News AMD RDNA-Infused Samsung SoC Benchmarks Obliterate Galaxy S20 Graphics

bit_user

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The irony is that the group responsible for the Adreno GPUs was once part of ATI, and later spun off by AMD (hint: Adreno is an anagram of Radeon). So, it's interesting to see parts of the former ATI now competing directly with each other.


In Boxborough, Massachusetts, both AMD and Qualcomm even occupy different floors of the same building, which I've heard was legacy from that era.
 

watzupken

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WIth AMD back in the SOC graphics space, I think we can expect some exciting products. SOC graphics are in need of a proper refresh. After so many years, despite the supposed improvements in SOC GPUs, the Nvidia Maxwell GPU on the Tegra is still the best out there. However despite being the best, it is not suited for mobile phone usage due to the high power requirements. Adreno from Qualcomm was previously a Radeon product, but considering Qualcomm have only been refining it over the years, its really just evolutionary, and not something built from scratch.
 

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The irony is that the group responsible for the Adreno GPUs was once part of ATI, and later spun off by AMD (hint: Adreno is an anagram of Radeon). So, it's interesting to see parts of the former ATI now competing directly with each other.


In Boxborough, Massachusetts, both AMD and Qualcomm even occupy different floors of the same building, which I've heard was legacy from that era.
I love a good anagram - like Senator and Treason. Did not know about the office space situation -
Knowing Samsung's history - I really don't necessarily see it ever seeing the light of day in an actual product - All of my cellphones are way overkill for that I use them for - interesting but I don't need that amt of graphics power for text and voice calls - anything past my Galaxy S5 is overkill - esp my Pixel 4XL.
 

bit_user

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WIth AMD back in the SOC graphics space, I think we can expect some exciting products.
Kind of. There's a partnership agreement between AMD and Samsung, but it's not entirely clear what's the nature of the partnership. The point is that it's only Samsung using RDNA. I don't expect to see it popping up in other SoCs, any time soon.

SOC graphics are in need of a proper refresh.
It's not like Adreno is the only game in town. Over the years, ARM and Imagination have continued forging ahead, advancing their GPU architectures.

After so many years, despite the supposed improvements in SOC GPUs, the Nvidia Maxwell GPU on the Tegra is still the best out there. However despite being the best, it is not suited for mobile phone usage due to the high power requirements.
They haven't been in the cell phone game for like a decade. It's a little unfair to compare Tegra X1/X2 with cell phone SoCs because, as you rightly point out, its power consumption puts it well out of the cell phone arena. So, apples vs. oranges.

With that said, we should consider that the platform they're benchmarking could be a tablet or a chromebook. It's not necessarily a cell phone.
 

bit_user

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Senator and Treason
Oh, what a delightful example!

Did not know about the office space situation
I'm sure they're disjoint, but you can check it out on Google maps. I know at least some of those working in the respective offices are in the GPU divisions.

Knowing Samsung's history - I really don't necessarily see it ever seeing the light of day in an actual product
That's a weird thing to say. Why?

They had an internal GPU effort they killed off, in favor of licensing RDNA. They need some GPU, so it looks like they'd rather license it from AMD than Qualcomm or ARM.

Samsung also killed off their internal CPU core design team, BTW.
 
WIth AMD back in the SOC graphics space, I think we can expect some exciting products. SOC graphics are in need of a proper refresh. After so many years, despite the supposed improvements in SOC GPUs, the Nvidia Maxwell GPU on the Tegra is still the best out there. However despite being the best, it is not suited for mobile phone usage due to the high power requirements. Adreno from Qualcomm was previously a Radeon product, but considering Qualcomm have only been refining it over the years, its really just evolutionary, and not something built from scratch.
Ummm... back in the SoC space? I mean they’ve been doing them in the Xbone and PS4 for nearly 10 years now...

Depends on the wattage of the parts tbh. A good benchmark is great but how it performance inside a device is another question entirely.
 

bit_user

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Ummm... back in the SoC space? I mean they’ve been doing them in the Xbone and PS4 for nearly 10 years now...
I think the point was mobile SoCs (i.e. phone/tablet). Otherwise, you might even broaden out to talk about EPYC as a SoC, since it lacks a southbridge.

