ditching (i)GPUs would be suicidal since it means giving up on all sales of PCs and laptops that do not require powerful enough graphics to justify a discrete GPU or lack the space, power or cost budget to afford one.

Not having a decent IGP for their desktop and especially their mobile APUs would lock AMD out of 80-90% of the market. I doubt AMD can afford that.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Well, I don't think anybody was surprised by this.

 

[Epif]

Dear Gods of Tech,

Please bless Zen! We don't want to lose AMD and have no counterpoint to Intel and Nvidia. AMD (and ATI) used to be awesome companies with awesome yet cheap and highly overclockable products. Bring back the old days please, or at least keep them breathing!

Sincerely,

Your Loyal Follower Epif

 

[Darkbreeze]

Dear Epif,

I will not. They will live or die by the sword. If they cannot survive on their own, I'm not going to intervene. I didn't create survival of the fittest for nothing. I did however throw a little monkey wrench in Intel's gears by giving them fits with their upcoming die shrink and slightly bungled production of their latest 14nm fabrication process so AMD better take advantage of it. Thanks for the prayer.

(JK. God was in no way involved in the writing of that reply )

 

[unionoob]

Real question is that. What part they have to chose. If they drop GPU and stick with CPU then do you think they will be able to compete with Intel? I think they either should make deal or let them merge with Giant like Samsung and let them compete with Intel, Nvidia on completely different stage. And if AMD loses x86 rights from Intel then it would be interesting to see how hard would courts like European Court would hit Intel over anti trust case because of monopoly.

 

[InvalidError]

And if AMD loses x86 rights from Intel then it would be interesting to see how hard would courts like European Court would hit Intel over anti trust case because of monopoly.

AMD has a perpetual non-transferable license for x86, it is impossible for AMD to lose it other than breaching the terms of their perpetual license.

If AMD screws up their rights to their perpetual license or decide to bail out of x86, there won't be any anti-trust actions against Intel since the monopoly position was achieved through market forces and other factors beyond even Intel's own control. This is assuming Intel is even still considered as a monopoly player in personal computing when mobile ARM-powered devices have 5X higher sales volume than x86 computers.

 

[Guest]

Let's not even talk about the fact that Fury won't bring AMD any money - the true money getters are the likes of 950TI or even lower, but with Intel's discreet graphics becoming better and better with every passing year this market closes rapidly.

What Lisa Su needs to do is to finally pick up priorities - AMD just can't try and do everything while having a mountain of debt and laughable R&D budget - they need to either focus on CPU or GPU or semi-custom/custom designs and in my opinion the last one is the most feasible, because their CPU and GPU divisions are hopeless cases really with healthy Intel and Nvidia onslaught.[/quotemsg]

Of course the real money is in the mainstream or lower. Fury itself isn't a huge money maker, but the tech lessons learned form it will help in the next generation where HBM could exist in lower end cards. Zen will very likely be a great product, just look at the guy who is designing it and what he has built in the past. The issue Nvidia faces in the lower end though is the fact that the 960 failed to shake up the market, and judging by how it performs, anything lower will be even less compelling. Remember that it is slower overall compared to the cards it's priced against and gives owners of older equipment no reason to upgrade. It is slower even than the 760 in some games. It also failed to out perform the existing R9 285 and older cards like the 280x, so I feel it failed as a whole. Remember the 770 compared to the 670. There was a reason to buy a 770 if you had a 670 or AMD equivalent. Intel will never have integrated graphics that are as good as comparable discrete cards from AMD or Nvidia, they have had quite a few driver issues in games with them in the recent past so that makes them harder to trust in a dedicated gaming rig.

Su doesn't have much to deal with right now, and she has not had control of the company for very long. 2016 will show how good she is at managing a company. She has done some prioritizing, though. The ARM designs that were slated for this year are history, as is Seamicro.

 

[InvalidError]

Intel will never have integrated graphics that are as good as comparable discrete cards from AMD or Nvidia

Broadwell's IGP is about on par with the R7-250X, the main problems are pricing and available desktop options not making much sense since almost nobody paying $300+ for a CPU would use the IGP for gaming.

IGPs are becoming a credible threat to the lower end of discrete GPUs and things are only going to get worse: two years from now, with HBM2 and HMC, we will likely see IGPs on par with the R7-270X or GTX960.

 

[alexluther74]

Even though I'm not an AMD fan, I sure hope they stick around, I'd hate to see what happens to Intel and Nvidia pricing should AMD fall.

