AMD Radeon HD 7950 Review: Up Against GeForce GTX 580

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tubers

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[citation][nom]stm1185[/nom]It is not pretty awesome that your next gen part that you priced slightly below the competitors flagship last gen part outperforms it in some tests. That is to be excepted. The 7950 is not against a gtx 570, its against a gtx670 which is not out yet, and will probably be replaced around the same price point as a 570 with a large performance increase over it, making buying a $450 7950 retarded; as such the 7950 will then get dropped to where the 6950 is now to be competitive.Anyone who buys a 7950 before AMD at $450 is a chump. 30%+ price drop as soon as Nvidia releases its next gen.[/citation]

Anyone who buys a GTX 670 before a HD8950 at cheaper $ is a chump. 30%+ price drop as soon as ATI releases its next gen.

See? What such pointless argument the way these 2 companies do "gen" battles.

What's important is the availability in TODAY's market and TODAY AMD/ATI wins.

With your logic, might as well never buy any more GPUs.

Yup, fanboy.
 

dragonsqrrl

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[citation][nom]tubers[/nom]Anyone who buys a GTX 670 before a HD8950 at cheaper $ is a chump. 30%+ price drop as soon as ATI releases its next gen.See? What such pointless argument the way these 2 companies do "gen" battles.What's important is the availability in TODAY's market and TODAY AMD/ATI wins.With your logic, might as well never buy any more GPUs.Yup, fanboy.[/citation]
There are short periods of time when competing GPU generations are released, and I think any informed consumer of discrete graphics should be well aware of this. Now this varies from one generation to the next, but the release schedules also aren't nearly as continuous and seamless as you're making them out to be. Your argument about the GTX670 and HD8950 is irrelevant, as the period of time between these releases is likely to be far greater than the period between the GTX670 and HD7950.

Using your logic, and given similar pricing, any graphics card would offer the same value across its lifetime, regardless of proximity to a newer and better competing product. So as an extreme example, buying a GTX580 a day before the release of the HD7970 would've offered the exact same value as a GTX580 bought 1 year ago, because what's important is availability TODAY, and TODAY Nvidia wins. I think ignoring the basic concept of a generational release schedule in relation to the long term value a card will offer is not dissimilar from simply being uninformed. It's just ignorance on the part of the buyer.

... That is, unless you buy a new graphics card every 6 months. In that case, I suppose none of the points I made would really matter to you.
 

stevenrix

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I am running actually a pair of 6870's and it runs great under BF3 with ULTRA settings. I just don't think i will invest anytime soon in a new video card as long as i don't see enough video games that really justify an upgrade. I support the PC gaming industry and I buy a bunch of games, around 2 games a week (on PC, Xbox 360 and PS3), but it's been now more than 2 years that I haven't seen enough good PC games, so that's why I'm very reluctant in buying a new video card. The performance of the 7900s are here but they won't make me forget there is just not enough kick-assed games to justify a new video card.

15 years ago, we had so much choice in terms of video cards on the market, and they were affordable. Now the market is only reduced to 2 main competitors and consumers are the prey of a controlled monopoly that decide which price should be adopted. On the US side, people got lucky because they pay at less 20% less than the global market, and i still think it's too expensive despite being an avid video gamer.

 

The Halo Don

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Is it me or is the 7950 is bit too pricey, I'd much rather get a 7970.

But who am I to say, I'm extremely satisfied with my 6870.

PS: Cant wait to see what Nvidia brings to the table!
 
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Ah the good ole fanboy flame war. Grow up kids, every one of you, wait a couple of months until nvidia brings some thing to the plate and start a price war with amd, then prices will fall down long enough to enjoy AAA performance at decent prices.

Besides, until the full next generation of consoles is in full swing we won't be seeing real graphic advancements in PC games, blame it on big publishers btw, so you will barely be missing something big by skipping this gen of gpus altogether, not saying you need to, but act like actual grow ups and focus on the ROI for your money, not the brand or 10fps more.
 