Depends on the wattage of the parts tbh. A good benchmark is great but how it performance inside a device is another question entirely.
Yeah, and for phones, thermal management is a key factor.
 
I think the point was mobile SoCs (i.e. phone/tablet). Otherwise, you might even broaden out to talk about EPYC as a SoC, since it lacks a southbridge.


Yeah, and for phones, thermal management is a key factor.
Was being pedantic ;)

Interested to see what it yeilds tbh. RDNA wasn’t exactly power sipping. Expecting this to be for larger devices if the benchmarks are true with a cut down version for phones maybe though I don’t see Qualcomm allowing that in their SoCs and Exynos isn’t exactly... well up to snuff. Could be a Dex based tablet/laptop line, that could be fun.
 
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bit_user

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I don’t see Qualcomm allowing that in their SoCs and Exynos isn’t exactly... well up to snuff. Could be a Dex based tablet/laptop line, that could be fun.
As I mentioned, Samsung killed off its internal ARM core design team. So, future Exynos chips will presumably have off-the-shelf ARM cores + RDNA GPUs.

I don't know how much customization Qualcomm is even doing of the cores in their SoCs, any more. In fact, the only ones still designing their own mobile ARM cores from scratch is Apple. So, it shouldnt be a big loss for Samsung to switch from Qualcomm Snapdragons to using Exynos SoCs with stock ARM cores. I guess the idea behind using RNDA could be more about cost savings vs. Mali, than to gain a huge performance advantage. I'm skeptical of just how well RDNA scales down to ultra-low power. I guess we'll see.

BTW, it'd be crazy if they're actually using HBM2. That could go a long ways towards explaining the performance numbers. I thought it would be embraced for mobile, years ago.
 
As I mentioned, Samsung killed off its internal ARM core design team. So, future Exynos chips will presumably have off-the-shelf ARM cores + RDNA GPUs.

I don't know how much customization Qualcomm is even doing of the cores in their SoCs, any more. In fact, the only ones still designing their own mobile ARM cores from scratch is Apple. So, it shouldnt be a big loss for Samsung to switch from Qualcomm Snapdragons to using Exynos SoCs with stock ARM cores. I guess the idea behind using RNDA could be more about cost savings vs. Mali, than to gain a huge performance advantage. I'm skeptical of just how well RDNA scales down to ultra-low power. I guess we'll see.

BTW, it'd be crazy if they're actually using HBM2. That could go a long ways towards explaining the performance numbers. I thought it would be embraced for mobile, years ago.
Think the issue with HBM2 was cost. I mean Vega margins were stupidly thin because of HBM2. What if Samsung did tablets and Dex stuff with custom Zen 4000 chips and a RDNA2 iGPU? Or even phones if it can be scaled well enough.
 

bit_user

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Think the issue with HBM2 was cost.
Could be, but you'd only need one stack of it, and it seems to me that flagship phones have the margins to support it.

What if Samsung did tablets and Dex stuff with custom Zen 4000 chips and a RDNA2 iGPU? Or even phones if it can be scaled well enough.
What's "Dex"?

I dunno about any x86, in phones. As Intel seemed to discover, the shortcomings of the ISA really seem to limit perf/W, as you try to scale down the W.

People seem to forget that AMD already dipped its toe in the ARM pool, with an 8-core A57-based server chip. Jim Keller even designed a custom ARM core that never saw the light of day, but this would seem to be a recognition by AMD that the days of x86 are numbered.
 
Could be, but you'd only need one stack of it, and it seems to me that flagship phones have the margins to support it.


What's "Dex"?

I dunno about any x86, in phones. As Intel seemed to discover, the shortcomings of the ISA really seem to limit perf/W, as you try to scale down the W.

People seem to forget that AMD already dipped its toe in the ARM pool, with an 8-core A57-based server chip. Jim Keller even designed a custom ARM core that never saw the light of day, but this would seem to be a recognition by AMD that the days of x86 are numbered.
Dex is Samsung’s desktop thing. Like you plug your phone into a dock and it switches to a desktop like environment, I think they even have a like laptop with no guts just keyboard, trackpad and IO, you just plug the phone in.

*Wasnt them was a third party
 

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