 

[17seconds]

Quote:
"I suspect that a company's quarterly mishaps and fortunes rarely factor into your buying decisions."

Why not? If I'm in the market for a new video card and reading this and other financial reports about AMD, I'd factor this in without a doubt.

The declining corporate situation with AMD is directly linked to their declining expenditures on Research & Development, which is directly related to their driver support. There's no question there has been an impact over the past year or two in regards to their ability to provide prompt, frequent, and satisfactory driver fixes.

That's not something I would blindly go into a major purchasing decision without factoring in. That's particularly true if I want to keep the card for a few years.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Intel will never have integrated graphics that are as good as comparable discrete cards from AMD or Nvidia

Broadwell's IGP is about on par with the R7-250X, the main problems are pricing and available desktop options not making much sense since almost nobody paying $300+ for a CPU would use the IGP for gaming.

IGPs are becoming a credible threat to the lower end of discrete GPUs and things are only going to get worse: two years from now, with HBM2 and HMC, we will likely see IGPs on par with the R7-270X or GTX960.

If Skylakes IGP is what it is supposed to be we might see that bump to R7 260X territory and that would not be a far cry from the 270X/960.

 

[Gurg]

Even though I'm not an AMD fan, I sure hope they stick around, I'd hate to see what happens to Intel and Nvidia pricing should AMD fall.

AMD's survival probably has very little impact. Intel has pretty much been competing with itself in desk top since the 2500k. Intel knows that it needs to offer at least 5-10% improvement with each new desktop CPU or no one will bother to update. Its pricing has also remained pretty constant and even the pricing of a 5820k with bundle at Microcenter is very attractive for a new performance build now that DDR4 memory prices have leveled. For lower end GPU performance the combined CPU/GPU chips keep improving and competing with lower level discrete video cards and smaller form devices. If Nvidia wants to stay in business it also has to keep offering improved products at the higher end which keep trickling down in price to the middle market.

Both Intel and Nvidia are well aware of the price/performance trade off points to maximize their profits. The intermediate pot of gold for both companies is producing products that will make 4k work well enough at a reasonable price that will entice consumers to shift to 4k.

 

[InvalidError]

Both Intel and Nvidia are well aware of the price/performance trade off points to maximize their profits. The intermediate pot of gold for both companies is producing products that will make 4k work well enough at a reasonable price that will entice consumers to shift to 4k.

I do not think 4k is going to be a "pot of gold" for Intel in the foreseeable future since they are barely getting reasonably playable at 1080p60 with low/medium-low on their newest IGPs. It will take many more years for IGPs to catch up with 4k.

Since IGPs are generally intended for the low-end computers, they are unlikely to get paired with 4k displays very often much beyond the desktop and 2D content.

 

[Gurg]

Both Intel and Nvidia are well aware of the price/performance trade off points to maximize their profits. The intermediate pot of gold for both companies is producing products that will make 4k work well enough at a reasonable price that will entice consumers to shift to 4k.

I do not think 4k is going to be a "pot of gold" for Intel in the foreseeable future since they are barely getting reasonably playable at 1080p60 with low/medium-low on their newest IGPs. It will take many more years for IGPs to catch up with 4k.

Since IGPs are generally intended for the low-end computers, they are unlikely to get paired with 4k displays very often much beyond the desktop and 2D content.

Its not the IGP chips per se , but the overall demand when people finally upgrade their 3-5 year old computers for 4k.

 

[Guest]

Yea IGP's are great for budget systems, but as said above a premium priced CPU will not power a budget machine and it's IGP won't be useful for a high end one. That is what will keep low end GPU's alive until the price on powerful CPU's with strong IGP's go down. People with old rigs trying to squeeze more life out of them are also good for the low end GPU's. My brother for example wanted to plug his Athlon 64 dual core rig into the TV to use for movies, so I got him an R7 250 for $60 and it works great for what we got it for. It's old on board Nvidia GPU doesn't work with HDMI and isn't supported anymore, so he needed to either buy a whole new rig or buy a cheap GPU. It's hard to beat $60 for keeping a computer usable for another few years.

The other question is how well an IGP's memory will work with memory hogging games in the future as compared to discrete. Games are only going to get more demanding as time goes on of course.