Gordon Freeman

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[citation][nom]Ramono[/nom]Ah the good ole fanboy flame war. Grow up kids, every one of you, wait a couple of months until nvidia brings some thing to the plate and start a price war with amd, then prices will fall down long enough to enjoy AAA performance at decent prices. Besides, until the full next generation of consoles is in full swing we won't be seeing real graphic advancements in PC games, blame it on big publishers btw, so you will barely be missing something big by skipping this gen of gpus altogether, not saying you need to, but act like actual grow ups and focus on the ROI for your money, not the brand or 10fps more.[/citation]
Prices have never dropped in the past due to a new series why would they now LOL nothing has changed and nothing will change has Nvidia or Radeon dropped there prices since the 7xxx series launched well over a month ago no and don't hold your breath thinking Kelper will force pricing down it wont happen cause that's not how it works.
 

tului

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I'm actually wondering if since I've read, at h-ocp, that one of the six pin connectors actually has leads on the board for an 8 pin. I'm thinking maybe a BIOS flash and putting voltage on those pins might unlock these early cards. Sort of like the Geforce 465s that were just BIOS crippled 470s.
 

Lokster1

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I guess if you have the money to throw at the newest generation every release, good for you. I know my pocket book loves the fact I'm a generation behind =D
 

zloginet

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[citation][nom]stm1185[/nom]It is not pretty awesome that your next gen part that you priced slightly below the competitors flagship last gen part outperforms it in some tests. That is to be excepted. The 7950 is not against a gtx 570, its against a gtx670 which is not out yet, and will probably be replaced around the same price point as a 570 with a large performance increase over it, making buying a $450 7950 retarded; as such the 7950 will then get dropped to where the 6950 is now to be competitive.Anyone who buys a 7950 before AMD at $450 is a chump. 30%+ price drop as soon as Nvidia releases its next gen.[/citation]

How can something be against something if it isn't out... You do realize that the 8 series is around the corner for AMD and it has a few tricks of new 7 series skus in the tank for the mighty nvidia boys when they release the 6 series...

either way, as we stand, nvidia is 6 months behind amd
 
[citation][nom]zloginet[/nom]How can something be against something if it isn't out... You do realize that the 8 series is around the corner for AMD and it has a few tricks of new 7 series skus in the tank for the mighty nvidia boys when they release the 6 series...either way, as we stand, nvidia is 6 months behind amd[/citation]

The 8000 Radeons are around the corner when the 7000s aren't close to be all in the market? That seems pretty unlikely to me.

Also, how is Nvidia 6 months behind AMD? Nvidia often releases their next generation after AMD and even then they aren't that far behind yet. Nvidia will probably get something in the market within a month or two, I've read that the end of February is time frame to watch.
 

Gordon Freeman

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[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]The 8000 Radeons are around the corner when the 7000s aren't close to be all in the market? That seems pretty unlikely to me.Also, how is Nvidia 6 months behind AMD? Nvidia often releases their next generation after AMD and even then they aren't that far behind yet. Nvidia will probably get something in the market within a month or two, I've read that the end of February is time frame to watch.[/citation]
Nvidia will be rushing to market ala circa GTX 480 remember how that was Nvidias biggest flop and then they had to re release the GTX 480 all fixed up and the way it should have been from day 1 in the form of GTX 580 all because they rushed to market just like they are doing now LOL.
 
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@...I DO celebrate and find it ironic that AMDs 7950 is as flag-shippy whoop-ass as Nvidia's 7950 was in its day!

Hope this last longer than the prior one(1 or 2 year max lifespan.)
 
[citation][nom]Gordon Freeman[/nom]Nvidia will be rushing to market ala circa GTX 480 remember how that was Nvidias biggest flop and then they had to re release the GTX 480 all fixed up and the way it should have been from day 1 in the form of GTX 580 all because they rushed to market just like they are doing now LOL.[/citation]

Do you have proof that Nvidia will make another mistake like the GTX 480? They learned their lesson with the GTX 580 so there's no good reason for them to have a bad GTX 680. Of course, there doesn't need to be a good reason for a screw-up, but as of yet I'm willing to give Nvidia the benefit of the doubt.

However, I'll also assume that Nvidia will give it a horrible price for it's performance. Hopefully, it will be priced at or below the 7970's current prices instead of going even higher. It would be nice to see those 7900 cards drop down to reasonable prices and that will probably happen once they have more competition.
 

