News AMD Ryzen Z1 Packs Zen 4 and Zen 4c Cores: CPUID Dump

[Admin]

New CPUID Dump Shows AMD's Ryzen Z1 non-Extreme as Phoenix 2 APU with two Zen 4 and four Zen 4c cores.

AMD Ryzen Z1 Packs Zen 4 and Zen 4c Cores: CPUID Dump : Read more

 

[setx]

Calling Zen4c cores "energy-efficient" is an insult: Zen4 cores are probably as efficient as Zen4c with the same voltage and frequency.

Zen4c are not the dumb Intel cores that press needs to use euphemisms for – they are just compact Zen4 that trade die area for max frequencies.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

Calling Zen4c cores "energy-efficient" is an insult: Zen4 cores are probably as efficient as Zen4c with the same voltage and frequency.

Zen4c are not the dumb Intel cores that press needs to use euphemisms for – they are just compact Zen4 that trade die area for max frequencies.

Erm, no. They trade die area for... DIE AREA! There's no indications that Zen 4c clocks as good as or better than Zen 4. They're just smaller and trade raw performance for a smaller size, and presumably efficiency (power). AMD's specs pages on both the Z1 and Z1 Extreme show the latter clocks higher, but both have the same power range. We'll need more testing of the hardware to figure out exactly what Zen 4c does well and where Zen 4 is faster.

 

[tesjo1]

I reserveve comment on 4c, sorry.
I have a work provided Intel desktop 13700, and am far better off disabling 8 ecores.

But my main issue in this space, is where are slim efficient 7840u LAPTOPS. Manufacturers can't get away from hs plus dgpu.

 

[setx]

There's no indications that Zen 4c clocks as good as or better than Zen 4. They're just smaller and trade raw performance for a smaller size, and presumably efficiency (power).

You'd better read about the topic you are writing about...
Zen4c are Zen4 cores made with dense library: lower max clocks but less die area (maybe also cut cache). Efficiency should be pretty much the same as it's the same core, just without very inefficient range of max clocks of Zen4.

Also, there are already tests of Zen4c...

 

[hotaru.hino]

I have a work provided Intel desktop 13700, and am far better off disabling 8 ecores.

And do you actually get better performance or is this just placebo?

 

[tesjo1]

Sorry mistype. I run some parallel codes and VMs. Simple timings tell me what I need to know. I don't have affinity control on that machine, but why should one need to do so.

 

[hotaru.hino]

That's not really an answer, but okay.

 

[Amdlova]

People don't see or don't want to see the E-cores changed the 12700T 8P 4E for the 13500T 6P 8E.
On the system side the E-core works good with small task "kernel or other system things". Draw side if you don't change your power settings the system become slow because the E-cores and P-cores don't boost all the time and make The Dpc a little High. I will put two pics same system with only change the power settings.
Balanced Power to High power, make your own conclusions.

https://ibb.co/VH7XPS1 (balanced power)
https://ibb.co/Dkh1SzY (high power)

 

[usertests]

Calling Zen4c cores "energy-efficient" is an insult: Zen4 cores are probably as efficient as Zen4c with the same voltage and frequency.

Erm, no. They trade die area for... DIE AREA! There's no indications that Zen 4c clocks as good as or better than Zen 4. They're just smaller and trade raw performance for a smaller size, and presumably efficiency (power). AMD's specs pages on both the Z1 and Z1 Extreme show the latter clocks higher, but both have the same power range. We'll need more testing of the hardware to figure out exactly what Zen 4c does well and where Zen 4 is faster.

https://www.tsmc.com/english/news-events/blog-article-20220616

If AMD starts using "FinFlex" for future hybrid/heterogeneous monolithic APUs, then they could tune the "c" cores to have greater efficiency in a more compact die area, and the normal cores to hit higher clocks with less efficiency and bigger die area.

I don't think they are doing that for Phoenix 2, and they could even be using the primary 8-core Phoenix die to make some Phoenix 2 chips.

 

[KraakBal]

Calling Zen4c cores "energy-efficient" is an insult: Zen4 cores are probably as efficient as Zen4c with the same voltage and frequency.

Zen4c are not the dumb Intel cores that press needs to use euphemisms for – they are just compact Zen4 that trade die area for max frequencies.

They trade die area (mostly cache) AND some frequency for having more cores in the same chip. Some workloads prefer that. Most users won't notice which one they would be using probably

 

[hotaru.hino]

People don't see or don't want to see the E-cores changed the 12700T 8P 4E for the 13500T 6P 8E.
On the system side the E-core works good with small task "kernel or other system things". Draw side if you don't change your power settings the system become slow because the E-cores and P-cores don't boost all the time and make The Dpc a little High. I will put two pics same system with only change the power settings.
Balanced Power to High power, make your own conclusions.

https://ibb.co/VH7XPS1 (balanced power)
https://ibb.co/Dkh1SzY (high power)

Do these actually make a practical difference?

 

[Amdlova]

Do these actually make a practical difference?

In general performance 10 15% system feel it's likely clogged carburetor to a fine tunned

 

[salgado18]

Erm, no. They trade die area for... DIE AREA! There's no indications that Zen 4c clocks as good as or better than Zen 4. They're just smaller and trade raw performance for a smaller size, and presumably efficiency (power). AMD's specs pages on both the Z1 and Z1 Extreme show the latter clocks higher, but both have the same power range. We'll need more testing of the hardware to figure out exactly what Zen 4c does well and where Zen 4 is faster.

Oh look, I found a news piece where an AMD representative answers this question:

AMD Z1 Chips in Asus ROG Ally Can Sip as Little as 9W

But otherwise it looks a lot like the Ryzen 7040U

www.tomshardware.com

 

[TerryLaze]

Calling Zen4c cores "energy-efficient" is an insult: Zen4 cores are probably as efficient as Zen4c with the same voltage and frequency.

But Zen4 cores CAN'T run on lower volts and CAN'T run at lower clocks then what the lowest for them is now, if they could then AMD wouldn't have to bother with making the zen4c variant in the first place.

 

[setx]

But Zen4 cores CAN'T run on lower volts and CAN'T run at lower clocks then what the lowest for them is now, if they could then AMD wouldn't have to bother with making the zen4c variant in the first place.

Obviously any core can't run on lower volts/clocks than what is the lowest for them, lol.

Zen4c is much smaller in die area with practically the same IPC. AMD can put 1.5-2x the number of cores on the same crystal... but that doesn't impress you, right?

 

[TerryLaze]

Obviously any core can't run on lower volts/clocks than what is the lowest for them, lol.

Zen4c is much smaller in die area with practically the same IPC. AMD can put 1.5-2x the number of cores on the same crystal... but that doesn't impress you, right?

What does being impressed have to do with anything?!
For ZEN 4 to be as efficient as ZEN 4c it would have to be able to run at lower volts/clocks, it can't so it ain't.

 

[setx]

For ZEN 4 to be as efficient as ZEN 4c it would have to be able to run at lower volts/clocks, it can't so it ain't.

So, what is the difference of lowest voltages/clocks/power and efficiency? Numbers, please.

Zen4 already scales well with clocks. Zen4c is all about compute density, not about being unable to feed good cores like Intel.