 

[Rexolaboy]

IMO, AMD has been working harder than Intel and Nvidia. They have less financial resources available and thus less money to go into R&D. I buy AMD simply because they are the underdog and they work harder with less to make the best they can. It's like the movie "Money ball", where a team in MLB that make's a quarter of the revenue as other teams still has to compete in the same league and at the same level. AMD has been making competitve products the whole time. Yes they may fall a few FPS to titles here and there and the power and thermals are a little higher, but overall they have a great product and a competitive price(Oh no I have to buy a new PSU 6 months sooner than i wanted). I buy AMD because without some competition Intel and Nvidia will be able to charge whatever they want(and with Intel and the core 2 & 4 we know that could get ugly). AMD doesn't compete in the high end with intel because they have a fraction of what intel has in revenue and thus less on R&D. AMD has done a fantastic job on price/performance area, you know, the most important area. I love hearing from the fanboys all the problems AMD has had with drivers. I have owned 4 AMD cards and 1 Nvidia card. I've only had driver problems wilth the ONE Nvdia card i had. I see that the general public has less money to buy on new equipment for their computer, but AMD has had their hands full for many years and still had competitive products. If your hoping for an AMD product to blow either companys out of the water, you are mistaken. They haven't the money or the time to do that, they need your support to further their cause and that isn't going to happen if nobody buys their product. Which it appears has slowed down in a industry wide effort.

So much about this post is awesome. You and I think alike, AMD isn't just an underdog, I like their creativity and daring. I really hope things pan out for them with Zen and HBM2, I have owned tons of GPU's from Nvidia and they did well, but I like what AMD has to offer as well. I use a Toshiba Laptop for web surfing and light gaming, it has an AMD A10-4600m and 16gbs of Low Latency Kingston Ram, I bought this laptop in 2012 for $550 and will use it for a long time from now..

 

[expunged]

I have owned cards from both companies. I really hope AMD can make a comeback financially. Having competition is what drives new tech discoveries. Mainly I would hate to see what Nvidia would do without any competition, probably stagnate.

 

[goodguy713]

Well, they have until some debts are due in 2019. Keller's leading Zen, and it looks like AMD might have the 14nm line, plus they had dibs on HBM2 modules. I have high hopes, it's just going to be a bumpy road the rest of this year.

I'm hoping we see Zen or possibly a 14/16nm FinFet Excavator before the end of the year. And that looks to be a massive strategic move, corning the market on HBM2, guessing we'll see a refresh to the Fury line soonish with HBM2 and increased memory. Need holing my breath on that though.

Its obvious people do research now days they don't just randomly go out and buy a processor or a graphics card. It really comes down to bad design choices. Ive been looking waiting for something worth while to upgrade to from my 1090t. sure there are better processors out there. and to be honest ive been eyeballing an intel 6 core just for the simple fact that it is the only real positive performance and power benefit sure the platform costs more but when you have the best processors you get more money.. more demand for your products im holding out for this next cpu release and unless I see meaningful differences. I plan to go intel I love to save money I don't need the best or the bleeding edge. Just something that will last me until my next upgrade cycle witch tends to be every 5 years.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat here. Still sitting on my 1090T, been eying upgrades. But either way I go I have to buy a new motherboard, since my 890Fx deluxe 4 won't support the newer Piledriver CPU's. Which begs the question, do I want to upgrade to a 990FX when AM3 may be a dead end socket. Or Switch to Intel, and go a mid range i5.... I've really been wanting to wait for at least Excavator on the desktop or Zen before upgrading though. On the other hand, I may replace my old HD7850 with an R9 Fury, especially if I can catch one on sale.

Yea I was also considering a fury but at this point and just throwing it into the next system I build. I am a loyal amd fan but. the main considerations are performance first and if it draws less power then more savings in the long term. with VR and other techs coming along with in the next year or two I want to upgrade. up until now I haven't had a good reason to. 1090t has been a great processor. still haven't found a game I couldn't play at 1080p. so whats the point? but VR on the other hand.. well that's something ive always wanted to try and more than likely will be the thing that pushes my upgrade. I just don't want to end up waiting until December or September of next year to get a new processor soon the better honestly.

 

[Ninjawithagun]

im holding out for this next cpu release and unless I see meaningful differences.

I am in the process of building a new system now going to use a haswell chip, due to skylake not having enough pci lanes. Come on Intel 20 lanes are you kidding..

You have it backwards. Skylake will have support for 40+ PCI-E 4.0 lanes. You are thinking of the Intel Haswell-E 5920K CPU which only has support for 20 PCI-E 3.0 lanes.