Gordon Freeman

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[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Do you have proof that Nvidia will make another mistake like the GTX 480? They learned their lesson with the GTX 580 so there's no good reason for them to have a bad GTX 680. Of course, there doesn't need to be a good reason for a screw-up, but as of yet I'm willing to give Nvidia the benefit of the doubt.However, I'll also assume that Nvidia will give it a horrible price for it's performance. Hopefully, it will be priced at or below the 7970's current prices instead of going even higher. It would be nice to see those 7900 cards drop down to reasonable prices and that will probably happen once they have more competition.[/citation]
Nvidia is rolling back there release date which means that they are ahead of scheduled or the 7xxx being out is putting the pressure on nvidia same thing happened with 480/470 series. I predict and can confidently say that the next Nvidia flagship single GPU will be in excess of $650 and most likely marked up to $700 or more by retailers. GTX 570 SLI is and still will be the best setup to have from Nvidia for at leased the next year after Nvdia releases GTX 6xx.
 
[citation][nom]Gordon Freeman[/nom]Nvidia is rolling back there release date which means that they are ahead of scheduled or the 7xxx being out is putting the pressure on nvidia same thing happened with 480/470 series. I predict and can confidently say that the next Nvidia flagship single GPU will be in excess of $650 and most likely marked up to $700 or more by retailers. GTX 570 SLI is and still will be the best setup to have from Nvidia for at leased the next year after Nvdia releases GTX 6xx.[/citation]

We'll have to wait and see. I can't disagree with your price prediction but I'm not sure about Nvidia screwing up the GTX 680 like they did with the 480. I'll agree about GTX 570 SLI being the best Nvidia setup with price in mind but I'd still prefer multiple 6950s instead.
 

Gordon Freeman

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[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]We'll have to wait and see. I can't disagree with your price prediction but I'm not sure about Nvidia screwing up the GTX 680 like they did with the 480. I'll agree about GTX 570 SLI being the best Nvidia setup with price in mind but I'd still prefer multiple 6950s instead.[/citation]
One things for sure we can count on nvidia to screw up the pricing that's already one definitely consistent mar against them which leaves Nvidia virtually no room to make any other mistakes cause Radeon is on top of there game. That being said it brings me to my next point more performance is all good albeit a bit unnecessary right now so what Nvidia needs to accomplish is a new performance value sector because we already have 560ti, 6950, 6870, 6850 that all offer ample performance and value with CF and SLI being an additional bonus factor that put today's mid range at or above tomorrows stupidly overpriced high end.
 
[citation][nom]Gordon Freeman[/nom]One things for sure we can count on nvidia to screw up the pricing that's already one definitely consistent mar against them which leaves Nvidia virtually no room to make any other mistakes cause Radeon is on top of there game. That being said it brings me to my next point more performance is all good albeit a bit unnecessary right now so what Nvidia needs to accomplish is a new performance value sector because we already have 560ti, 6950, 6870, 6850 that all offer ample performance and value with CF and SLI being an additional bonus factor that put today's mid range at or above tomorrows stupidly overpriced high end.[/citation]

Well said. A 560 ti or 6950 can play pretty much everything at 1080p and max settings very well, everything more expensive is for higher resolutions. Two 6950s or 560 TIs can play pretty much everything at 2560x1440 at max settings or 3D 1080p at max settings. Three 6950s are good for 5760x1080. Anything more than that is much harder to justify and since the 6950 and 560 TI can be had below $200 it is even more difficult to justify the price increase to get faster cards. Even if you want more performance, two 6970s or 570s or three 6970s is really the most worth getting, albeit they is still overpriced for their performance compared to the 560 ti/6950.

Anything better than that is more future proofing than anything. There can be good reason, less frequent upgrades, but I don't think it's enough to justify the prices.

It's even less reasonable than Intel's EE processors. Over $1000 for a CPU that won't beat $200-$300 processors in gaming? Seriously? Then there's the fact that there are slightly slower yet much cheaper versions of the EEs out right now. Need a six core X58 setup? i7-970 instead of 980X/990X. Need a six core X78 setup? i7-3930K instead of i7-3960X. You save hundreds of dollars by sacrificing only a few percent of the performance.
 
Extremely impressed but of course I'll have to stick with my 580s as its a pretty lateral move. If I was in the market right now for some high-end graphics, I'd be all over those 7950s/7970s like white on rice.
 

lmpi16

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Whats the point of comming new gpus every year ??? At best they make the same games since 2007 in level of details and realism . And the computer nerds buy this shits allthough their gpus from 2009 can handle any game at 30 fps - thats it you don't need more than 30 fps . You won't notice difference between 35 fps an 205 fps . I am amased and amused how amd and radeon sells out their new gpus for ridiculous price every year without any benefit for the costumer . You see here Crysis 6970 - 50 fps , the new 7970 - 80 fps and "Yeah lets buy this monster " :D
 
[citation][nom]lmpi16[/nom]Whats the point of comming new gpus every year ??? At best they make the same games since 2007 in level of details and realism . And the computer nerds buy this shits allthough their gpus from 2009 can handle any game at 30 fps - thats it you don't need more than 30 fps . You won't notice difference between 35 fps an 205 fps . I am amased and amused how amd and radeon sells out their new gpus for ridiculous price every year without any benefit for the costumer . You see here Crysis 6970 - 50 fps , the new 7970 - 80 fps and "Yeah lets buy this monster "[/citation]

Some people (such as me) can tell the difference between 35FPS and 60FPS, especially in high-motion games like a first person shooter. Besides that, games HAVE evolved with quality settings. The 6970 is great for 19200x1200 gaming, but at 2560x1440 or 24560x1600 it shows weakness in some games, unlike the 7970.

Of course, the higher you go on the video card performance spectrum, the lower the value. For example, three Radeon 6770s in triple crossfire cost about $230-$260, but they match up with the much higher end GTX 580 and Radeon 7950 in gaming performance very well. Triple crossfire Radeon 6870s can be done for about the same price as the cheaper 7970s, but is considerably faster as well.

Just the difference between a 6950 and 6970 can be over $100 (~220 vs. ~320 is the prices of the cheaper models) and that's about a 50% difference, yet their performance is actually pretty similar. Up the 6950 to the 6970's clock frequencies and they are pretty much indistinguishable while gaming, never reaching more than a few percent apart. The same is true with the 7950 and 7970.

The Radeon 4870X2 used to sell for over $400 or $500 USD, but it is similar in performance to the 6970 that now sells for only 60-75% of the 4870X2's price. The 6970 is also twice as fast per GPU, most certainly not the same performance as previous generations. If you want to try a 2009 video card for Eyefinity 5760x1080 in the newest games then go ahead, but don't complain to us when it isn't playable even at medium or high settings.

Video cards are supposed to be able to last a couple years or so. High end GPUs from 2009 are still decent GPUs today, but don't expect the tech world to double in performance every year because that doesn't happen. The Radeon 5870, the best single GPU card from AMD's 2009 lineup, is still a good card, as good as a Radeon 6950, but going above 1080p with the newest games at maxed out settings isn't going to get you 60FPS... 60 is the basic number used to define a top end frame rate, it is almost certain to give you smooth game play, unless you have micro-stuttering or similar problems going on. Trying older cards with resolutions above 1080p doesn't go as well as it does with the faster, modern cards.

Some new games demand the best video cards to give the best experience. Even the mighty Radeon 5970 or GTX 580 might not be enough for some games set up with everything maxed out. Thinking about 3D gaming? Forget it unless you have at lest a $400 setup with modern cards, if not better to get a better experience because it takes twice as much video card performance as regular 2D gaming. The best experiences demand the newest, faster cards and that's a fact. Saying that a two or three year old video cad can handle everything out there right now is completely wrong. Some of the older cards can handle most of the newest games at great settings, but not the best, sometimes not even close.

Even the newest cards can need dual GPU or better setups for some things. 3D 1080p is best done with something like Crossfire Radeon 6950 or an SLI GTX 560 TI setup. Dual 5870s should be able to handle it too, same with dual GTX 470s, but those are HIGH END cards, they would have cost you more for the same performance before than they would now. They also had higher prices when they came out than comparable cards do now, and we have even better cards to take their former price points. Graphics cards, like all other technologies, evolves over time, whether you acknowledge this or not is up to you. Keep denying it if you want, but that won't make you correct.
 
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Its the name of the game... as soon as you buy it - it is out of date. If you've been around computers for awhile you should know this. It's worse than buying a new car as the value drops so fast - you could technically just throw it away then go buy a new one.

But.. the junkies out there (me) don't mind- I will use what I have until it's time to upgrade again!
 
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